Luger question

LaCane · October 5, 2011, 08:55 PM

Have Luger with markings 4/r.r.11.16. From what I see so far from research, That would mean 1st Squadron, horseman regiment 11, 16th weapon. The serial numbers that I can see all seem to match. However, I see a lot of people mentioning matching #'s in the magazine. It looks like it matches the gun but there are no numbers on it that I can see, unless you have to take the thing apart. The pistol stamped 1916/1920. It does have the import info. stamped under the brl. Gun is in real nice shape...any info you guys can provide other than what I know and what you think the value is?
Thanks

James K · October 5, 2011, 09:43 PM

It is impossible to evaluate that pistol without good pictures of each side and of the markings, but this might help.

Lugers were shipped from the factory with two magazines numbered to the gun (including the letter suffix if any). Over time, most of those magazines were swapped or lost and replaced, so a Luger with one matching magazine is uncommon today and one with both magazines is quite rare. Most collectors want matched magazines (and will pay more for them), but will overlook the mismatch if the gun is in nice condition.

The double date stamping came about when the post-WWI German government tried to round up all the military weapons in the hands of veterans and civilians. They first paid a bounty and many weapons were turned in; when the bounty was cut off, the turn-ins dwindled (duh!). The law mandated that all guns in military and police inventory as well as those turned in be marked with "1920", the date of the law. It really was not a date, but more like a government property mark. Judging by the number of WWI Lugers captured in WWII that do not have the "1920", it is obvious that the requirement to mark all the pistols in inventory was not widely followed.

I am not expert enough in military markings to dispute your reading, but FWIW I think the first number is always the regiment number, then the regiment type, then the squadron or company, then the gun number. So I would read 4./R.R.11.16. as Fourth Reiter-Regiment, Squadron 11, weapon 16.

Jim

mapsjanhere · October 6, 2011, 07:30 AM

One slight correction, the RR is standing for (infantry) Reserve Regiment. Cavalry units were marked depending on their unit type, e. g. UR for ulanen regiment.

James K · October 6, 2011, 02:39 PM

Well, maybe. German Small Arms Markings shows that marking, on pages 64 and 67. I think we need pictures, LaCane.

Jim

October 5, 2011, 08:55 PM	#1
LaCane Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Posts: 28	Luger question Have Luger with markings 4/r.r.11.16. From what I see so far from research, That would mean 1st Squadron, horseman regiment 11, 16th weapon. The serial numbers that I can see all seem to match. However, I see a lot of people mentioning matching #'s in the magazine. It looks like it matches the gun but there are no numbers on it that I can see, unless you have to take the thing apart. The pistol stamped 1916/1920. It does have the import info. stamped under the brl. Gun is in real nice shape...any info you guys can provide other than what I know and what you think the value is? Thanks

October 6, 2011, 07:30 AM	#3
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	One slight correction, the RR is standing for (infantry) Reserve Regiment. Cavalry units were marked depending on their unit type, e. g. UR for ulanen regiment. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 5, 2011, 09:43 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	It is impossible to evaluate that pistol without good pictures of each side and of the markings, but this might help. Lugers were shipped from the factory with two magazines numbered to the gun (including the letter suffix if any). Over time, most of those magazines were swapped or lost and replaced, so a Luger with one matching magazine is uncommon today and one with both magazines is quite rare. Most collectors want matched magazines (and will pay more for them), but will overlook the mismatch if the gun is in nice condition. The double date stamping came about when the post-WWI German government tried to round up all the military weapons in the hands of veterans and civilians. They first paid a bounty and many weapons were turned in; when the bounty was cut off, the turn-ins dwindled (duh!). The law mandated that all guns in military and police inventory as well as those turned in be marked with "1920", the date of the law. It really was not a date, but more like a government property mark. Judging by the number of WWI Lugers captured in WWII that do not have the "1920", it is obvious that the requirement to mark all the pistols in inventory was not widely followed. I am not expert enough in military markings to dispute your reading, but FWIW I think the first number is always the regiment number, then the regiment type, then the squadron or company, then the gun number. So I would read 4./R.R.11.16. as Fourth Reiter-Regiment, Squadron 11, weapon 16. Jim

October 6, 2011, 02:39 PM	#4
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Well, maybe. German Small Arms Markings shows that marking, on pages 64 and 67. I think we need pictures, LaCane. Jim