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February 28, 2013, 10:02 AM | #51 | |
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If you are carrying the gun in a well designed (most holsters you'll find are) that covers the trigger, there is no chance of that gun going off. I have a rambunctious 3 year old, who likes crawling all over daddy. I carry my chambered Glock in an IWB leather/kydex hybrid style holster, and I have absolutely no fear of the gun going off because the holster retains the gun well enough I'm not worried about it coming out, and it would be impossible for the trigger to be pulled. I understand your fear. I had the same fear. But I got over that fear with a combination of the thing I mentioned above, and training. Now, I would not feel comfortable carrying a gun without a round in the chamber. I think I take it even a step further than you...I picked a Glock specifically because it doesn't have a safety I have to sweep off (trigger safety doesn't count as it doesn't require an extra action to use). But that was my preference. Do what's comfortable to you, but really, I urge you to learn to get comfortable carrying with a loaded chamber. Get some training...I bet there are several organizations that will do defensive handgun training. That will get you more comfortable. |
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February 28, 2013, 11:21 AM | #52 | |
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Dimension wise, it's about inch longer and taller than LCP, and .3 inches wider at grip. While it may not be the size you are looking for, it does fit all other criteria which could work for you.
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February 28, 2013, 02:17 PM | #53 | ||||
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What is interesting to me is that nobody seems to think that a manual safety compromises preparedness, but I would imagine that a large percentage (not going to make one up) of those who carry CANNOT quickly and thoughtlessly deactivate the manual safety of their carry firearm with one hand. If you want to take it all the way, the only really acceptable carry style is full-chambered with a GLOCK style trigger. Anything else is a compromise. But life is full of compromises, and concessions have to be made for the (never thought I'd hear myself say it, Ayn Rand would be disappointed) "human element." In this case, the shooter and gun form a system, and if both aren't working together the system fails. Better a system slightly less optimal where both are working in tandem than a system with optimal pieces that never comes together.
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February 28, 2013, 02:56 PM | #54 |
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Just have to chime in here and say I carry a dao .38 snubby iwb appendix carry. The holster covers the whole trigger assembly and their isn't even a hammer spur to jab me. Their is no way this gun can go off unless I remove it pull trigger or maybe if I was god forbid on fire but that's it. I'd imagine any dao or da/sa style auto would be the same. No mechanical safety seems better than that. The key is in my opinion if there is no spring tension being held with a loaded chamber then I'm good. I'd would be hesitant if it was a tensioned spring loaded hammer or stricker even with a safety but that's just me.
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February 28, 2013, 03:08 PM | #55 | |||||
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First, consider that the attacker may will be charging at a speed of more than four and a half meters per second, and that by the time one has drawn his or her firearm, said attacker may well already be within bad breath range. Adding in the time it takes to rack the slide would likely allow the attacker to close a very large part of that remaining distance, if not all of it. Of course, one needs not only to fire, but to stop the attacker before being overcome, which may require evasion and perhaps even a thrust with a walking stick. Second, the added risk of malfunction cited by JohnKSa seems more than "slightly-less", considering the stakes. Third, the likelihood of being jumped by two or more attackers is not insignificant, and time would really be of the essence. Quote:
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February 28, 2013, 03:12 PM | #56 | |
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February 28, 2013, 03:21 PM | #57 |
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Re: Re-thinking my carry/safety rules
I also recommend the Bodyguard 380. Very close in size to the LCP, it has a manual safety like you prefer, and an added bonus is the slide locks back after the last round is fired, which the LCP does not do. In my opinion if having a manual safety will make the difference of carrying one in the chamber or not, then you should buy a gun with a manual safety. I personally have a BG 380 and in the year I have owned it it has been flawless.
EDIT: I see now that you think the BG is an ugly gun, sorry I must've missed that before lol. I personally think it's a good looking pistol, but I personally don't really like the look of Springfields, so to each their own! Sent from my DROID4 using Tapatalk 2 Last edited by Erikbal; February 28, 2013 at 03:38 PM. |
March 1, 2013, 01:10 AM | #58 |
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OP here.
