Bump stock gone?

[kenny53]

It looks like President Trump has ask the Department of Justice to ban Bump Stocks and other modifiers. I don't like any gun control measures but I would not be to bent out of shape over bump stocks. But that is just me. I will wait until I see all the information before I form an opinion.

[DaleA]

The phrase, 'tossing a bone' comes to mind.

[TruthTellers]

Whether it's now or next year or in 2021, bump stocks are going to be the focus of Anti's for years to come and they will be banned as soon as possible if Anti's ever become the majority in Congress.

I'd rather see us get something in return for bump stocks and age restrictions then to just flat out give them away like what happened in 1934, 1968, or 1994.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

1. What is DoJ’s legal authority to make that determination?

2. How do you craft a single rule that bans multiple different mechanical devices the previous administration has said were legal?

3. If you base it on rate of fire, you are setting up a ban on semi-autos.

4. Doubling is a common form of failure for semi-auto trigger groups. How do you ban binary triggers without criminalizing people who have broken firearms and may not even know it until they get to the range?

[TJB101]

As long as it’s bump stocks or trigger cranks I could care less. But, if they get into trigger upgrades, etc it ain’t gonna be good.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Good points, Mr. Roberts. In the latter case, I've been told you call the ATF and tell them you have a broken gun immediately. I saw an SKS go full auto once. Scary!

[Mike38]

I too hate to see any form of gun control suggested, let alone made into law. But "tossing a bone" as mentioned earlier, may be the only thing. I don't own a bump stock, don't care to own one, as I think they are nothing but a way to make noise and empty your wallet. Just hope this doesn't become the camel's nose in the tent. I have a feeling, the time has come that the anti gun crowd are not going to give up until they get something. They won't consider that it's a mental illness problem.

[berettaprofessor]

Ban bump stocks? That's funny, I didn't think the Florida shooter used them....oh, wait, we're still doing things that were too late for the last shooting

[In The Ten Ring]

The Vegas concert shooter had the clean background and money to buy a real full auto, such as a Maxim, MG 42, or Browning and he would have killed hundreds and wounded thousands. I guess he didn't know about those. Bump stocks weren't even used this last time.

The Left needs mass shootings so they can keep beating their gun ban drum. Further, their selective hoplophobia is rather amazing. They simply won't go for teachers defending students on campus, even though those same teachers can carry off campus. Remember though, the Left needs dead children for the emotional impact.

I hope bump stocks don't go. I'm not a fan of those, the impact on accuracy is too much. I can't afford a real full auto myself but I've fired full auto, belt fed and magazine fed, it was pretty fun, but out of my tax bracket. A friend is a NFA manufacturer, I can shoot it when I want.

Bump stocks might really go this time but nothing good will come in their place. There is no "compromise" on gun control. Freedom is lost, never gained with that issue. I guess Trump reasons the base will give him a pass on this one. If he goes for an AWB or mag ban, he's done in 2020 and we'll get Hillary 2.0.

*I did give in to fears though and tried to buy a bump stock last year. I won the Gunbroker auction, spoke with the seller on the phone, mailed him a check and NOTHING. Return emails stopped. I cancelled the check only to find the check had been returned in the mail, my letter having never been opened. Fortunately, I wasn't charged a check cancellation fee. I guess God didn't want me having that after all OR He wanted me to have that new alloy Hi Power more.

[BarryLee]

I saw a TV reporter interviewing a Mother as she picked her kids up at an Atlanta school. He asked about school shootings and she said, “they need to do something”. The reporter got noticeably excited and asked what she thought they should do. She sort of mumbled with that deer in the headlights look and said, “well I don’t know just do something”.

Sadly, this is the problem as people with zero knowledge about firearms are becoming pawns of the anti-gun crowd who have stated clearly in the past what their end game is. Maybe regulating bump stocks will appease some of the useful idiots for a period of time, but don’t think this will satisfy those evil folks behind the curtain.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The term for having to do something is : Moral panic

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

Note the definition:

A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society.[1][2] A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as "the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media".[3]

The media are key players in the dissemination of moral indignation, even when they do not appear to be consciously engaged in crusading or muckraking. Simply reporting the facts can be enough to generate concern, anxiety, or panic.[4] Stanley Cohen states that moral panic happens when "a condition, episode, person or group of persons emerges to become defined as a threat to societal values and interests." Examples of moral panic include the belief in widespread abduction of children by predatory paedophiles,[5][6][7] belief in ritual abuse of women and children by satanic cults,[8] the War on Drugs,[9] and other public health issues.

[raimius]

(Assuming the DOJ/ATF do the President's bidding and formulate policy that bans them...as that technically has not yet happened.)

This is not a compromise. We gain nothing by this--no returns to gun owner's rights, not even a safer society.

This is a betrayal of gun owners because of convenience and wanting to look good.
It also ignores the plain text of the laws it claims to be enforcing, and directly contradicts previous ATF determinations. It bans things that are not machine guns as machine guns because people don't like them. That is NOT the rule of law. That is the rule of bureaucrats intimidated by the media.

[L2R]

As I read it, he asked that they ban anything that would allow a semi to become a machine gun.

Obviously, this ban would have to include rubber bands, belts and shoe strings.

Seriously, once that is understood and broadcast to those in a panic, then the obvious 'next step' must be to eliminate semi auto's entirely. I think they know that and I think it is coming.

