Restore or not to restore; project guns for beginning tinkerers?

[Kimio]

I'm curious, for project guns, how do you all decide when to restore and when not to restore a rifle?

I'm still new to working on firearms and so on, and I'm at a point where I have the option to re-blue or re-finish an old M91/30 that I picked up for cheap. The stock was in decent condition, but would likely look so much nicer with some TL&C as well as a new coat of wood varnish and so on. The bore appears to be in relatively solid shape from what I can tell as well (minor pitting, nothing too serious).

I could of course leave the rifle is it is and preserve the history of it, but part of me wants to see it brought back to its former glory and all that jazz.

What are your thoughts on the matter if I may ask? This rifle is not going to be a safe queen that's for sure, nor a wall ornament. I shoot what I buy and or fix up.

[Dixie Gunsmithing]

A gun generally needs to be rated or appraised less than 50% overall for it to be restored, as restoration can actually devalue a gun. Some guns, even that is too high, such as rarities, and its best to leave them alone. Another case, is a gun with sentimentality, that a family member wants redone, to keep, and does not care about devaluation.

I have reblued a ton of Model 12 Winchesters, but they were hunting guns, and today, their value is still around $400, when they come in. These guns are reblued to keep them up, and stop rust, etc. Now, if it is a trap or skeet, or more, pigeon grade, then one needs to be less than 50%.

[FrankenMauser]

I am not a gunsmith, but I generally base the "do I fix/refinish it" question on:
1. What will be the final disposition of the firearm? Am I selling it? Am I keeping it? Will it be an heirloom?
2. Is the cost worth it, based on current condition and final disposition?
3. Do I really feel like it?


Two good examples that I bought in 2013 for about $20 (combined):
1. Savage/Stevens Model 258 bolt action shotgun. It had been run over by a truck. The stock was shattered, the barrel was bent, the magazine guide and clip were tweaked, the trigger pin had sheared on one side and torn out of the receiver on the other side, and many of the screws and springs were missing or broken off. Most of the remaining screws were bent.
As I described it last year, "...Aside from the wood between those [massive main] cracks, the rest of the stock was held together by luck, workshop grime, and mouse crap." ...And someone was still shooting this thing for a while, in that condition!

I took a very long, hard look at that shotgun, and decided that I trusted it enough to get it running again. And, given some time and ammo to prove it was safe, I'd be willing to sell it. The receiver and barrel were sound, it's just that the muzzle deviated slightly from its original orientation. The missing 2-round magazine was expensive (something like $35 ), but the rest of the parts were cheap or scrounged from the parts bin. The trigger pin hole was peened back into shape and should hold fine.

Even a used replacement stock, however, could not be located for less than the market value of the complete shotgun in working order. So, I spent about 5 weeks pinning, screwing, bolting, epoxying, patching, and reinforcing the shattered stock.
When I was done, it looked like a nightmare. So, I covered it in textured paint, let that cure for about a month, and then coated it in a clear satin sealer.

In the end, I'm into it for about $75 (the paint cost more than the shotgun!). And it's worth $100-150 or so. But, I like it and haven't found myself wanting to sell it.




2. A Springfield Model 56 bolt action rimfire (.22 LR). This one was just a case of neglect and abandonment. It came from the same source as the shotgun (said to be the estate of a gunsmith). It was missing the bolt, magazine, and one trigger guard screw, and had 30+ years worth of workshop grime on top of an already beaten-and-battered exterior (the metal and the wood). It was, however, otherwise in working order and complete.

I figured if I could find a bolt, I'd have a "beater" .22 to play with. If I didn't like it, it would be worth $75-100.

I found a bolt that headspaced well for $35, a magazine for something like $13 (standard Savage), the screw for a couple dollars, and that rifle instantly turned into a family favorite. It is an absolute shooter! Not only will it shoot, but it will even feed .22 Short from the magazine (pretty danged rare thing to find, these days).

Now, I plan to refinish and rust blue that rifle and drop the action in a stock more befitting of its abilities. I'll be into it for FAR more that it is worth on the open market, but it's worth it to me. I'm hanging on to that Springfield, for a very long time, and I think it deserves a new lease on life that includes good bluing and a nice stock.

(I don't have any photos, and can't even find an example photo online of just how badly this one had been abused.)

[FrankenMauser]

In contrast to the two long guns above, I had a "failure" that I bought at the same time. (It was an auction. I bought 5 long guns that day, with the most expensive being $13 and the cheapest $5. Donated one, in working order, to a pastor to auction off to support his parish, fixed two, declared one a lost cause, and the other...)

There was an H&R 1903 12 ga shotgun that I picked up with a broken stock and a broken hinge pin. The hinge pin turned out to be a non-issue, function-wise. The stock is about a $60-90 part. It did turn out to also have some internal issues, though.

I fixed the internal issues without spending a dime. I was considering rebluing the shotgun and returning to to shooting condition with a new stock, but it just wasn't worth it.
It wasn't something that I'd be willing to load blackpowder shotshells for, and it was worth more as a "wall hanger" than it was refinished and fully functional.

