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View Poll Results: Which is more effective in modern urban combat: the ASSAULT RIFLE, or the SHOTGUN?
Assault Rifle 82 56.16%
Shotgun 64 43.84%
Voters: 146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 23, 2006, 02:53 PM   #1
SpK
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Urban Combat: Shotgun or Assault Rifle?

I thought this would be an interesting thread to post, to see which members believe what type of weapon is more effective in urban combat.

I have grown to love the assault rifle, ever since I first knew what one was. Throughout the years my knoweledge for them grew, and I only liked them even more. Their effectiveness in modern combat goes undeniable. A rifle that shoots an intermediate cartridge with large magazine capacity capability that allows the soldier to carry ammunition in great quantities. The assault rifle is the hallmark of a modern soldier.

Everyone around knows what a shotgun is and does. They are a get down to business type of long gun, putting hunks of lead in large quantities down range with a single shot. Having been used quite effectively in WWII and other major wars as close range manstoppers, they have proven themselves time and time again.

My question is: having been both well documented, which weapon do you think is more effective in modern urban combat?
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Old November 23, 2006, 02:57 PM   #2
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The shotgun for me......

I have used both in combat and the shotgun will get my vote for Urban combat only. Out to about 40-50 yards it will stop what it hits with the buck shot that was issued. Slugs are another story.
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Old November 23, 2006, 03:05 PM   #3
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I'd take an assault rifle of the 7.62 variety, AK or M14 variant.
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Old November 23, 2006, 03:10 PM   #4
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It depends, if you are fighting troops in body armor, a shotgun is not vey effective, and it is also not very effective past 50 meters. With those exceptions though, the shotgun is my choice.
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Old November 23, 2006, 03:51 PM   #5
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IMHO the "Assault Rifle" is more versatile. I own a Steyr AUG-Z in .223 for the TEOTWAWKI type of situations. It gives me 42 rounds of .223 out of a 20" barrel in a short gun only 31" long in total. I'd use M193 or Federal LE223T3 ammo. I also prefer the rifle for scenarios when you need a very precise shot to the brainstem or e.g. a dog going mad on a playground etc...:



The shotgun (12ga in my cases) has it's place though. If the goal is to stop whatever comes charging at you, be it a shizoid-paranoic young man on speed with a knife (I had that in my workplace already) or evil intruders, I'd go for the 12ga. A simple and reliable coach gun puts the whole capacity of a submachinegun into a threat with only two trigger pulls.

So, since the .223 is more versatile, it will be my overall choice. If I know or expect the ranges to be within 20m/yds and no necessity for surgical precision, I'd feel very well equipped with a 12ga. That's why a double barreled coach gun loaded with 00 Buck is handy at my desk at work:

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Old November 23, 2006, 03:51 PM   #6
The Real Wyatt
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Urban combat. House to house fighting, clearing a building one room at a time, securing a village one street at a time. Nothing beats the ol' 12 gauge for that ... nothing.
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Old November 23, 2006, 03:56 PM   #7
shamus005
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Quote:
clearing a building one room at a time .....Nothing beats the ol' 12 gauge for that ... nothing.
grenades work pretty well.
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Old November 23, 2006, 03:59 PM   #8
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Is it OK if I own a couple of each? I'm just not interested in assault rifles, but my leverguns would work out to 100-150yds. The shotguns (#4 buck) maybe out to 30-40yds. The shotgun with #000 Magnum buck will stop any vehicle dead in its tracks with one shot at close range.

You should have included handguns in the poll as well. One of those would probably be the first thing I'd grab for.
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Old November 23, 2006, 04:00 PM   #9
shamus005
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Why choose?




You can have an m16 with a m203 40mm launcher slung underneath. Load the m203 with 40mm buckshot rounds and you have the best of both worlds.
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Old November 23, 2006, 04:12 PM   #10
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In any situation short of Armageddon harm to innocent parties is an important consideration, especially in an urban environment. At the Citizens' Academy the local sheriff informed us that they carry .223 rifles in the car (maybe something more subatantial in the trunk). The reason is that any range at which the pattern is larger than the target some of the pellets will miss and continue downrange, thus possibly injuring uninvolved persons. This is not to say I eschew a shotty as a fighting gun, just that I want the choice of weapons to match the situation.
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Old November 23, 2006, 04:23 PM   #11
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Quote:
The shotgun with #000 Magnum buck will stop any vehicle dead in its tracks with one shot at close range.
What!?
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Old November 23, 2006, 05:54 PM   #12
Para Bellum
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Quote:
The shotgun with #000 Magnum buck will stop any vehicle dead in its tracks with one shot at close range.
sure, I've seen Humvees one-shot-stopped in Iraq with 12ga's
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Old November 23, 2006, 05:55 PM   #13
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Para Bellum

