Savage sending me a NEW serial numbered rifle straight to my house?

Everymanalion · February 27, 2017, 11:58 AM

So I sent a rifle into Savage about a month ago, they said the rifle had too many problems and they are going to replace it with a new rifle/serial #, I live in New Mexico and they told me I do NOT need to go through an FFL even though it is a different serial numbered rifle being sent to me. I have asked 3 different people at Savage and they all said the same thing and said the only reason to go through an FFL is if they sent a different MODEL number, but since its the same exact model apparently it can be shipped straight to my door? Has anyone else ever ran across this? I do not want to be breaking any laws or anything, I always thought new rifle replacement means going through an FFL?

Pops1085 · February 27, 2017, 12:52 PM

I mean I'd probably just take the guys who ship guns all the time's word for it but that's just me. Plus if the ATF busts down your door you have records of the conversation with Savage. They're a fairly big company, it's not like they'd risk a lawsuit for one customers gun.

T. O'Heir · February 27, 2017, 01:36 PM

"...I do NOT need to go through an FFL..." You're not. They are. Whatever was wrong with the other one is being fixed by Savage replacing the whole thing. Warrantee repair thing.
Savage is not going to do anything that could be remotely construed as illegal. Relax.

jmr40 · February 27, 2017, 01:41 PM

I used to think so too, but S&W did the same for me back in the 1990's. That was over 15 years ago and the ATF hasn't visited me yet.

natman · February 27, 2017, 05:10 PM

There are always two levels to consider, Federal and State.

On the Federal level:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-...80%99s-records

At the State level: In California, you would have to have the gun sent to an FFL and re-registered, full background check, waiting period, etc. I don't *think* New Mexico has a similar law, but I don't know for sure. I doubt the guy at Savage knows NM law either.

Find out first. Start here:
http://www.nmjustice.net/

pete2 · February 27, 2017, 05:36 PM

Ruger replaced a CMD for me a couple years ago, the replacement had to be thru an FFL. New 4473, new transaction. 4473 is a federal requirement, nothing to do with state law in Texas. I think they are wrong unless the law is different for a long gun.

natman · February 27, 2017, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Ruger replaced a CMD for me a couple years ago, the replacement had to be thru an FFL. New 4473, new transaction. 4473 is a federal requirement, nothing to do with state law in Texas.

Somebody at Ruger may believe that, but:

Quote:

How would a licensee record the disposition of a replacement firearm in the licensee’s records?

A licensee who receives a firearm for repair or customizing, and who returns a replacement firearm, must record the disposition in the licensee’s acquisition and disposition record. However, no ATF Form 4473 is required if the replacement firearm is returned to the same person from whom the licensee received the firearm being replaced. The replacement firearm must be of the same kind and type.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A); 27 CFR 478.124(a) and 478.147]
Last Reviewed September 23, 2016

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-...80%99s-records
[empahsis added]

MarkCO · February 27, 2017, 06:34 PM

Glock replaced a pistol for me many years back. Came straight to me. They of course "exchanged" the pistols.

Kreyzhorse · March 1, 2017, 08:02 AM

Not a problem. Ruger sent me a complete Ruger LCP direct. If it were illegal they wouldn't be doing it.

roc1 · March 1, 2017, 08:13 AM

Remington sent me a new rifle few years ago is not a problem

Roc1

jehu · March 1, 2017, 08:54 AM

I think the key here is new serial #, which IMO would require a 4473.If not then why can't manufacturers just sell guns to individuals direct and then ship them out? A gun sent back for repair can be sent back to the owner because the serial # has not changed. New ser.# means new gun = 4473. I'm no expert.

Art Eatman · March 1, 2017, 08:54 PM

IANAL. Once you pass the NICS deal, you're on the good-guy list for the original rifle. The factory logs the disposal of the first rifle and the shipment of the replacement. If there is a search by some LEO, the current owner is on record.

Kvon2 · March 2, 2017, 06:33 AM

Stoeger had to send me a "new" shotgun last year and it came right to my door.

Now I will say shipping to them was the ultimate pain. UPS required me to have them fax their FFL to the store but I had to go to 3 UPS stores before someone finally told me they had to do it through their customer support center which of course doesn't list their fax or phone number to the public...Makes sense, right?

Texas45 · March 2, 2017, 07:10 AM

Im PRETTY sure the RIFLE MFG is up to speed on Federal Firearm laws. As I understand it having read the above before they got it right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

natman · March 2, 2017, 06:11 PM

Quote:

I think the key here is new serial #, which IMO would require a 4473.If not then why can't manufacturers just sell guns to individuals direct and then ship them out? A gun sent back for repair can be sent back to the owner because the serial # has not changed. New ser.# means new gun = 4473. I'm no expert.

Go to post #7. Read the relevant quote. Click on the link and read it again on the ATF website.

Then reconsider your opinion.

DPris · March 3, 2017, 01:53 AM

At the federal level, as I & others told you on the other forum, it's perfectly legal to REPLACE a gun & ship direct to your home, with no FFL involved.

It's only a problem if some local entity (state, county, municipality, or whatever) prohibits it.

And Ruger has an FFL policy for replacements which is ONLY Ruger's POLICY, it is not a legal requirement.
They are not required by law or regulation to use an FFL on a replacement gun, they just choose to do so.
Denis

supercub99 · March 12, 2017, 01:00 PM

The key here gentlemen is the ownership has NOT changed. Yes, the serial number did but that's all. As pointed out, that is taken care of at Savage or whatever the company. The original gun will be destroyed, recorded and the new serial number will be replacing that one. It's not complicated. Smith and Wesson did this with the MP15 AR's not long after they came out. The lowers wouldn't take a standard P mag as advertised, the machining and alteration of the mag well was not cost effective so they had you send the gun in and they sent it back with a new lower and serial number. You will get a letter included usually, I did that states just that.
Relax, and if you can't, think about how sending it to an ffl would work. What's he gonna do, run you through the process again? For what end result? THAT would grease up the works nicely.