So, I removed the firing pin, stuck it in a little baggy, and shoved the bag down the barrel. It is now taking up space in my safe, while waiting for someone in my family to bag some upland game birds that they want mounted. We're going to have the taxidermist work that old shotgun into the mount, and let it live on as eye candy - broken stock, nasty finish, gummy oil, and all....

[James K]

I guess it depends on what "restored" means. Frankly, I tend to cringe when I hear that term, since all too often it means a wire wheel, a lot of cold blue and a heavy coat of polyurethane. I am not sure what to call that kind of thing, but it is not a restoration of anything.

Jim

[Scorch]

As James K said, "restore" gets used a lot when what the person has in mind if "slap a little of something on it". I do firearms restorations, and in order to really call it a "restoration", it should look like a factory new firearm when you are done. Refinishing, on the other hand, is putting a new finish on a firearm (whether skillful or not is an entirely different topic).

To give an example, I had a customer bring in a Winchester 1897 for restoration. I discussed the difference between refinishing the shotgun (sand out surface defects, polish metal parts, hot caustic blue, strip then put finish on the wood) and restoring the shotgun (removing surface defects in the metal, polishing the metal, sending the metal to an engraver to remark the barrel, rust blue the metal; strip the wood, steam out any dents, repair cracks (or possibly replace the wood altogether), stain to match factory finish of the era, varnish the wood, recut checkering, etc). Refinishing might cost $500, restoring might cost 2 or 3 times that much. In this case, he opted for restoration since the firearm is a family heirloom (the shotgun was his grandfather's, and he wanted to leave it to his grandchildren).

So, which do you want, refinished or restored?

[hartcreek]

The 100 plus year old Model 94 Winchester that I gave my niece started out as a mess. Since the action was fine I did not want to re stock it so I drilled and glued and pinned that old broken up stock together. It took 21 pins and lots of sanding and refinishing but that 94 in .32 winchester Special now looks like the survivor of the Indian War that it probably was. All those pins give it character and she happily took it to Alaska with her when she was twelve.

[psalm7]

I enjoy repair/refinishing old firearms . But there comes a time to dissassemble and put them in the parts trays .

[Kimio]

What I'd like to do, is to restore this old Mosin, not refinish. This is a rifle I plan on keeping, there is sentimental value to it. It's the very first rifle I've ever owned, and it's the first firearm I bought.

So for me, I'd love to bring the rifle back to as close to the way it was when it left the factory as possible.

If I have my way, this rifle will be with me until I'm too old to shoot it and am ready to hand it down to my kids so they can enjoy shooting it.

[psalm7]

Mosins are very simple rifles and Iv seen about every part you would need to keep it running for several life times on Ebay .
My Mosin is in very nice shape and Iv quit shooting any kind of corrosive ammo in it .

[skizzums]

mosin nagants were designed specifically for American's to toy with.

if that wasn't their intention than they wouldn't sell millions of them for a hundred bucks. have fun with it, I do. someday if I come across a real gem of piece, i'll leave it be, but it'd have to be really really nice for me not to get weird with a mosin. maybe in two hundred years, they'll be worth a mint and my great-great-great grandchildren will be cussing me.....

[tobnpr]

Sounds like it's not a war time refurb, which are the most common, and with the least "collectible" value.

Generally speaking, Russian/Soviet 91/30's are the most recent manufactures and the most commonplace- but there are exceptions that you should be aware of, so you don't destroy a collectible unknowingly. A Tula from 1942 is extremely common, while one from 1941 is rare....

Check, here:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinRarity.htm

Keep in mind, this is just a rough guideline. There are many "purists" that frown on doing anything to these rifles- I'm not in that camp. That said, it's common sense that I wouldn't want to "sporter" my M24, or a pristine M39 when there are far more common rifles with no additional collectible value to learn with.

I certainly wouldn't discourage what you want to do provided you're not working on a collectible. Back in "the day", home schooled and professional smiths alike learned on Mausers, Enfields, and 1903's. With over 30 million made, there will certainly be enough preserved for posterity and allow for a few to be used in a learning capacity for gunsmithing and re-finishing.

If you have any doubt, post up some pics and I'll take a look.

[Clark]

I started out buying broken 22 rifles at pawn shops 20 years ago, buying parts from Gun parts corp, Numrich, and then selling the ones I fixed on consignment at pawn shops.

I made $2/hour doing that, but the dickering skills I learned from buying guns helped me negotiate other things where the return was better.

Some pawn shops would come down 50% and some only 10%.
For the past two years, I would be lucky to get a pawn shop to come down 5%.
And buying guns at gun shows I can sometimes get 50% off, but usually it is 10 to 20%.

Fixing broken 22 rifles does not teach much about the guns you care about, but it will teach you how to not leave witness marks with screws and pins.

[Kimio]

Looking at my M91/30 it's really nothing special. It's one of the very common Izhevsk Round receivers manufactured from 1935-1944 (Mine being stamped for 1939)

So from what I can tell, the collectors value of my rifle is pretty much moot.