Reloading powder question

[imagunnut]

To the OP, we all feel your pain. There has been more (meaning I at least SEE some), at the gun shows in Vegas. I picked up some Titegroup and there were some vendors selling pull down powder. LGS has some good powders but not the one's in HIGH demand like HP38/W231, Power Pistol etc. so there's hope, just gotta be patient. Don't be like me and jump on kegs of 700x on GunBroker, paid way too much and it meters so-so. I actually like the powder in my 9mm so I lucked out.

I like extreme bullets, Berry's has a RNHB thicker plate bullet for hotter loads. Been experimenting with these in my AR9, works great and helps to cycle the rifle really smooth in fun mode.

I suggest buying small pistol primers when you can as well. The suppliers I've been watching seem to be running out of CCI 500, and the gun show ammo guys had very little this past weekend. January shows, they had pallet loads at really great prices. Still kicking myself for not buying any.

Lot's of rifle available though. Like you, I've been doing more workups for rifle (.223) until pistol powder loosens up. Still though, I won't pass a pound or two of powders like Tac or 335, and a box of primers when I see it.

Are you in central Texas or close? I will sell you some of my powder at my cost, to help you out (avg like $18/pound), if you're close and can pick it up.

That is a really nice price, even for 8lb keg rate. Current LGS prices are at $28-32/lb. What a nice guy!
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[steven6282]

You did well Steven. That gives you enough powder to get underway with lots of projects; while, keeping an eye out for more powder at reasonable prices. You were in the situation you were in, and made your decision based on it.

So what's your first project?

I haven't decided yet if I'm going to try and find a good load for my 9mm or 308 first. Probably the 9mm. I shoot 9mm with an old Ruger P95 and my carry is a 9mm S&W Shield. It'll probably be easier to start with because I'm a member at an indoor 25 yard range about 15 minutes from my house, so easier to load up some rounds and head out to the range and see how they do. The 308 though, it's a 45 minute drive to a good outdoor range to test with it. So I'll probably start off with the 9mm to get a good feel for reloading before I do some variety of 308 rounds to take and try out in a single trip on the 308.

[the led farmer]

Don't make too many of a test, 5-10 is plenty for pistol and 3-5 for rifle. Nothing worse than thinking you loading a batch only and find out it doesn't cycle the action, eject properly etc etc and have to pull 100 rounds

[Worc]

I like HP-38/231 the best for loading 115 plated bullets with CCI 500 primers. I like Bullseye second best even though it's usually a little cheaper. I get over 1,500 rounds per pound with these powders. I just hung up the phone from a local dealer who is holding an 8 pounder of HP-38 for me. I have a 1,000 115 gr plated bullets from Everglades on the way to try out. If they work out well, I'll order them in the 4K pack. I've used 115 gr plated bullets from Berry's, Rainier, and FMP and they all seemed to shoot about the same. Right now Everglades looks to be the least expensive since they have free shipping.

[steven6282]

Ok, well finally taking my first crack at loading some stuff tonight, and I have to say I'm surprised by how inaccurate everything is. I thought this stuff was going to be a lot more precise and consistent especially powder measures after all the talk from everyone to step up slowly and such.

I haven't loaded one full round yet because I'm not happy with the results I'm getting from powder feeding. Trying to set up for 9mm, I got all my dies set up, with one test case I set my bullet seat so that I had COL of 1.120 (using Berry's plated bullets and according to their website they reocmmend a max of 1.130). Since every single case I picked up and measured had a different length (but all under the maximum length) I'm hoping this 1.120 seat depth test will give me enough error room to stay under 1.130.

Then I discovered that the Frankferd arsenal bullet puller I bought seems about useless. I see youtube videos of it work but on two test bullets I did with no primer or powder just to test seating, I couldn't get either to come back out no matter how hard I hit a piece of wood with this thing.

