Odd Mauser 98 short rifle - ID?

Moloch · July 4, 2016, 08:41 AM

Hey guys!

A friend of mine has recently acquired a Mauser 98, or what appears to be a veeery short version of it! I've never seen anything like it before and I wonder if any of you can identify it?

He showed it to me and I could not see any crest or stamps, just a MOD 98 on the receiver bridge. Caliber is 8x57 mauser, rear sight is a 200-1400m small leaf sight, the overall length is only about 37 inches, it has the washboard-buttplate and overall condition is breathtaking.
Actually a little too good.

He did not allow me to disassemble it to look for further markings.

It looks very much like a G33/40, size-wise. .

I took pictures though:

gyvel · July 4, 2016, 10:07 AM

A picture of the serial number would have been helpful. Sometimes the font can add extra clues.

It does bear a passing resemblance to some FN Dutch and Belgian Police carbines that have appeared on the market in the last 20-15 years or so.

Moloch · July 4, 2016, 10:36 AM

I only got a short glimpse on the serial number but I remember it was a 6 digit number.

There was no FN marking on the receiver bridge though, nor anywhere else on the rifle, for that matter.

P5 Guy · July 4, 2016, 10:53 AM

I had one that size in .30'06. Several folks said it was a police rifle from Colombia, SA?

gyvel · July 4, 2016, 03:07 PM

It's been a while since I have seen one of those "Police Carbines," but the last one I remember seeing is one with a "Crown J" for Queen Juliana of the Netherlands on top of the receiver. It was offered to me for $600.00, but, at the time, that was waaaay more than I wanted to spend on a gun like that. (It's probably worth at least that now. LOL)

From the pics, it looks too well made to be Yugoslavian or Spanish, and that leaves the usual suspects, i.e. FN or Steyr. I guess, if the owner ever disassembles it, you will have to look at the proofs and inspection marks to identify it.

gyvel · July 4, 2016, 03:10 PM

Quote:

I had one that size in .30'06. Several folks said it was a police rifle from Colombia, SA?

Colombian Mausers, for the most part, were Steyr guns that were reworked to .30-06. There will be a cut in the top of the receiver to allow the longer .30-06 to be stripped into the magazine, as the original calibre was (IIRC) 7mm. I have a couple, and, while serviceable, the workmanship doesn't approach that of the OP's pics.

I will say this, though: Whatever the calibre, they're not too pleasant to shoot.

Moloch · July 4, 2016, 03:23 PM

The caliber is 8x57 mauser and there is no receiver crest. I'll ask the owner if he can send me pictures of any markings under the wood line.

Could it be one of those infamous Mitchell Mauser 63 tanker carbines?

http://www.mauser.org/m-63-mauser-tanker-rifle/

As for not being too pleasant to shoot, I could totally handle it, I have fun shooting 7lbs single shot slug guns shot from the bench.

gyvel · July 4, 2016, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Could it be one of those infamous Mitchell Mauser 63 tanker carbines?

Mmmmmmmm Could be...

But 8x57 isn't listed as one of the available calibres.

Whatever it is, it sure looks nice in the pics.

JT-AR-MG42 · July 4, 2016, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Could it be one of those infamous Mitchell Mauser 63 tanker carbines?

The carbine looks both vintage and straight to me.
I doubt the workmanship on the Mitchell's could approach the pictured carbine
(to keep costs down - not intended to knock Mitchell's).

I'm with gyvel, can't think of anyone other than FN.

I was going to add BRNO to the mix until I looked at the front band/top wood hand guard relationship.
I do not recall the Czechs ever using the 'heavy' GEW 98 early style trigger guard either.

Not like any Czech carbine I recall, so back to FN.

Say Moloch, if your pal yards the gun apart, have him send better photos of that cleaning rod too.
Never have seen one that short!

JT

Moloch · July 4, 2016, 07:59 PM

Thanks, I'll ask him to let me do a couple more photos tomorrow.

This carbine is an odd little fella. Its appears vintage but at the same time the bluing is absolutely perfect and everything on it looks like it was manufactured yesterday.

Moloch · July 5, 2016, 05:58 AM

So we disassembled the rifle together and found a ton of stamps!