[LateNightFlight]

Would a bump stock confiscation plan compensate those who surrender them? As I read the 5th Amendment, it speaks to "property taken for public use," not property taken and destroyed. If/when confiscation broadened to include semi auto weapons, will enthusiasts and collectors with tens-of-thousands, even hundreds-of-thousands invested in collections have nothing to show for it except their investment in empty gun safes?

[pete2]

It won't be just the bump stock. They'll ban something else, then something else until we are disarmed. THEY ARE NOT GONNA STOP AT BUMP STOCKS.

[ammo.crafter]

When the door opens and the foot gets in, it's all over.

Realistically, I have no use for a 100 round magazine, but when that goes so go 30's, 20's 10's, etc.

Make soft targets hard targets.

[TXAZ]

Originally Posted by pete2

It won't be just the bump stock. They'll ban something else, then something else until we are disarmed. THEY ARE NOT GONNA STOP AT BUMP STOCKS.

I'll disagree pete2. I see little practical use in a bump stock. Yes you can play like you have a machine gun, but the accuracy is a joke.

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by pete2

It won't be just the bump stock. They'll ban something else, then something else until we are disarmed. THEY ARE NOT GONNA STOP AT BUMP STOCKS.

I'm not arguing that, that's simple fact, but the argument now is how do we justify bump stocks and allowing people to fire guns as fast as machine guns, which are no longer allowed to be registered by civilians?

The line when it comes to guns in the US is machine guns and suppressors. We can educate people about the benefits of suppressor deregulation, but we will never be able to change the public's view on machine guns. When you say machine guns, the mental image of machine guns is Chicago gangsters in the Depression gunning each other down.

You can thank Hollywood for that.

The line that's being pushed now is semi auto rifles with detachable magazines. That line must never become the same as that of machine guns because high capacity magazines in a gun is the best defense tool a person can own.

When someone is attacked in their home they're not going to have the time or mindset to grab another magazine to reload. So, if they're limited to 10 rounds and there are 2 or 3 people in a home invasion, when their gun runs dry, they're screwed. When a mass shooter plans an attack, they're going to strap themselves down with 10 round magazines or they'll use illegal magazines. They'll still reload just as fast as they do with 20 or 30 rd mags.

So, a bumpstock is one thing and it's a rather useless thing for most of us. Why defend something so useless when in return something useful could be gained?

[Sharkbite]

I see little practical use in a bump stock.

And the same can be said by many about .50BMG RIFLES. What use is a cartridge that was DESIGNED as a military machinegun round, in civilian hands. What use in a rifle in a caliber that can accurately shoot over a mile?

The “no practical use” statement is a slippery slope

[TruthTellers]

Originally Posted by Sharkbite

And the same can be said by many about .50BMG RIFLES. What use is a cartridge that was DESIGNED as a military machinegun round, in civilian hands. What use in a rifle in a caliber that can accurately shoot over a mile?

The “no practical use” statement is a slippery slope

.50's have a legit sporting use. Bump stocks do not.

[In The Ten Ring]

Bill of Rights, not Bill of Needs.

No one needs a car that can exceed the speed limit. No one needs more than one car. No one needs a chainsaw, that's what tree trimmers are for........just saying. In DC, no one needs to carry a gun, and only the very wealthy can. How safe is DC?

[WyMark]

Trump was always anti-gun until a few years ago when it became politically expedient for him to not be. The BATF has already ruled twice, in 2010 and 2012 (Obama inaction!) that it lacks authority to regulate "bump stocks" because they don't actually convert a semi-auto to full auto. Doing so would be making law, which is entirely up to Congress. DOJ stated the same again last December, there is nothing they can do without some action from Congress.

So in fact a statement like:

“Just a few moments ago, I signed a memorandum directing the attorney general to propose regulations to ban all devices that turn legal weapons into machine guns,” Trump said Tuesday while speaking at a medal of valor ceremony at the White House. “I expect that these critical regulations will be finalized ... very soon.”

is completely meaningless.

And if Congress does do anything, it will consist of the GOP tying a ban to some unrelated issue that Dems simply can't support, it will fail and then they can blame it on the Dems. That's politics.

[In The Ten Ring]

WyMark,

Very interesting points....if Odrama could have banned anything gun-related he would have, like when he cut off 7N6 imports (5.45x39mm ammo). Trump may not be able to cut off bump stocks either.

He should be holding to campaign promises and ending gun free zones that attract these killers. If he becomes a Leftist, he's done in 2020.

[johnwilliamson062]

He requested legislation be drafted. Which then is suggested to congress. This is delay. Just like ATFE study on bump stocks.

[Sharkbite]

50's have a legit sporting use. Bump stocks do not.

So say YOU...

Listen, i like 50BMG’s as much as the next guy, but to say its ok to ban bump stocks. Because they have “no legit purpose” is a slippery slope I dont want to see this country start down.

What is next? 30round mags? 20rounders? Semi-autos all together? Magnum calibers only if hunting?

Im not a fan of bump stocks, just never tickled me ( ive got plenty of time behind select fire weapons, belt and magazine fed). But, if somebody wants one to make a big pile of brass and a hole in their wallet...go for it.

What seems to be missing in this is that it does NOT turn a semi into a machinegun. The gun still only fires 1 shot per trigger pull. So unless the Govt changes the definition of “machine gun”, indont see how to ban it without a new law passing.