February 27, 2017, 11:58 AM	#1
Everymanalion Member Join Date: September 26, 2014 Posts: 22	Savage sending me a NEW serial numbered rifle straight to my house? So I sent a rifle into Savage about a month ago, they said the rifle had too many problems and they are going to replace it with a new rifle/serial #, I live in New Mexico and they told me I do NOT need to go through an FFL even though it is a different serial numbered rifle being sent to me. I have asked 3 different people at Savage and they all said the same thing and said the only reason to go through an FFL is if they sent a different MODEL number, but since its the same exact model apparently it can be shipped straight to my door? Has anyone else ever ran across this? I do not want to be breaking any laws or anything, I always thought new rifle replacement means going through an FFL?

February 27, 2017, 01:36 PM	#3
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...I do NOT need to go through an FFL..." You're not. They are. Whatever was wrong with the other one is being fixed by Savage replacing the whole thing. Warrantee repair thing. Savage is not going to do anything that could be remotely construed as illegal. Relax. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 27, 2017, 01:41 PM	#4
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I used to think so too, but S&W did the same for me back in the 1990's. That was over 15 years ago and the ATF hasn't visited me yet. __________________ "If you're still doing things the same way you were doing them 10 years ago, you're doing it wrong" Winston Churchill

February 27, 2017, 06:34 PM	#8
MarkCO Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 1998 Location: Colorado, USA Posts: 4,307	Glock replaced a pistol for me many years back. Came straight to me. They of course "exchanged" the pistols. __________________ Good Shooting, MarkCO www.CarbonArms.us

March 1, 2017, 08:02 AM	#9
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	Not a problem. Ruger sent me a complete Ruger LCP direct. If it were illegal they wouldn't be doing it. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

February 27, 2017, 12:52 PM	#2
Pops1085 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 369	I mean I'd probably just take the guys who ship guns all the time's word for it but that's just me. Plus if the ATF busts down your door you have records of the conversation with Savage. They're a fairly big company, it's not like they'd risk a lawsuit for one customers gun.

February 27, 2017, 05:10 PM	#5
natman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2008 Posts: 2,605	There are always two levels to consider, Federal and State. On the Federal level: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/how-...80%99s-records At the State level: In California, you would have to have the gun sent to an FFL and re-registered, full background check, waiting period, etc. I don't think New Mexico has a similar law, but I don't know for sure. I doubt the guy at Savage knows NM law either. Find out first. Start here: http://www.nmjustice.net/

February 27, 2017, 05:36 PM	#6
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Ruger replaced a CMD for me a couple years ago, the replacement had to be thru an FFL. New 4473, new transaction. 4473 is a federal requirement, nothing to do with state law in Texas. I think they are wrong unless the law is different for a long gun.

March 1, 2017, 08:13 AM	#10
roc1 Senior Member Join Date: July 31, 2005 Location: Lubbock Texas Posts: 560	Remington sent me a new rifle few years ago is not a problem Roc1

March 1, 2017, 08:54 AM	#11
jehu Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 433	I think the key here is new serial #, which IMO would require a 4473.If not then why can't manufacturers just sell guns to individuals direct and then ship them out? A gun sent back for repair can be sent back to the owner because the serial # has not changed. New ser.# means new gun = 4473. I'm no expert.

March 1, 2017, 08:54 PM	#12
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	IANAL. Once you pass the NICS deal, you're on the good-guy list for the original rifle. The factory logs the disposal of the first rifle and the shipment of the replacement. If there is a search by some LEO, the current owner is on record.

March 2, 2017, 06:33 AM	#13
Kvon2 Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2016 Posts: 757	Stoeger had to send me a "new" shotgun last year and it came right to my door. Now I will say shipping to them was the ultimate pain. UPS required me to have them fax their FFL to the store but I had to go to 3 UPS stores before someone finally told me they had to do it through their customer support center which of course doesn't list their fax or phone number to the public...Makes sense, right?

March 2, 2017, 07:10 AM	#14
Texas45 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2016 Posts: 223	Im PRETTY sure the RIFLE MFG is up to speed on Federal Firearm laws. As I understand it having read the above before they got it right. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

March 3, 2017, 01:53 AM	#16
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	At the federal level, as I & others told you on the other forum, it's perfectly legal to REPLACE a gun & ship direct to your home, with no FFL involved. It's only a problem if some local entity (state, county, municipality, or whatever) prohibits it. And Ruger has an FFL policy for replacements which is ONLY Ruger's POLICY, it is not a legal requirement. They are not required by law or regulation to use an FFL on a replacement gun, they just choose to do so. Denis

March 12, 2017, 01:00 PM	#17
supercub99 Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2012 Location: Alaska Posts: 146	The key here gentlemen is the ownership has NOT changed. Yes, the serial number did but that's all. As pointed out, that is taken care of at Savage or whatever the company. The original gun will be destroyed, recorded and the new serial number will be replacing that one. It's not complicated. Smith and Wesson did this with the MP15 AR's not long after they came out. The lowers wouldn't take a standard P mag as advertised, the machining and alteration of the mag well was not cost effective so they had you send the gun in and they sent it back with a new lower and serial number. You will get a letter included usually, I did that states just that. Relax, and if you can't, think about how sending it to an ffl would work. What's he gonna do, run you through the process again? For what end result? THAT would grease up the works nicely.

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