Is that early Armenian 3100 BC cuneiform script?

The cleaning rod of the carbine is the middle one, its actually longer than that of a K98k, but it goes in much deeper creating the illusion of a really short cleaning rod. The top one is a K98k cleaning rod and the bottom one one from a Gewehr 98. The cleaning rod is also much thicker and heavier than the G98 and K98 rod.

mapsjanhere · July 5, 2016, 07:31 AM

The 79 set is Belgian, the 96 set is German. Why the gun was proofed twice is beyond me, as the Germans consider the Belgian proof valid. Unless it's a German remanufacture using an existing FN system. Does it have US import markings somewhere under the barrel (assuming it's in the US

)?

Moloch · July 5, 2016, 08:19 AM

It does not have any US import markings, the rifle has probably never left Europe as the owner and I live in good 'ole Austria!

So it is Belgian after all, or at least the barrel is?

P5 Guy · July 5, 2016, 11:42 AM

The one I had was FN Herstal made serial #120 no other markings on the receiver. The caliber was on the barrel .30'06.
While I no longer have it a friend does. So, who was the gun made for?

mapsjanhere · July 5, 2016, 12:19 PM

Moloch, when I first looked at the gun I thought it was modified from a non-98 stock, looking at the thickness of the wood around the rings and the wood going around the sights. My guess is that it was custom manufactured in Germany in the 90's using a Belgian made barrel that had been previously used (as barrels typically don't get proofed unless they're set into a receiver). Could have been the receiver it's in now, but unlikely as just setting it in a new stock wouldn't have required a re-proof. Don't know if German rules require a proof if just the barrel is shortened (for example after a damaged muzzle made rework necessary).

Moloch · July 5, 2016, 02:16 PM

@mapsjanhere

That was my suspicion as well when I first saw the rifle, it looks like a custom job using some original parts. I'm not sure about the proof testings either but I've heard numerous times that any modification to the barrel (besides installing sights) does indeed require proof testing in Germany.

Either way, its still a very nicely made rifle, the quality is outstanding. And its a 98.

I'll tell the owner about the -possible- history of the gun.

gyvel · July 5, 2016, 02:40 PM

Overall, it looks like a typical "police carbine."

mapsjanhere · July 5, 2016, 03:16 PM

Moloch, if it would have been a simple "Instandsetzungsbeschuss" for shortening the barrel the mark should be an eagle over J. But I found a lot of conflicting information on whether shortening the barrel requires proofing. Seems like the German proof offices work it similar to the ATF - whatever they feel like. Some demand reproof as work on a relevant part of the gun, others don't as just cutting off the barrel doesn't affect any high-pressure parts.

Moloch · July 5, 2016, 06:54 PM

Thanks a lot for your expertise, mapsjanhere!

July 4, 2016, 10:07 AM	#2
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	A picture of the serial number would have been helpful. Sometimes the font can add extra clues. It does bear a passing resemblance to some FN Dutch and Belgian Police carbines that have appeared on the market in the last 20-15 years or so. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

July 4, 2016, 03:07 PM	#5
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	It's been a while since I have seen one of those "Police Carbines," but the last one I remember seeing is one with a "Crown J" for Queen Juliana of the Netherlands on top of the receiver. It was offered to me for $600.00, but, at the time, that was waaaay more than I wanted to spend on a gun like that. (It's probably worth at least that now. LOL) From the pics, it looks too well made to be Yugoslavian or Spanish, and that leaves the usual suspects, i.e. FN or Steyr. I guess, if the owner ever disassembles it, you will have to look at the proofs and inspection marks to identify it. __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

July 5, 2016, 11:42 AM	#14
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	Not Columbian The one I had was FN Herstal made serial #120 no other markings on the receiver. The caliber was on the barrel .30'06. While I no longer have it a friend does. So, who was the gun made for?

