44 magnum

[Bucksnort1]

Recently, I posted a thread requesting load recipes for 44 mag, 245 grain CMJ (plated) bullets. One replied by saying there isn't much difference between a 240 grain and a 245 grain bullet and to use data for 240 grain but to start light. I did this and began with 6.0 grains of Unique. I shot them and have no pressure problems so I'm loading test rounds with 6.5 grains of Unique.

I found load data for a Lyman linotype 429421 cast bullet in 245 grains. Can anyone tell me something about linotype lead? I know what a linotype machine is so I'm thinking this lead may be a bit harder than regular lead.

Can I use the load data for the 429421, 245 grain bullet with the 245 CMJ bullet? The overall length for the 429 is longer than most 240 grain bullets.

[oldpapps]

Start by checking here:
http://www.rotometals.com/Bullet-Casting-Alloys-s/5.htm

This will give the percentages and a little bit of the uses of ' Linotype alloy '. Back when, printers would use single letters, cast from this metal, when 'setting type' for a printing job. When the 'type' was worn or flattened, it was melted down and cast into more 'letters'. The metal is very hard and would last several printings. For bullet use, it is too hard except for those needs where a great amount of pressure is used (the bullets don't oburate [the bullet's butt won't swells to seal the barrel] resulting in leading). I have also found it a bit on the brittle side and shattering sometimes occurs when a heavy/big/hard bone is hit. Mushrooming is not going to happen in most cases. I have also used 'babbit' metal, also too hard but what I was using did make a good mixer with soft lead.

I hope I have helped.

Enjoy,

OSOK

P.S., I have never bought metal from 'Rotometals'.

[totaldla]

6gr of Unique? Were you loading 44Minimum? Save money & time by throwing the bullets by hand

I'd tell you to buy a 22lr instead except that I know you can't get ammo.

[jeager106]

Quote:
6gr of Unique? Were you loading 44Minimum? Save money & time by throwing the bullets by hand

I'd tell you to buy a 22lr instead except that I know you can't get ammo.

Was thinking the same thing.

[mikld]

Nuttin' wrong with loading light. I've loaded 125 gr., .433" balls in my .44 Magnums, and it don't get much lighter than that. Middlin' accuracy, no recoil/report to speak of, tons of fun...

I have used cast lead load data for plated bullets, but Berry's recommends around mid-level for jacketed bullets as a guideline for their plated. I'm in no need of shooting plated bullets to Magnum velocities so cast data worked just fine. Most of my most accurate loads are far from max.

Linotype alloy is too hard, as it, for cast bullets, running about 22 BHN. I cut my linotype with stick on wheel weight alloy (or pure lead) to about 50-50 to get around 10-12 BHN which works quite well in all my handguns, and I shoot a lot of Lyman 429421 bullets.

[Bucksnort1]

Oldpapps, thanks for the information. I figured it would be hard lead, which is probably the reason the Lyman load data for this 245 grain linotype bullet is 9.8 grains of Unique and not 6.5 grains of Unique called for in my Speer book for the 240 grain wad cutter bullet. So my assumption here is that the load data for the Lyman is not safe for the plated CMJ bullet. Do you agree?

I've loaded some test rounds with the 245 grain CMJ with 6.5 grains of Unique. I went with 6.0 grains to be safe but I think 6.5 grains will be ok. I just want a little more "bang" out of this plinker CMJ round. I'm not loading any Lyman bullets.

[g.willikers]

it is too hard except for those needs where a great amount of pressure is used (the bullets don't oburate [the bullet's butt won't swell to seal the barrel] resulting in leading)

That's the key for shooting lead bullets.
The hardness required is relative to the velocity.
If the very mild load you are making results in barrel leading, it's due to the bullet alloy being too hard for the speed.

As to the question of whether to use lead bullet load data or jacketed data with plated bullets, it very much depends on the bullet.
Some plated bullets have a thicker coating and stronger adhesion to the lead core than others.
When in doubt, ask the bullet maker.

[spacecoast]

Anything safe with a lead bullet should be OK with a plated bullet, especially Berry's. I've taken a 225 grain lead bullet up to 10.5 grains of Unique without a problem so I think you should be fine anywhere around 9.5 grains or below.

Lighter loads of Unique are used in conjunction with wadcutters because the wadcutters go deeper into the case.

[oldpapps]

Re-entering the discussion.

First off, I have never loaded or knowingly shot a 'plated' bullet. That being acknowledged....

Loading is not an exact science. That is to say, all of everything is not going to be the same.

Select and clean and sort your brass. The degree that you sort the brass may be as little as 'only functional' to the extreme of weighing each case for uniformity. For pistols, I do try, just try, to separate by head stamp.

I use the same primers and powder, sometimes only the same lot of powder for a series.

Bullet weight is not all that big of deal as long as they are close to the same. What difference does being a little lighter or heavier make when working up a loading? Cast bullets will vary in weight depending upon what the alloy is made up of. As long as the needs to that loading are met, building the load will balance it all out.

Well now that you have determined that I am a haphazardness loader, I should further elaborate. I will keep it as simple as I can.

