The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 6, 2010, 03:09 PM   #1
SPUSCG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2008
Posts: 3,004
Strobe light on home defense gun?

I saw at shot a company (i think it was blackhawk) used strobe lights on a pistol's rail and said it took away a bad guys depth perception and ability to sense movement, making you less of a target. Im wondering, does this really work and if it messes with the bad gys perception does it mess with yours, could you aquire a target thats being hit with a strobe?
__________________
Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.
SPUSCG is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 03:15 PM   #2
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,098
I guess that you could do some practice to see if you could acclimatize to it. I used to have a flashlight with a strobe feature that would occasionally engage inadvertently and I found it extremely irritating. I could see how it would be somewhat disorienting for someone who wasn't expecting it.

The key would be figuring out if you could get used to it.
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 03:23 PM   #3
jhenry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 1,837
I have no doubt a good strobe will disorient a guy, my fear is two fold. It is also going to disorient the shooter, and just as importantly, the intended target will be illuminated by strobe. If you have never seen that, it is a little disconcerting. The bad guy will be herking and jerking like a zombie, and the available light will be effected by the strobe. I would hate to be in a position of life and death, trying to use my sights in that kind of white hot mess.

I predict a quick and merciful death for this tactical widget.
__________________
"A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer
jhenry is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 03:29 PM   #4
bamiller
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 3, 2010
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 455
I agree with jhenry. This sounds like something the company is spending a lot of marketing money to convince you you need it.
bamiller is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 03:36 PM   #5
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 11,996
Based on my testing in the field, the strobe light did not disorient the deer I lit up. More seemed spooked by it than being lit up with a regular light, but some just continued feeding on the corn as well. None ran in circles, crashed into one another, or fell over.

In playing with the strobe feature at home and moving around, I found that it gave the impression of movement of things that weren't there. For example, the shadows cast off an object or as I went around a corner would move in a jerky fashion, almost like somebody was popping out from around a corner, versus seeing the shadows smoothly change shape with the non-strobe feature as I walked from room to room.

Disorienting? It made my daughters want to dance.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 03:37 PM   #6
fisherman66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2005
Location: Rhome, TX
Posts: 4,641
Anyone remember "Tactical Balls"? Aside from the goofy name, those seem like a marginally better idea.
__________________
la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!
fisherman66 is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 04:02 PM   #7
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
I'm old and light sensitive. strobes bug the heck out of me where they might not bother a younger person nearly as much. If I was really needing to disorient a guy and I was more worried about HD/SD than I was the carpet I'd toss a flash bang at him then hit him with the most powerful flashlight you can afford. $50 dollars will get you a reasonably powered light or you could go all the way up to $4,000+ but not really needed unless you want it to start campfires and fry eggs. Shooting might not be necessary after that and except for his pants, (not your problem), there won't be any blood mess to clean up.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 04:27 PM   #8
claymore1500
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2008
Location: northcoast, Ohio
Posts: 254
I just think it is a bad idea on several levels,

first, a strobe light gives the impression of stop action, even though the bad guy may be moving, In one flash he may appear to be on the other side of the room, the next flash and he could be right in your face.

Second, The strobe, being brighter than ambeient light will make the room seem darker to you, possibly hiding another person in the room with the bad guy (apprentis bad guy).

Third, If you did need to shoot, you would have only a fraction of a second to aquire your target.
__________________
Where there's a will, I want to be in it.
claymore1500 is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 04:36 PM   #9
The Tourist
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2005
Posts: 2,348
I'm glad someone addressed this issue. Many of the modern buys I have made come with equipment rails. I've wondered about the necessity and the actual performance, myself.

When lasers first came out I wondered about the old adage, "If you can see the enemy, he can also see you."

Then I wondered about "playing on an even field." I saw the SureFirer lights advertisement where the LEO lights up a perp who is immediately blinded. My question is that if the perp's eyes were adjusted to the dark, wouldn't this condition also pertain to every LEO in that same room?