July 5, 2016, 12:19 PM	#15
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Moloch, when I first looked at the gun I thought it was modified from a non-98 stock, looking at the thickness of the wood around the rings and the wood going around the sights. My guess is that it was custom manufactured in Germany in the 90's using a Belgian made barrel that had been previously used (as barrels typically don't get proofed unless they're set into a receiver). Could have been the receiver it's in now, but unlikely as just setting it in a new stock wouldn't have required a re-proof. Don't know if German rules require a proof if just the barrel is shortened (for example after a damaged muzzle made rework necessary). __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

July 5, 2016, 02:40 PM	#17
gyvel Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2009 Location: Northern AZ Posts: 7,172	Overall, it looks like a typical "police carbine." __________________ As always, YMMV. __________________________________________ MIIAA SIFE

July 4, 2016, 08:41 AM	#1
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Odd Mauser 98 short rifle - ID? Hey guys! A friend of mine has recently acquired a Mauser 98, or what appears to be a veeery short version of it! I've never seen anything like it before and I wonder if any of you can identify it? He showed it to me and I could not see any crest or stamps, just a MOD 98 on the receiver bridge. Caliber is 8x57 mauser, rear sight is a 200-1400m small leaf sight, the overall length is only about 37 inches, it has the washboard-buttplate and overall condition is breathtaking. Actually a little too good. He did not allow me to disassemble it to look for further markings. It looks very much like a G33/40, size-wise. . I took pictures though: Last edited by Moloch; July 4, 2016 at 09:07 AM.

July 4, 2016, 10:36 AM	#3
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	I only got a short glimpse on the serial number but I remember it was a 6 digit number. There was no FN marking on the receiver bridge though, nor anywhere else on the rifle, for that matter.

July 4, 2016, 10:53 AM	#4
P5 Guy Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 1,804	I had one that size in .30'06. Several folks said it was a police rifle from Colombia, SA?

July 4, 2016, 03:23 PM	#7
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	The caliber is 8x57 mauser and there is no receiver crest. I'll ask the owner if he can send me pictures of any markings under the wood line. Could it be one of those infamous Mitchell Mauser 63 tanker carbines? http://www.mauser.org/m-63-mauser-tanker-rifle/ As for not being too pleasant to shoot, I could totally handle it, I have fun shooting 7lbs single shot slug guns shot from the bench.

July 4, 2016, 07:59 PM	#10
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Thanks, I'll ask him to let me do a couple more photos tomorrow. This carbine is an odd little fella. Its appears vintage but at the same time the bluing is absolutely perfect and everything on it looks like it was manufactured yesterday.

July 5, 2016, 05:58 AM	#11
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	So we disassembled the rifle together and found a ton of stamps! Is that early Armenian 3100 BC cuneiform script? The cleaning rod of the carbine is the middle one, its actually longer than that of a K98k, but it goes in much deeper creating the illusion of a really short cleaning rod. The top one is a K98k cleaning rod and the bottom one one from a Gewehr 98. The cleaning rod is also much thicker and heavier than the G98 and K98 rod.

July 5, 2016, 07:31 AM	#12
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	The 79 set is Belgian, the 96 set is German. Why the gun was proofed twice is beyond me, as the Germans consider the Belgian proof valid. Unless it's a German remanufacture using an existing FN system. Does it have US import markings somewhere under the barrel (assuming it's in the US )? __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

July 5, 2016, 08:19 AM	#13
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	It does not have any US import markings, the rifle has probably never left Europe as the owner and I live in good 'ole Austria! So it is Belgian after all, or at least the barrel is?

July 5, 2016, 02:16 PM	#16
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	@mapsjanhere That was my suspicion as well when I first saw the rifle, it looks like a custom job using some original parts. I'm not sure about the proof testings either but I've heard numerous times that any modification to the barrel (besides installing sights) does indeed require proof testing in Germany. Either way, its still a very nicely made rifle, the quality is outstanding. And its a 98. I'll tell the owner about the -possible- history of the gun.

July 5, 2016, 03:16 PM	#18
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	Moloch, if it would have been a simple "Instandsetzungsbeschuss" for shortening the barrel the mark should be an eagle over J. But I found a lot of conflicting information on whether shortening the barrel requires proofing. Seems like the German proof offices work it similar to the ATF - whatever they feel like. Some demand reproof as work on a relevant part of the gun, others don't as just cutting off the barrel doesn't affect any high-pressure parts. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

July 5, 2016, 06:54 PM	#19
Moloch Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2005 Posts: 1,419	Thanks a lot for your expertise, mapsjanhere!