I picked up the LCP from my FFL today. It is a sweet gun, and I whipped together a quick hybrid holster for it. It is obvious this gun isn't going to spontaneously go off in this rigid holster. I'm wearing it around the house to get comfortable with it. It feels like a cell phone compared to that S&W CS9. Interestingly, the FFL had a S&W Bodyguard 380 he had just gotten in, too. I find that a lot of guns that I think look ugly in pictures look a lot better in person. This one didn't look half bad, felt nice, was well made, and although I'm old-school and tend to eschew lasers, the laser was cool, too. It was a bit heavier and bigger than the LCP, and the safety was clumsy. The FFL, who is this great old guy working out of his house, told me he bought 6 LCPs to give to family members as Christmas gifts (nice!). But then he said he was shocked when he learned they didn't have safeties! Man, I was just starting to come around to accepting the no-safety thing, and this guy brings it up as a major issue for him! I am really interested in getting so I am automatically comfortable operating all my autos. I got that way with revolvers, but my revolvers were all consistent in their controls. David |
March 1, 2013, 08:09 AM | #59 | |
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There have been several other instances that I would have had NO time to rack the slide. Each was recognize the issue, draw and point instantly, and shoot. I only had to fire once, the other times, the perp froze and spun in the same instant. I cannot begin to explain how fast things can change from serene to terror and stress. 1 second? 2? Not sure. Some of it seems like slo-mo, but it isn't.
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March 1, 2013, 09:50 AM | #60 |
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Mleake, your posts # 42 and 43 are right on the mark, that 1/2 second delay can be fatal for a number of reasons, and the OP's first query and expressed lack of confidence in carrying while fully loaded plays to it. I'd not recommend less than carrying fully loaded and in a gun with controls that you personally find suitable and are comfortable with...anything short of that is a big compromise...but the Israeli method sure beats a sharp stick or a stout rock. Best Regards...and I do enjoy your well thought out posts. Rod
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March 1, 2013, 10:32 AM | #61 |
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Well, its all about safety, aina?
Are you safe with a round in the chamber, or will you be safe with an empty chamber? Kinda' a personal calculation someone needs to make when one decides to carry. |
March 1, 2013, 10:51 AM | #62 | |
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Every type of ammo I have tried, offerings from all major makers, have worked perfectly. Accuracy has been acceptable, If not surpprisingly good with all. My final choice for carry is Hornady Critical Defense.
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March 1, 2013, 11:12 AM | #63 |
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Just throwing out my opinion:
I carry a Ruger LC9. Has a safety. Has a heavy and looong trigger pull. Hammer-fired, so that is pretty darned safe. https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/rev...uns/ruger-lc9/ It's the perfect gun to carry, if you are worried about pulling the trigger accidentally. I am confident I could throw the thing against a wall 10 times and it would never go off accidentally on the first round, due to the hammer. If you are against safeties, then look into a Kel-Tec P11. That thing has a very freaking heavy and loooong trigger pull. I got the LC9, despite my dislike for the trigger, because most SD shootings happen at close range. I'm not a great target shooter with the LC9 by any means, but within 7 to 10 feet -- no problem. The LC9 is a VERY safe gun to carry, and still packs punch! BTW... carry a flat-nose, or FMJ in your .380 to make sure you get the penetration you need. Last edited by baccusboy; March 1, 2013 at 11:18 AM. |
March 1, 2013, 05:51 PM | #64 |
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rodfac,
Thanks for the kind words. For the last 16+ years, a significant percentage of my workout partners have been cops and corrections officers. With that crowd, you would probably guess that a lot of focus is on weapon retention and takeaway, and you would be correct. Doing lots of disarm drills with various melee weapons and with blue guns has really been an eye opener. One thing it has taught me is that I don't want to mess with trying to chamber a round when under the stress of an attack. Another thing it has taught me is that if you have to think about what to do, you are going to have serious problems. Also, if you decide in advance what to do, you may have serious problems - each scenario unfolds as it will, so trying to force a particular technique or motion may be foolhardy. So, training to get out of the way of the attack, or to block or jam the attack, or to deflect the attack, plus combinations of the above while drawing is useful - but for it to work consistently well, reflex has to be conditioned. If somebody comes at me, my feet are moving. Which way will they move? Don't know until the guy comes at me, but I can guarantee I won't stand still. My off-hand will be busy either striking the attacker, deflecting an attack, or helping block off a path as I move around it. Which will it be? Again, don't know until it happens, but my off-hand will be busy. Whichever way I end up moving, I'll be trying to keep my draw hand on the far side of me from the attacker until the weapon is drawn and ready to go. This will be accomplished by movement of the feet and hips, which allows much more power and balance than just trying to muscle away with my arm. It's a body unity thing. Nowhere in any of those possible permutations, though, do I see good odds of using the off-hand to chamber a round. Regards, M |
March 1, 2013, 08:23 PM | #65 |
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I carry the LCP loaded, but anymore my favorite gun of that size is a Colt Mustang Pocket Lite, but I don't use the safety. I keep it loaded with one in the chamber, safety off, hammer down, condition 2.
