First time reloader with some questions

Jmor · February 14, 2018, 09:10 PM

Hey guys,

So I’m brand new to this whole reloading game (haven’t made a single round as of yet) and have a few questions that I’m sure a couple of you can help me with.

For starters I’m loading .308, not for hunting, but for bench shooting. Just like the challenge of trying to get the best accuracy I can out of myself and my rifle. Up until now I’ve only shot factory ammo and figured I’d step into the reloading world and try my hand at a new hobby.

Ok so here are my questions:

1. I’ve tried to find my COAL by chambering a once fired Federal brass (fired out of my rifle) with a bullet loosely fitted in the neck. However, I can’t get the bolt to close and end up having to knock the bullet out with a cleaning rod. I measured the brass and it isn’t too long. Tried this about 10-20 different pieces of brass all fired from my rifle with the same results. Will I have to full length resize the brass to get it to chamber in my rifle? And if so how will I get a bullet back in there after resizing to find the COAL? Also open to any other methods of finding the COAL if anyone has any tips.

2. Does anyone see the need to full length resize new brass? I’m going to resize the necks because there’re a little dinged up from being handled and shipped and what not. I know some guys do, some guys don’t. Just like to hear some pros and cons about it.

3. Lastly, I’d love any suggestions you guys may have about reloading precision ammo in general. Anything you guys may have come across that I should look out for or anything that could make the ammo more accurate. I’m not interested in anyone’s secret recipe or anything, I’m looking forward to developing my own loads and going through the process of finding out what works best in my rifle, but sometimes a point in the right direction can save a lot of headache.

Sorry for such a long rant! This is my first time posting anything like this so it seems a bit long. Anyways, thanks for your time guys I appreciate it!

Cheers!

condor bravo · February 14, 2018, 10:00 PM

For question #1, here's the old fashioned way that requires a dowel rod that will fit in the barrel, a pencil, and the bullet of choice:
1. Insert the dowel rod into the barrel until it contacts the bolt face (with firing pin in cocked position) and make a pencil mark on the dowel rod where it exits the barrel.
2. Remove dowel and using a finger from one hand hold the bullet against the rifling and with the other hand insert the dowel rod to where it contacts the bullet and with a third hand make another pencil mark where it exits the barrel.
3. The distance between the two pencil marks is your overall length.

For question #2, some do full length new brass before loading but most just run the cases over the expander button in the sizing die just to iron out any imperfections in the necks. If using bulk brass, occasionally some cases might have creases by the shoulder (different than dents) and those cases should not be used.

condor bravo · February 14, 2018, 10:59 PM

For question #3, here's something you might want to try. It sounds good but I haven't found it to be that beneficial in sporting rifles like Rem 700s and Win 70s.

Buy a bullet runout gauge and measure the bullet runout of loaded rounds. Typically runout will be in the order of .001 to .008 or so with a few at .000.

Then with a marking pen make a mark on the case at either the low or high position of the runout. For example a .003 runout may fluctuate between .004 and .007 on the gauge, indicating the low and high point readings on the gauge.

Single load the rounds and insert each cartridge at the mark at the same chamber position, like at 12:00.

Does this work? Can't really say since you can't pull the rounds back and fire them randomly.

Dufus · February 14, 2018, 11:29 PM

What y'all are describing as the COAL is not that. What you are measuring is the distance to the lands. The COAL will be shorter than that, unless you have the juevos to seat bullets into the lands, which is not advisable to a novice.

condor bravo · February 15, 2018, 11:54 AM

Continuation from post #3:
Does less runout produce better accuracy? It should but again can't say for sure.
Load several rounds according to post 3 and segregate into groups from best to worst. Let's say 5 rounds from .000 to .0025; five more from .003 to .0055; several more from .006 to .008; and several more from .0085 and beyond.

Now fire the groups according to the method in post 3 and see if the smaller runout groups result in better accuracy. Doesn't always work that way.

Don Fischer · February 15, 2018, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dufus

What y'all are describing as the COAL is not that. What you are measuring is the distance to the lands. The COAL will be shorter than that, unless you have the juevos to seat bullets into the lands, which is not advisable to a novice.