Finally, I bought nothing. In the long run I figured if that if the light was so poor that I needed some form of appliance to shoot safely, then I had no business discharging a weapon.
The Tourist is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 04:44 PM   #10
SPUSCG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2008
Posts: 3,004
Also, the light seemed to have 2 lights, a solid light that stayed on and a secondary strobe going at the same time.
__________________
Check us out: www.imfdb.org. Fun site for people who love gun movies.
SPUSCG is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 06:50 PM   #11
S&W Kinda Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2009
Location: Western Kentucky
Posts: 331
i think it would work, when i was 13, i was at a friends b-day party and there was a strobe light and the table looked farther away then it really was due to the strobe, and i tripped and hit my eye on the table had to get 6 stitches
__________________
“If the Third World War is fought with nuclear weapons, the fourth will be fought with bows and arrows.”
S&W Kinda Guy is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 06:54 PM   #12
w_houle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,391
It depends: Does that strobe light come with speakers and disco music?
Hold off on flashlight use until you are close to whomever and flash a your light into their eyes for a fraction of a second, and it will take their night vision for a few seconds.
__________________
How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?
w_houle is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 07:11 PM   #13
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
Better yet, just get disco ball chandeliers and strobe your hall lights, that should do the trick.

There's a reason why this hasn't been used before....if strobe lights worked on the opponet, the army would have them on everything.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 07:17 PM   #14
w_houle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 29, 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,391
Yes, because if you can't dazzle them with style, riddle them with bullets!
__________________
How could you have a slogan like "freedom is slavery" when the concept of freedom has been abolished?
w_houle is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 07:40 PM   #15
Bill DeShivs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2006
Posts: 9,819
Being in the flashlight business (among other things) I get requests for strobes often. I try not to even sell strobes. They do nothing you can't do by simply wiggling a good light across the bad guy's eyes. You need a light with a beam, not one that lights up the entire room-and if you have a very bright light with a good beam you can just put it in the guy's face. He will be blinded for all practical purposes.
__________________
Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler
www.billdeshivs.com
Bill DeShivs is offline  
Old February 6, 2010, 08:11 PM   #16
jhenry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2006
Location: Ozarks
Posts: 1,837
Yes it will. It also takes their night sight for more than just a few secoonds too. It will take about 20 minutes to get it back near where it was after whacking those purple rods with a nice bright light.
__________________
"A Liberal is someone who doesn't care what you do, as long as it's mandatory". - Charles Krauthammer
jhenry is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 10:00 AM   #17
AcridSaint
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 28, 2009
Posts: 407
I liked what Clint Smith has to say on lights - they exist to illuminate your target. Until they come out with one that vaporizes your target, don't rely on the light to protect you. Remember, even disoriented or blind people can pull a trigger pretty fast.
AcridSaint is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 10:29 AM   #18
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,322
I had to exercise my imagination only a bit to see why I disliked the idea.

Prosecutor: Did you use a strobe light on Mr.X?
Defendant: Yes
Prosecutor: Why?
Defendant: To disorient him
Prosecutor: So you were so in fear of your life that you though you should subject Mr X to a strobe light?
Defendant: It was supposed to neutralise him as a threat, disorient him, keep him from being able to spot me and hurt me.
Prosecutor: Did you then shoot Mr. X?
Defendant: Yes, but I was defending myself. X was going to kill me!
Prosecutor: So, you were sure that Mr. X was going to kill you, but you took the time to shine this little strobe light (takes light turns it on and off) which you thought would neutralise the threat, then you shot him?
zukiphile is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 10:49 AM   #19
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 11,996
I think you need more exercise for your imagination. The same argument could be used for the notion of blinding the bad guy before you shoot him. Remember that many companies promote their lights with this sort of advertisement, that the lights will blind the bad guys.

Quote:
Prosecutor: Did you use a bright flashlight on Mr.X?
Defendant: Yes
Prosecutor: Why?
Defendant: To blind him
Prosecutor: So you were so in fear of your life that you though you should subject Mr X to a very bright light?
Defendant: It was supposed to neutralise him as a threat, disorient him, keep him from being able to spot me and hurt me.
Prosecutor: Did you then shoot Mr. X?
Defendant: Yes, but I was defending myself. X was going to kill me!
Prosecutor: So, you were sure that Mr. X was going to kill you, but you took the time to shine this little bright light (takes light turns it on and off) which you thought would neutralise the threat, then you shot him?

However, let's look at the end of the strobe scenario with the prosecutor again. Why would the exchange have to go badly? Changed parts are in bold now. Now our defendent hero sounds like a good guy only wanting to result to lethal force when no other option was available.