I can cock it just fine with either hand, and I like the single action trigger pull, which makes the gun far eaiser to shoot accuratey, which is very important on a gun like the .380. Condition 3 is very bad idea with all of the little guns, IMHO, because they are prone to fumble, being so small, and failure to feeds are more common, when first loading then a bigger gun, like the 1911. I do sometimes carry a 1911 in condition 3, sometimes condition 2, and sometimes cocked and locked, but I have been doing it for 30yrs. |
March 2, 2013, 10:16 AM | #66 | |
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I carry a gun whenever I legally can. I always carry with a round in the chamber -- either a 1911 in condition 1 or an H&K P7M8. That's the way I've been trained.
Some thoughts --
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March 2, 2013, 10:30 AM | #67 | |
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You have an extra and unnecessary question to think about during the moment of chaos that prompted you to draw it in the first place..."what condition did I leave my gun in today?" You cant train for any of it well and none of it will become second nature. Your liable to cycle out a good round you might need later. Fooling around with it too much increases bullet setback and opportunities for a AD/ND. |
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March 2, 2013, 01:16 PM | #68 |
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Get a LC9 instead. It can be carried in pocket. I'm carrying mine as I type this. Has external safety and magazine disconnect safety.
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March 2, 2013, 09:39 PM | #69 |
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David you don't need to keep a round in the chamber if you don't want to and yes a gun is always safer without one in there. Wrestling with kids and the like is no place for a loaded gun. Your life is different from other people's so use your best judgement.
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March 2, 2013, 11:09 PM | #70 | |
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A friend of mine is married to a police officer who was involved in a shooting. The officer's partner was carrying a shotgun with a chambered round, but when the attacker presented with a firearm, the officer racked the live round out of the chamber instead of pulling the trigger. In the meantime, the attacker shot him in the neck. Fortunately the injury was only a graze wound, and his partner responded with a single shot that ended the confrontation. The second incident involved a bear attack in Alaska. One of the defenders was carrying a shotgun, and couldn't remember if a round was chambered or not. Because he couldn't figure out what condition the gun was in, he panicked, threw the gun at the bear and jumped in the river. One of his fishing companions had a bit more presence of mind and was able to down the bear with his handgun.
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March 3, 2013, 03:26 AM | #71 |
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Re: Re-thinking my carry/safety rules
Sounds good OP.
I agree with, gotta have one in the chamber. Also, safeties get people killed. Got a Kahr for the long pull and no external safety. If I carrry my da/sa, hammer down on a chambered round. |
March 3, 2013, 08:00 AM | #72 |
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I am fully prepared to get flamed for this post.
I "carry" a pistol in my car. I carried a Colt Government Pocketlite .380 for a few years before retiring it; presently I am carrying a Kel-Tec PF9. Sometimes I put it in a pants pocket or jacket pocket when I leave the car, but it is illegal for me to carry it many of the places I go (such as courthouses) so it often stays in the car. I have a two-year-old daughter. She gets into things and she is often in my car. You can see where this is going, but that is just one example. There is a 0% chance of an accidental discharge with an unchambered semiautomatic pistol. There is somewhat greater than a 0% chance that I have the second or so to rack the slide and load a bullet if I need to. While it may be less than the best protection possible should the unexpected arise, it's better than no gun and it's the most I'm prepared to do at this point in my life. |
March 3, 2013, 10:26 AM | #73 |
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^Theres not really anything to flame you about...carrying while having kids around is tricky.
Do what you gotta do... your the one who has to live with the results in your household. I have a already very busy 10 month old and I'm still trying to figure out how/where to keep some of my carry pistols. If shes anything like me everything will need to be in the safe....guns, knives, forks, fingernail clippers, It'll be like the TSA came through here. Regardless of her activites... the days of my "truck gun" are about over. Someone needs to invent a vehicle holster that will only release if the key is in the ignition, similar to how a auto trans wont come out of park. |
March 3, 2013, 10:31 AM | #74 |
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Clever idea and I'm glad to see someone else understands my consternation. I never felt the need for a safe until a few months ago, and after I've seen what my daughter can get into, I've decided it's a necessity. But like you said, the days of just loose-carrying a chambered pistol in my car are over for me.
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March 3, 2013, 01:09 PM | #75 | |
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1. Most, if not all, cars have a system that allows you to lock the glove compartment. You could leave your firearm in the locked glove compartment. 2. You can install a separate lock box to hold your gun when you are out of the vehicle. This also has the benefit of possibly securing your gun against theft if the vehicle is broken into. 3. You could carry a pistol which incorporates a magazine safety. When you remove the mag, the gun is essentially inert, even if a round is chambered. You can leave the gun in the car and keep the magazine on your person. 4. You can keep a container in the car, put the gun in the container and leave the container in the trunk. That would keep anyone in the passenger compartment from accessing the firearm. By the way, you should check your local laws. It may be a criminal offense to leave a small child unattended in a vehicle. In my state, a child under the age of 7 may not be left unattended in a vehicle for more than 5 minutes.
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