Actually cartridge over all length is what is being described. It measure's the cartridge from base to bullet tip. One correction though. After getting that length and seating a bullet to reach that length, the bullet will need set back a bit to stay off the lands. Actually I measure the same way but I use a cleaning rod rather than a dowel, does the same thing. Then after getting a case loaded to that length, I seat the bullet several more time's moving the seating die down just a bit at a time until the bullet no longer come's out with land marks on it. For the hunter, even the varmint hunter, I see no purpose in knowing just how far the bullet is off the lands but, I think it should be off the lands and chamber freely. I then lock that die in. I only use spitzer bullet's and tend to use just one brand and type in that rifle. That seat die is dedicated to that rifle.Long as I'm this far, I also dedicate the FL die to a cartridge. I set it to neck size and leave it there until a fired case no longer enter's and chamber's easily. At that point I start turning the die down about a quarter turn at a time. Re-size again and try again to chamber. When the case finally enter's the chamber and locks in freely, I then lock that dies in and it's dedicated to that rifle as the FL die, it fit's that chamber. Lately I've been messing with a Lee collet die to neck size so as to eliminate the case mouth from being pulled back over the expander button of my FL dies. does a great job of stopping case stretch every time the case is sized. When the case no longer close's in the chamber, use the FL die dedicated to that rifle and FL to fit that chamber, case will stretch coming back over the expander.

jugornot · February 15, 2018, 12:20 PM

1. Here are some Hornady tools for measuring length to lands and brass base to datum. Others will disagree with these choices. These and a good caliper will get you started.
This
This
This
And this
2. Very dependent on the brass. Lapua just use it. Others you decide. Make 1 good dummy round to keep as a reference for the future.
3. This site will introduce some of the things done in precision rifle competition.

Good luck and have fun.

Jmor · February 15, 2018, 01:00 PM

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Can’t wait to get the hang of reloading and seeing the results. Think I’m going to look around these forums and see what type of info I can find. Thanks again!

Don Fischer · February 15, 2018, 01:03 PM

Want to do something that will maybe make your rifle shoot better than reloading? Learn to bed the rifle!

jamaica · February 15, 2018, 03:54 PM

Thinking of reloading?

First buy a manual. The Lyman Reloading Handbook is a good one.

Now read the manual.

Know anyone who is reloading? Talk to some reloaders if you know any. You are looking for information. You want to know what they are using and what they like.

OK, want accurate ammo? You can't use mixed head stamp brass you picked up at the range. You want a batch of brass from the same batch. You can buy brass or collect your own from ammo you have shot. Thing is brass can vary some depending on who made it. What you get is some differences in actual case volume. These differences will affect pressures and change bullet performance. For good accuracy you need to keep these variances to a minimum.

RC20 · February 15, 2018, 04:37 PM

The simplest way to COAL is to resize (FULL) a case.

The bullet when seated in a sized case will not normally move if you are gentle with the next step.

put a bullet in it deliberately too long, measure it. I just guess but you can look at the COAL from the mfg and add .100 to start.

then insert the inert round in chamber and very gently move the bolt forward.

It will stop, tap it back with a rubber handle (screwdriver). Most bullets will stick in the lands, some with a blunt profile will just stop.

Measure it again, if its sticked too hard you can possibly (not likely) but possible pull it out a bit.

If its the same as when you put it in, next step.
Make an estimate if its close to closing or way out.

Adjust .020 deeper until it closes easily. You can play with it further, or just seat the bullet another .010 deeper and you are good to start.

You can fine tune it more, but at most you are probably .010 off the lands.

You can keep and mark that case as a gauge for setting your seating die in the future.

Each different mfg is going to be different (mostly). Many bullets from the same mfg will be different as some are hunting, some are very tapered for long range shooting.

So each different type bullet even from same mfg has to be checked.

If its the same as another one, then you can put both type bullets for initial seating on the same case.

Set your seating die to the bullet and you can latter set them deeper for testing how they do.

Micrometer seating dies are a real plus for this type of work. Not a have to.

As I play with COAL, I take a press to the range and have found one that likes to be seated really deep.

RC20 · February 15, 2018, 04:47 PM

Quote:

OK, want accurate ammo? You can't use mixed head stamp brass you picked up at the range. You want a batch of brass from the same batch. You can buy brass or collect your own from ammo you have shot. Thing is brass can vary some depending on who made it. What you get is some differences in actual case volume. These differences will affect pressures and change bullet performance. For good accuracy you need to keep these variances to a minimum.

For just getting started it makes no difference. Learn the process.

I don't use batches of brass, same mfg. I am not David Tubbs either and never will be.