I currently have four loadings for the .44 Magnum.
They are:
My 'wimp' load - 240 grain cast lead over 5.6 grains of 231 and standard CCI large pistol primer for just light of 650 FPS - my granddaughters like this loading and I have been loading it for 39 years. I said 'wimp'. These are great for new shooters and to maintain proficiency with larger revolvers.
My heavy lead load - same 240 grain cast Keith type lead semi wad cutter and primers, only loaded with 2400 powder to about 1240 FPS (no leading and I know when they go off).
My jacketed load - 240 grain JHC loaded to 1250 FPS.
And my Powder Coated cast 240 cast Keith type SWC loaded to 1095 FPS.

The above listed cast lead bullets will run as light as 235 grains and as heavy as 248 grains. The key is that each loading run, except the 'wimp' loadings is worked up with any change in components. My 'wimp' load is very light and is listed. Other powders/charges are not listed. These are things that require adjustments for each weapon. I am loading for 3 different 44s and my heavy loads don't get shuffled between the three.

Back when I had a S&W Model 19 (.357 Mag) and I loaded several different loading looking for what 'little' bullets don't provide. I tried some of these loads in my Model 27 and Model 28. To my dismay, the cylinder on the smaller 'K' Frame Model 19 is longer than either of the larger 'N' Frame weapons. To point of this is you/we must load for the weapon and if other weapons may come into use, consider those needs.

My babbling has came to and end [for now].

Enjoy and load with care,

OSOK

[SHR970]

Anything safe with a lead bullet should be OK with a plated bullet, especially Berry's.

Except for bottom end target loads. You may get a stuck bullet.

So my assumption here is that the load data for the Lyman is not safe for the plated CMJ bullet. Do you agree?

No! The linotype loads are MORE appropriate than the Speer loads. The Speer lead bullets are a soft alloy that can't be driven too fast or you will lead the heck out of your barrel.

Please do a search on plated bullets; we've gone over this a multitude of times.

[spacecoast]

Except for bottom end target loads. You may get a stuck bullet.

Good point, I was thinking of the upper end of the velocity curve. Berry's generally recommends staying below 1200 fps, and there are guys who shoot lead quite a bit higher than that, but that's with a very good understanding of the relationship between bore diameter, bullet diameter and lead hardness.

[elrotundamundo]

Last year I worked up a load for Berry's 240 gr. flat point for my son's S&W 629, because he likes to shoot at the local indoor range and they don't allow exposed lead on either the base or the bearing surface of the bullet. I have loaded around 4000 rounds in the neighborhood of 1250 FPS from the 6" barrel, and they shoot extremely well. Due to the powder shortage I have used 3 different powders, depending on what I could get locally, starting with Herco, then 800X, and now CFE Pistol, which is currently available in abundance here, and does a great job. Hodgdon lists 12 grains with a Remington 2 1/2 primer behind a Nosler 240 JHP. For the Berry's, I use 11.5 grains of CFE Pistol with a CCI 300 primer. I started out with a light crimp because I didn't want to rupture the plating but found that we were getting bullets backing out of the case, so I increased the roll crimp until close inspection shows a slight indent on the bullet surface.

[GeauxTide]

With the bullets you mentioned, start at 8.0gr. 9.0 will give you 1050 and either load shoots as small as you can.

[Hook686]

The Alliant web site shows 7 grains of Unique for a 240 grain cast LSWC.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...33&bulletid=52

Starting 10% lower gives about 6.3 grains of Unique. Why would 6.5 grains not be safe ?

[MJFlores]

In my 629, I load 240 grain Berry's over 8 grains of HP-38. It's a mild load, but quite accurate.

[zxcvbob]

The Alliant web site shows 7 grains of Unique for a 240 grain cast LSWC.

http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...33&bulletid=52

Starting 10% lower gives about 6.3 grains of Unique. Why would 6.5 grains not be safe ?

Your reasoning is sound, but that load data is not. That is light for a .44 Special load. I don't know what Alliant was thinking; it even says cast bullet, so it's not like its for soft swaged Speer bullets.

[rclark]

Actually in .44Mag to make it 'simpler' --- any 240g - 260g SWC/hollow point/soft point style (Jacketed / Plated / lead) bullet is going to be 'safe' with 7 to 10 grains of Unique, Universal, or 20/28.... (The key is the volume remaining under the bullet when seated. If close, then good to go.... A full Wadcutter for example would NOT be in this catergory, as it seated way deeper into the case) . Your working with the low side of the pressure that the .44Mag can take. To duplicate the 'Skeeter' .44Spec load in .44Mag, you use 8.5g of Unique under the bullet. My general purpose load for .44Mag is 10g under lead SWC which is around 1100fps out of 6 1/2" barrel. Not a 'real' .44Mag load, but still enough 'umph' to feel it, yet shoot all day. The joy of reloading is you can 'pick' the load 'you' want to shoot, not what the manufacturer loads for you. And loading light - medium makes for a more pleasent shooting experience (and for those around you too if at the range!) .