Whatever chalk 2 bullets and casings up to configuration, moving on I start trying to set up the powder throw. I take an empty casing tare my digital scale with it, read the data sheet and see that .40 disc hole is supposed to throw 4.3, .43 disc hole is supposed to throw 4.6. Lead bullet 115 gr data for Win 231 is listed as 4.1 to 4.7, I was going to start off at 4.2 and make some at a variety of grains up to 4.6.. so much for that idea, the damn powder measure isn't precise enough for that. With the .40 disc hole I'm getting throws anywhere from 4.0 to 4.3 grains. Most of them at 4.1 / 4.2 though. I confirmed these weights on both the Lee perfect powder scale that came with the turret and the digital Frankford Arsenal scale that I got. The .43 disc hole did seem to throw around 4.6 more consistently, but it also through 4.9 once.

How are you supposed to take "small" steps up when you've only got two steps of precision inside your darn grain range. I was expecting to be able to control the powder weight down to the .1 grain with maybe an occasional .1 grain inaccuracy, not control it to .3 grain with a .3 grain inaccuracy lol.

Maybe this is where Lee's cheaper price comes in? I dunno since I have no experience with anything else. I'm debating going to the store tomorrow and buying an RCBS powder measure just to see if it is any more consistent or any better about precision adjustment.

[Colorado Redneck]

You may be like me--the more of this loading I do the more I learn. And after a few years you may look back on this time and think to yourself--"Wow--this is a lot more complicated than I thought it was!"

Seriously, I think all of us that hand load have a pretty steep learning curve at first. It will level off some, but I still learn new stuff after 10 years. And I do not consider myself a sage or guru---just a beginner with 10 years experience.

As to your powder choices, even though it is tempting, I wouldn't advise buying a whole bunch of rifle powder of any one kind. After you have worked up loads using different components you will develop preferences based on performance. It is hard during a "shortage" to resist buying a couple of 8 pound kegs to make sure you can indulge, but until you are sure you like any powder enough to invest several hundred dollars, I would wait. Like Machineguntony said, you will find supplies, you have to be diligent and keep checking the vendors. There is a reason there are lots of powders. They perform differently, meter differently, etc.

Have fun! And be vewy vewy careful!

[Nick_C_S]

I can only speak to my RCBS Uniflow with the small cylinder. I have been loading for 30 years, 9 months, and 6 days. It is the only powder hopper I've ever used, so I have nothing to compare it against. But what I can tell you is that it consistently throws charges that vary <0.1gn with every powder I've ever used, except Unique.

When I load a 100 round batch, once I get the Uniflow calibrated for the right drop weight, I test the first three drops, followed by #20, #50, #80, & #99 and #100. They are always right on the money - as long as I've done my part.

RCBS Uniflow. I have no need or desire to own anything else.

[the led farmer]

Don't get frustrated! You're learning the press and the functions of reloading, it's a learning curve but not a steep one.

First, whack the bullet puller on concrete, wood gives too much, don't hold back either, whack that sucker as hard as you can.

The length of the case doesn't matter as much as the oal, just more (or less) of the bullet will be in the case. Just load to the oal listed in the reference.

Powder measure: consistency is the key for best results. So try these things:

1)DO rotate the turret completely around (up and down with the lever each and every time) using the same amount of force each and every time. The harder you bump it the more your charge will weigh. DON'T leave the turret under the powder thrower and check charges one after the other you get one weight, when you rotate the turret the powder settles more in the disk and you get a different weight. So rotate all the way around the same way each and every time.
2) keep the powder hopper at a consistent level. It's like head pressure in a water tank, the higher the water level the more pressure is exerted at the opening. Powder is the same. Make a simple baffle to keep the powder consistent. I use a rolled up piece of paper in the shape of a cone so the bottom of the funnel is about 3/4 of an inch from the bottom of hopper.

3) powder density and weight vary from lot to lot. The powder in your hopper is not the same lot as the one tested and listed in the manual. You will need to experiment with a different size cavity until you find the right one. Then use the above techniques to find the charge you want.