If I can get it under 1/2 inch that's as good as I am going to do with my budget.

Dufus · February 15, 2018, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dufus
What y'all are describing as the COAL is not that. What you are measuring is the distance to the lands. The COAL will be shorter than that, unless you have the juevos to seat bullets into the lands, which is not advisable to a novice.
Actually cartridge over all length is what is being described.

Read post #2 again, Mr. Fischer. The measurement is from the bolt face to the lands. That is not COAL or overall length.

condor bravo · February 15, 2018, 07:13 PM

If there is a dispute over the COAL definition, let's just call, per post #2, what has been measured as maximum cartridge length.

The measurement is from the bolt face to the tip of the bullet and will generally vary slightly between different bullet tip configurations. So the measurement will usually be valid only with the bullet that is being checked. Then the bullet can be seated deeper as desired.

BBarn · February 15, 2018, 07:36 PM

I don't recall ever having any trouble closing the bolt on an empty case once-fired from the same rifle. I think figuring out why that's happening would be my first step.

February 15, 2018, 11:54 AM	#5
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Continuation from post #3: Does less runout produce better accuracy? It should but again can't say for sure. Load several rounds according to post 3 and segregate into groups from best to worst. Let's say 5 rounds from .000 to .0025; five more from .003 to .0055; several more from .006 to .008; and several more from .0085 and beyond. Now fire the groups according to the method in post 3 and see if the smaller runout groups result in better accuracy. Doesn't always work that way. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

February 15, 2018, 12:20 PM	#7
jugornot Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2017 Posts: 197	1. Here are some Hornady tools for measuring length to lands and brass base to datum. Others will disagree with these choices. These and a good caliper will get you started. This This This And this 2. Very dependent on the brass. Lapua just use it. Others you decide. Make 1 good dummy round to keep as a reference for the future. 3. This site will introduce some of the things done in precision rifle competition. Good luck and have fun. Last edited by jugornot; February 15, 2018 at 12:25 PM.

February 15, 2018, 04:37 PM	#11
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	The simplest way to COAL is to resize (FULL) a case. The bullet when seated in a sized case will not normally move if you are gentle with the next step. put a bullet in it deliberately too long, measure it. I just guess but you can look at the COAL from the mfg and add .100 to start. then insert the inert round in chamber and very gently move the bolt forward. It will stop, tap it back with a rubber handle (screwdriver). Most bullets will stick in the lands, some with a blunt profile will just stop. Measure it again, if its sticked too hard you can possibly (not likely) but possible pull it out a bit. If its the same as when you put it in, next step. Make an estimate if its close to closing or way out. Adjust .020 deeper until it closes easily. You can play with it further, or just seat the bullet another .010 deeper and you are good to start. You can fine tune it more, but at most you are probably .010 off the lands. You can keep and mark that case as a gauge for setting your seating die in the future. Each different mfg is going to be different (mostly). Many bullets from the same mfg will be different as some are hunting, some are very tapered for long range shooting. So each different type bullet even from same mfg has to be checked. If its the same as another one, then you can put both type bullets for initial seating on the same case. Set your seating die to the bullet and you can latter set them deeper for testing how they do. Micrometer seating dies are a real plus for this type of work. Not a have to. As I play with COAL, I take a press to the range and have found one that likes to be seated really deep. __________________ Science and Facts are True whether you believe it or not Last edited by RC20; February 15, 2018 at 04:45 PM.

February 15, 2018, 07:13 PM	#14
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	If there is a dispute over the COAL definition, let's just call, per post #2, what has been measured as maximum cartridge length. The measurement is from the bolt face to the tip of the bullet and will generally vary slightly between different bullet tip configurations. So the measurement will usually be valid only with the bullet that is being checked. Then the bullet can be seated deeper as desired. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with?? Last edited by condor bravo; February 15, 2018 at 08:07 PM.

