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Old July 19, 1999, 09:20 AM   #1
Joe Portale
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For years, I have been told that a private citizen can not legal have more than 10,000 rounds of completed ammo. Additionally, this 10K rule applied to primers, with powder being limited to 10#.

I have looked around several governmental sites and could find nothing. (BATF, and AZLAW to mention a couple). Is this true or a wives tale. If it is true can someone point me to a reference?

Thanks loads (pun intended)



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Joe Portale
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Old July 19, 1999, 10:43 AM   #2
fal308
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I've never heard of such a law. Most handgun reloaders I know would be in trouble with laws such as these.
A few years ago during the primer scare many dealers would only sell 1000 primers to each customer but that was supply/demand, which is as it should be, and not governmental regulation.
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Old July 19, 1999, 11:00 AM   #3
Greg Melcer
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Over the past few years, much talk has been tossed around about legislation that would prevent an individual from possessing more than a certain amount of ammo, powder, primers, etc. I've also heard of legislation requiring an "arsenal license" to possess these materials. I think these rumors you've heard are a result of these discussions.

As far as I know, every time this type of legislation has been proposed (at least on a national level), it has been killed. Let's work to keep it that way.

Anyone else have any more info? Please share.
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Old July 19, 1999, 12:18 PM   #4
Mal H
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Joe, how many do you want? I think this bad info sometimes gets passed down in the oral tradition of anti-gun families and spills over to the pro side.

There is, however, some basis for this for commercial sites based on local fire ordinances. For instance, in a small town near my home, a reloading shop owner said he can only store 20 lbs. of powder on site due to fire regs. But, I don't think they had a reg for the maximum number of primers, he had 6 or 7 boxes of 1K for several different mfgs.
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Old July 19, 1999, 03:48 PM   #5
James K
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There is no Federal law or regulation limiting the quantity of ammunition, powder or primers in one's possession. There may be state or local laws. If searching, these are usually part of the Fire Code, not the criminal law. There are also states (like Maryland) that limit the amount of powder one can possess without a license and a storage magazine.

Jim

[This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited July 19, 1999).]
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Old July 19, 1999, 06:04 PM   #6
Cheapo
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You may own as many as you want, which is proper in a free society. "Need," "legitimate use," and having more [ammo making capability] than underpaid cops and underfunded military units are

all

irrelevant.

As noted above, note your fire code and storage regulations and behave accordingly.
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Old July 19, 1999, 08:21 PM   #7
Abe Normal
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Joe Portale,

The info below comes from a free load pamphlet by Accurate Arms.
They credit the info to NFPA 495-1992 (National Fire Protection Assoc.).


To keep it brief I've paraphrased:

10-3.3 Transport of more than 50 lbs. of propellants in a private vehicle is prohibited.

10-3.7 Powder intended for personal use of less than 20 lbs may be stored in original containers in residences. Powder quantities over 20 lbs but less than 50 lbs must be stored in a wooden box of 1" nominal thickness.

This is all I've ever run across as to how much in the way of powder & primers or ammo that you can have at your residence.

Perhaps this could be answered more fully by Mr. James Bardwell over at Tom Bowers board @ http://www.subguns.com/forums/wwwgeneral/

FWIW

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If everyone thought like me, I'd be a damn fool to think any different!

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Old July 20, 1999, 05:04 PM   #8
rangerco
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You are associating with the wrong people. As the post indicate, there is no "law" governing how many anything you can have YET. This is in Brady II, supposedly. (Al Gore's baby, no doubt.) BUT there are fire codes that often govern how much you SHOULD have in one place and how to store it... Some places these have the force of law, other places just advisory, ... The idea is to nail things down by asking the authorities annonomyously if possible, and then come as close to compliance as you can... Frequently these rules overlap and contradict each other. DON'T point this out, RATHER come as close as you care to and then hope you never need this contradiction as a defense in court. AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT. Make sure your kids don't go to school and just mention that dad was messing with his 20 pounds of gunpowder in the basement -- OR expect the swat team LOOKING --for 2,000 pounds-- WITH GUNS DRAWN. The other nasty is the "voluntary" inspections by fire inspectors going door to door. Just looking for combustibles that might spontaneously combust. You think they see "flammable solids" (gunpowder) and you won't go on a list??? silly goose.
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Old July 20, 1999, 07:40 PM   #9
Joe Portale
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Rangerco,

The only way to kill a wives tale is to ask questions. In the past, I assume that I reloaded like most folks. I'm out of 30/30, bop down to the gunshop and pick up a box of 100 primers and bullets. Out of 38? Well, let's go get a box of 500 and primers to match. Since my shooting and reloading has become a bigger part of my life, I wanted as much of the grey area cleared out as possible. I am buying in large quantities to save money and in some part time. I simple asked to see if I was missing something, somewhere. With all the flip-flopping of f the federal regulations, it's best not to take chances. This stuff is shipped under Haz-Mat rules, 500 or 50,000 primers, 2 pounds of powder or 2 tons, buddy if you mail order this stuff, your on a list.



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Joe Portale
Sonoran Sidewinder
Tucson, Arizina territory
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Old July 21, 1999, 12:16 AM   #10
Cheapo
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One (regrettable?) thing about asking "authorities" (I hate that term) about the standards:

A police officer or other enforcement dude/dudette's word doesn't help squat in defending what you thought was your compliance with the regulation.

The opinion sought must be from a more legal-type person, like the Attorney General of your state, the CHIEF of the fire department (maybe), or the City Attorney.

And since the best documentation is in writing, guess what?? You've just lost your anonymity.

Solution:

Borrow a friend's address (a friend who either is, or who has at least one offspring who is, aged 18-25, "become" a college student working on a research paper.

It's not forgery (felony--bye-bye guns!) because the inquiry letter has no "legal significance" like a check or a driver's license. It's not making a false report to an officer (misdemeanor) because you're not reporting any potential offenses. You're just exercising your First Amendment right to use a false statement to obtain reliable information.

Kinda like DEA agents pretending to really, really want to get enough nose candy to pay for their own habit.

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Old July 23, 1999, 10:13 AM   #11
nwgunman
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As a third generation re-loader in my late 40's I keep "a few" primers around. Lemme see here, small pistol, large pistol, small pistol magnum, large pistol magnum, small rifle, large rifle...you begin to see the picture, I hope. The arbitrary figure of "10,000" is absurd. High volume shooters usually keep 10,000 primers of one type alone on hand. And especially after some of the "shortages" that have occurred in the past (much like the current .223REM ammo situation). I fear a "law" will be soon created to further infringe my liberty and attempt to limit my ability to re-load ammunition. So what's new about this trend of oppression? Same old crap meant to insure that the common folk are powerless. As the saying goes...keep you powder dry! Stay safe.
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Old July 25, 1999, 12:01 AM   #12
Balming
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On a side note:

I am a BIGTIME handloader, with a whole room dedicated to the 10s of thousands of pieces of brass, many lbs of powder, and 1000s of primers. So, I installed 2 sprinkler heads in the room, one above my safes, the other over my reloading bench. It's not hard to do, just go to a plumbing wholsale supply store, and purchase as many heads as you need. You will need the kind that activate at 165 degrees, place them no closer than 8 feet apart, or the spray from 1 may cool the other to the point of not going off. Do not place them more than 10 feet away for adequate coverage. Make sure to install a cut-off, if the pipes freeze, or it goes off due to fire, you will need to shut it off.


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