Winchester 231 should meter like water, so before you throw a bunch of money into a new powder measure give these techniques a whirl and see how you do and ask questions. We are here to help

[Nick_C_S]

the led farmer: ^^ Good advice. ^^

[steven6282]

Well, I made 3 sets of 10 to try out tomorrow (I might do all 10 of each in one gun or try 5 in each of my two 9mm, dunno yet). Ran out of time tonight to make more hehe. Made a set at 4.2 grains with 1.120 OAL and a set at 4.6 grains with 1.120 OAL, but then I got to looking and I think I misread Berry's site, I don't think 1.130 is the maximum but just the recommended. According to the books the max is 1.169 and the min OAL for what I was working with is 1.110. So I should be safe as I'm above the minimum but just to try it out I made another set at 4.6 grains with a 1.140 OAL. I'll compare those with some ammo that I have from Freedom Munitions tomorrow night and see how they do.

[McCarthy]

Ok, well finally taking my first crack at loading some stuff tonight, and I have to say I'm surprised by how inaccurate everything is. I thought this stuff was going to be a lot more precise and consistent especially powder measures after all the talk from everyone to step up slowly and such.

I haven't loaded one full round yet because I'm not happy with the results I'm getting from powder feeding. Trying to set up for 9mm, I got all my dies set up, with one test case I set my bullet seat so that I had COL of 1.120 (using Berry's plated bullets and according to their website they reocmmend a max of 1.130). Since every single case I picked up and measured had a different length (but all under the maximum length) I'm hoping this 1.120 seat depth test will give me enough error room to stay under 1.130.

Then I discovered that the Frankferd arsenal bullet puller I bought seems about useless. I see youtube videos of it work but on two test bullets I did with no primer or powder just to test seating, I couldn't get either to come back out no matter how hard I hit a piece of wood with this thing.

Whatever chalk 2 bullets and casings up to configuration, moving on I start trying to set up the powder throw. I take an empty casing tare my digital scale with it, read the data sheet and see that .40 disc hole is supposed to throw 4.3, .43 disc hole is supposed to throw 4.6. Lead bullet 115 gr data for Win 231 is listed as 4.1 to 4.7, I was going to start off at 4.2 and make some at a variety of grains up to 4.6.. so much for that idea, the damn powder measure isn't precise enough for that. With the .40 disc hole I'm getting throws anywhere from 4.0 to 4.3 grains. Most of them at 4.1 / 4.2 though. I confirmed these weights on both the Lee perfect powder scale that came with the turret and the digital Frankford Arsenal scale that I got. The .43 disc hole did seem to throw around 4.6 more consistently, but it also through 4.9 once.

How are you supposed to take "small" steps up when you've only got two steps of precision inside your darn grain range. I was expecting to be able to control the powder weight down to the .1 grain with maybe an occasional .1 grain inaccuracy, not control it to .3 grain with a .3 grain inaccuracy lol.

Maybe this is where Lee's cheaper price comes in? I dunno since I have no experience with anything else. I'm debating going to the store tomorrow and buying an RCBS powder measure just to see if it is any more consistent or any better about precision adjustment.

WOW. I'm really glad I didn't buy into this Lee stuff. As an OCD plagued engineer I would have burned that powder measure. After I had shot it with some .500 hardcast!

Sorry.

[Worc]

I'm loading on a Lee progressive and use the #43 disk for 4.6 grains of 231/HP-38. My powder gets dropped very accurately with a 4.5 or 4.7 every now and again and I weigh about 10% of my loads before I seat the bullet.

If you want more adjustment with the Lee. It's not that hard to do with a screw in one of the disks in the next higher hole size that you would usually use. I my case and yours it would be the #4.6 hole.

[sawdustdad]

Led Farmer nailed it. Consistency in press operation is key to consistency in powder drops. My Square Deal is very consistent as long as I operate the handle the same way each time. That jiggles the powder hopper the same way each time, settles the powder in the measure the same way each time, etc. Same with my RCBS Uniflow. Tap the drum at the top, and at the bottom each time, with about the same force. Even drops stick powders pretty well.

Digital scales are a challenge. I like to use one for quick checks, but the zero wanders with temperature or air currents. Also, you can drop, say 4 or 10 charges and see what the total is and divide by the number of drops. That will tell you what the average is.

Shooting, I generally don't see any noticeable difference with .1 or .2 grains variances in pistol rounds as I don't load near the top and am not shooting for ultimate accuracy.

I think some variation (allowance) in charges is to be expected. Just recognize it and allow for it. If you want super accurate charges you'll have to trickle charge into a balance beam scale.