February 14, 2018, 09:10 PM	#1
Jmor Junior Member Join Date: February 13, 2018 Posts: 2	First time reloader with some questions Hey guys, So I’m brand new to this whole reloading game (haven’t made a single round as of yet) and have a few questions that I’m sure a couple of you can help me with. For starters I’m loading .308, not for hunting, but for bench shooting. Just like the challenge of trying to get the best accuracy I can out of myself and my rifle. Up until now I’ve only shot factory ammo and figured I’d step into the reloading world and try my hand at a new hobby. Ok so here are my questions: 1. I’ve tried to find my COAL by chambering a once fired Federal brass (fired out of my rifle) with a bullet loosely fitted in the neck. However, I can’t get the bolt to close and end up having to knock the bullet out with a cleaning rod. I measured the brass and it isn’t too long. Tried this about 10-20 different pieces of brass all fired from my rifle with the same results. Will I have to full length resize the brass to get it to chamber in my rifle? And if so how will I get a bullet back in there after resizing to find the COAL? Also open to any other methods of finding the COAL if anyone has any tips. 2. Does anyone see the need to full length resize new brass? I’m going to resize the necks because there’re a little dinged up from being handled and shipped and what not. I know some guys do, some guys don’t. Just like to hear some pros and cons about it. 3. Lastly, I’d love any suggestions you guys may have about reloading precision ammo in general. Anything you guys may have come across that I should look out for or anything that could make the ammo more accurate. I’m not interested in anyone’s secret recipe or anything, I’m looking forward to developing my own loads and going through the process of finding out what works best in my rifle, but sometimes a point in the right direction can save a lot of headache. Sorry for such a long rant! This is my first time posting anything like this so it seems a bit long. Anyways, thanks for your time guys I appreciate it! Cheers!

February 14, 2018, 10:00 PM	#2
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	For question #1, here's the old fashioned way that requires a dowel rod that will fit in the barrel, a pencil, and the bullet of choice: 1. Insert the dowel rod into the barrel until it contacts the bolt face (with firing pin in cocked position) and make a pencil mark on the dowel rod where it exits the barrel. 2. Remove dowel and using a finger from one hand hold the bullet against the rifling and with the other hand insert the dowel rod to where it contacts the bullet and with a third hand make another pencil mark where it exits the barrel. 3. The distance between the two pencil marks is your overall length. For question #2, some do full length new brass before loading but most just run the cases over the expander button in the sizing die just to iron out any imperfections in the necks. If using bulk brass, occasionally some cases might have creases by the shoulder (different than dents) and those cases should not be used. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with?? Last edited by condor bravo; February 14, 2018 at 10:07 PM.

February 14, 2018, 10:59 PM	#3
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	For question #3, here's something you might want to try. It sounds good but I haven't found it to be that beneficial in sporting rifles like Rem 700s and Win 70s. Buy a bullet runout gauge and measure the bullet runout of loaded rounds. Typically runout will be in the order of .001 to .008 or so with a few at .000. Then with a marking pen make a mark on the case at either the low or high position of the runout. For example a .003 runout may fluctuate between .004 and .007 on the gauge, indicating the low and high point readings on the gauge. Single load the rounds and insert each cartridge at the mark at the same chamber position, like at 12:00. Does this work? Can't really say since you can't pull the rounds back and fire them randomly. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

February 14, 2018, 11:29 PM	#4
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	What y'all are describing as the COAL is not that. What you are measuring is the distance to the lands. The COAL will be shorter than that, unless you have the juevos to seat bullets into the lands, which is not advisable to a novice.

February 15, 2018, 01:00 PM	#8
Jmor Junior Member Join Date: February 13, 2018 Posts: 2	Thanks for all the feedback guys! I appreciate you taking the time to help me out. Can’t wait to get the hang of reloading and seeing the results. Think I’m going to look around these forums and see what type of info I can find. Thanks again!

February 15, 2018, 01:03 PM	#9
Don Fischer Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2017 Posts: 1,868	Want to do something that will maybe make your rifle shoot better than reloading? Learn to bed the rifle!

February 15, 2018, 03:54 PM	#10
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	Thinking of reloading? First buy a manual. The Lyman Reloading Handbook is a good one. Now read the manual. Know anyone who is reloading? Talk to some reloaders if you know any. You are looking for information. You want to know what they are using and what they like. OK, want accurate ammo? You can't use mixed head stamp brass you picked up at the range. You want a batch of brass from the same batch. You can buy brass or collect your own from ammo you have shot. Thing is brass can vary some depending on who made it. What you get is some differences in actual case volume. These differences will affect pressures and change bullet performance. For good accuracy you need to keep these variances to a minimum.

February 15, 2018, 07:36 PM	#15
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	I don't recall ever having any trouble closing the bolt on an empty case once-fired from the same rifle. I think figuring out why that's happening would be my first step.