Quote:
Defendant: It was supposed to neutralise him as a threat, disorient him, keep him from being able to spot me and hurt me.
Prosecutor: Did you then shoot Mr. X?
Defendant: Yes, because the strobe did not disorient him as advertised and he charged toward the light, trying to chop me up with his ax. I was defending myself. X was going to kill me!
Prosecutor: So, you were sure that Mr. X was going to kill you, but you took the time to shine this little strobe light (takes light turns it on and off) which you thought would neutralise the threat, then you shot him?
Defendent: Yes, because I didn't want to have to shoot him, but he left me not other choice when he charged me.
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 10:50 AM   #20
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 19,875
Not having done formal testing - I'm not impressed with strobes. I've read magazine reports of folks who can't walk a straight line when looking into them, etc.

I've tried it with a Gladius and with some other folks. Doesn't bother us. Of course, we could use precise testing but that's just a quick opinion.

It seems to me that the use is more for law enforcement less that lethal use as compared to civilian HD.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 10:57 AM   #21
black bear 84
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 23, 2005
Posts: 246
I think that they are a bad idea for a pistol light.
I can tolerate them as a function in a flashlight with multiple modes I have several with strobe, and the only reason for using the strobe will be for calling attention to your position if you need help and are unable to cry out.

I tested the strobe function on me and it does nothing (it supposes to nauseate some people), it most be all my disco dancing in the 70's.

I am a proponent of very powerful lights for home defense, when I have to reach for my HD pistol, I do that with my right hand and with the left I grab a Borealis 1050 lumens flashlight, so is no question if the BG will be blinded or not.

One other thing I will not be without is a Crimson Trace laser grip in my HD pistol.
It can give me the advantage of shooting from a covered position, and I don't have to put my face in front of the pistol to hit what I am shooting at.

MY COVERED POSITION



MY COLT GOV'T WITH LASER GRIP AND MY BOREALIS 1050 LUMENS LIGHT



So, my recommendation, is to forget about a light in the pistol, forget about the strobe and get a powerful light and a laser grip.

Cheers
Black Bear
__________________
builder of the BOREALIS 1050 lumens flashlight
http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=169074&page=3
and www.BlackBearFlashlights.com
e-mail [email protected]
black bear 84 is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 11:04 AM   #22
TUFF99
Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2010
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 50
I found in both Iraq and Afghan, a bright tac light in someones face is more than enough. It works more on the guilty. Immagine being a kid and having your hand caught in the cookie jar. That is the same look a BG has when hes been busted. A surprise bright light in the face causes some kind of brain fart.

That being said, I cant do squat with a strobe. It messes with me just as much as with a BG
TUFF99 is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 02:30 PM   #23
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
However, let's look at the end of the strobe scenario with the prosecutor again. Why would the exchange have to go badly?
It wouldn't have to, but it is hard to see how a strobe light figures into a reaction to an immediate and lethal threat. Deploying something like this may suggest that the threat was either not immediate or lethal because you had time for this gizmo.

I believe it is distinguishable from the use of an ordinary flashlight you would use in order to be able to assess the threat.
zukiphile is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 02:35 PM   #24
Double Naught Spy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2001
Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX
Posts: 11,996
You can use a strobe to assess the threat just fine.

With that said, all reactions to lethal threats do not themselves have to be lethal. Many people responding to a lethal threat will do so in ways that are not lethal, often because they don't actually wish to harm or kill the other person. Their actions are just as justifiable and just as valid
__________________
"If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011
My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Double Naught Spy is offline  
Old February 8, 2010, 02:50 PM   #25
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 3,322
Quote:
You can use a strobe to assess the threat just fine.
I believe some in this thread who have used it do not agree. I'e never used one, though I have seen them mounted on the backs of cars.

Quote:
With that said, all reactions to lethal threats do not themselves have to be lethal. Many people responding to a lethal threat will do so in ways that are not lethal, often because they don't actually wish to harm or kill the other person.
It isn't the lack lethality that makes the strobe problemmatic. It is the lack of efficacy as a defensive measure against an immediate and lethal threat, i.e. the sort of threat that calls for the use of deadly force.

If I end up shooting someone, but decided I would try tickling him first just to see if that diffuses the situation, I think there would be some questions about the nature of the threat and my judgement in assessing it. Both of those would be important parts of a public authority decided I had not murdered someone.
zukiphile is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10529 seconds with 8 queries