Thanks for the Thanks Giving laugh Para!
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Old November 23, 2006, 06:03 PM   #14
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Id say the AR, if the first one don't get them the 29 behind it will.
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Old November 23, 2006, 06:11 PM   #15
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I'll take a rifle. A rifle will do anything a shotgun will do from 0-50 meters, but a shotgun won't do anything a rifle can do from 50-300 meters. A rifle is lighter when carrying the same ammount of ammo for each. In the correct chambering a rifle will penetrate cover and concealment more readily than a shotgun. I can lay down a base of fire with a rifle while advancing on you as you stuff shells every 6-8 rounds into a shotgun.
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Old November 23, 2006, 07:40 PM   #16
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I have not been in any sort of urban combat, nor do I really think I will be engaged in that sort of stuff in the future.
My choice though, based on my reading, and my preference, would be an AR with 16 inch or less barrel.
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Old November 23, 2006, 07:47 PM   #17
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A pump shot gun with 00 buckshot will get the job done. 12 gauge of course!
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Old November 23, 2006, 07:47 PM   #18
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They both have play a roll in this scenario.....hpg
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Old November 23, 2006, 07:53 PM   #19
Ala Dan
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12 gague Remington 870 Marine Magnum with 00 buckshot, will restore
law and order in urban combat~!
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Old November 23, 2006, 09:35 PM   #20
tony pasley
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Actually both is the best answer because each others a complianment to eachother. the shotgun covers a larger area with each shot, a rifle can reach out father, so my real answer is both because 1 person cannot sweep and clear by themselves you need a squad or more so both weapons can be used to they're best.
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Old November 23, 2006, 11:48 PM   #21
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I feel the rifle is the best combat weapon. No...I've never been in combat. The rifle is a better weapon to me because it works close and far. Its my responsibility to practice.
For those that voted shotgun...I know it is very lethal up close. So is a rifle.Its just that a rifle can reach out...and that may be very much in your favor!
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Old November 24, 2006, 12:09 AM   #22
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I would take the assault because I am a really good point shooter so hitting is no problem for me.
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Old November 24, 2006, 12:14 AM   #23
shamus005
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A pump shotgun's rate of fire: BOOM, chick-chack, BOOM, chick-chack, BOOM

An assault rifle's rate fo fire: BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG


I kinda like the ability to quickly acquisition and take out multiple targets.

If you want he shotgun, just slap an m203 underneath your assault rifle. A 40mm buckshot round makes a 12 gauge shell look like a snap-cap.
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Old November 24, 2006, 01:15 AM   #24
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They both

Have their advantages. Close in, buck or slugs will work on un-armored stuff. The rifle will penetrate better. Better throw in the pistol too.
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Old November 24, 2006, 03:00 AM   #25
BillCA
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Wait a minute!

Quote:
I have grown to love the assault rifle, ever since I first knew what one was.
Do you really know what an assault rifle is?

Let's be clear. It is NOT an AR-15. Nor is it an M1A, SKS or any other semi-automatic rifle, regardless of its configuration.

Assault rifles (Sturmgewehr) are moderately short, light select-fire weapons capable of fully-automatic fire (including burst-mode) which utilize an intermediate-range rifle cartridge with a magazine capacity suitable for suppressive fire as well as accurate semi-automatic fire.

A combat shotgun will have a barrel 18" or less in length and may include a pistol grip and/or folding stock for CQB. There exists a version of the combat shotgun that could be called an "assault shotgun" in that it is select fire and uses either a box or drum magazine.

Let's also note that a shotgun with 00-Buck (9 pellets/round) and a 6 round magazine puts out 54 projectiles while the M16/M4/M14 puts out only 20-30 projectiles. (Think of shotguns as the "original burst mode" gun.)

In urban combat - where house clearing is a standard function - the almost-ideal shotgun would be the late High-Standard Model 10 "bullpup" shotgun or the aforementioned "assault shotgun". In the CQB scenarios of house clearing, the 12 gauge 00 buck round is devastating. Slugs can penetrate solid wood doors and even heavy lathe & plaster walls with surprising ease.

Reality says that your urban combat team should consist of at least one rifleman who has an assault rifle capable of precision shooting. A five man team would consist of two shotguns and two rifles with the 5th man able to go either way since he is the point man in a withdrawl, if necessary.

Thus the shotgun and assault rifle compliment each other in urban combat, instead of fighting for supremacy.

Squad sized teams should include at least one .30 caliber rifle (M14) and/or an M60E4 and one or more members with an M203 grenade launcher on an M16 or M4.
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