Howa 1500 or.....?

[pmsmith2032]

Assuming the Howa 1500 rifle (in .30-06) is the best rifle at the $500 price point, how much more would I have to spend to get a better rifle? I'm not interested in aesthetics (not interested in a fancy wood stock....going to buy synthetic) but rather am looking for quality, reliability and accuracy. Thanks!

[F. Guffey]

I do not know, a senior citizen from Washington got involved in a shooting contest in the early '20s; the old gentleman did not take a rifle but was competition against professionals. I thought it was nice of them because they loaned him a rifle, he wasted time with the loaner and got another one. After that they took him 'a building' where they had racks of rifles; from the racks he selected a non descript rifle and then returned to the contest.

He never said there was something wrong with his ammo. Before the day came to an end he made a big impression on his competition but because of the time spent finding a rifle he struggled as he lost daylight.

I purchased a Ross 1905 for $80.00, my opinion the rifle is one ugly rifle but when it comes to accuracy without a scope it is difficult to improve upon. I paid $120.00 for a rifle that was voted the ugliest rifle ever 'porterised'. The gigglers on reloading forums had a field day; I could not see how anyone could build a rifle that ugly without knowing what he was doing so I bid and won.

I drove the back roads to the range to avoid being seen with it. After running 120 rounds through it with 12 different loads and 12 different head stamps, bullets and powder I decide to apply the leaver policy; I leafter the way I founder. And then there was the Santa Fe/National Arm, I paid $150 for the Springfield 03. The rifle cam with 2 boxes of Remington 30/06 Ammo. The seller of the rifle could not give it away at a gun show because the dealers broke into some kind of a routine condemning the California Gun works. After determining there was nothing that could be done with the rifle that would improve accuracy I again applied the leaver policy. I could have added a scope mount, rings and scope and when it came to reloading for the rifle it liked everything.

I purchased a last ditch German Mauser 98, the barrel and action had been hot dipped, the finish on the stock was 'shoe polish' and the bands were cut from tin. I though the bullets were tumbling, I was impressed with the rifle when I found the small groups were in the patter of a 4 leaf clover.

F. Guffey

[Doyle]

The basic Howa 1500 is also sold as the Weatherby Vanguard. You can find them for less than $500 if you are patient (sometimes a lot less - like when Walmart puts one on clearance). In the same price category and also known for accuracy is the T/C Venture.

That being said, don't overlook used rifles. In all my life of buying and selling firearms, I can think of only a handful of firearms I've bought as new. I'd much rather buy a well-cared for used gun and save my money for scope, ammo, etc.

[taylorce1]

There are rifles that are cheaper than $500 that are going to be have quality, reliability, and accuracy. One that comes to mind is the T/C Venture rifle with its MOA guarantee for $350 for blued and $450 for Weathershield. The only thing with the T/C you won't get is a lot of aftermarket support in the way of different stocks that you can get with the Howa. If you are a service member or veteran you can get a $75 rebate on top of the T/C as well, closer to hunting season they usually offer a $75 rebate to everyone as well.

Weatherby Vanguard rifles are built off the Howa platform and usually can find some priced under $500 to start. Right now you can go down to your Walmart if they sell guns and get a Vanguard Select for less than $350. My local Sportsmans Warehouse seems to sell the Howa 1500 rifles for $399 on a regular basis. The only $500 Howa rifles I ever see are the ones with the Nikko Sterling scope installed, I'd probably opt out of that one and choose a different scope on a .30-06.

The only thing I see that you get from stepping up in price from the standard Howa 1500 is a better stock. The Howa uses a Houge style stock that has neither the aluminium bedding block or chassis. So you're left with an extremely flexible stock, that if using from a bipod or with a sling can cause POI shifts from zero.

What I would consider the first step up would be the Bergara B14, Tikka T3x Lite, Kimber Hunter, Weatherby Vanguard Wilderness and Sauer Classic 100 XT. With these rifles you get a much stiffer synthetic stock and will put you into the $600-800 price range. You'll also get better fit and finish over the entry level rifles so I'd say you'd have a step up in quality.

As far as accuracy goes, the potential is there as a few come with MOA guarantee. However, most of these rifles will weigh 7 lbs or less when scoped and in .30-06 they'll be a lot more difficult to shoot than the standard Howa 1500 rifle especially when you start shooting 165+ grain ammunition. For that reason I'd probably opt for .308 once you start going sub 7 lbs in a rifle.

Reliability, that's a tough one as a properly maintained even a cheap rifle will be reliable. I'd say in this area they pretty much all wash out with your pick of a Howa 1500. They are all push feed rifles except the Kimber Hunter which is Controlled Round Feed (CRF) and has a claw extractor. If that's important to you then the Kimber is your only choice.

[eastbank]

last Thursday I bought two weatherby vanguard selects, one in 270 and the other in 3006 for 249.00+ tax a piece at a local walmart.

[Dufus]

I bought a Howa barreled action from Brownells (heavy barrel version) and bought a Hogue full bed stock. The stock was drop in and was a good tight fit.

Brownells has a deal going on with Howa and are very resonably priced IMO.

[T. O'Heir]

A scoped (doesn't say what brand). Savage doesn't use the cheap low end stuff anymore though.) Savage Axis XP runs $335.00(cash price. $345.05 retail.) at Bud's. $299.97 at Cabela's. Granted an Axis is an entry level hunting rifle, but it's as good quality, reliable and accurate as any other commercial hunting rifle.
Mind you, you can get a Howa 1500 for $429.99 at Sportsmen's Warehouse. So shop around. Especially if you're buying online. Look on Cabela's site. M700 SPS(also an entry level hunting rifle) Varmint in .308 Win are on sale for $499.97.
The scope, bases and rings will cost you too.
https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/
Oh and Ruger Americans are $429.99 at Cabela's. A scoped Rem M700 ADL runs $459.99. None of 'em are 'better'. Just less expensive for basically the same thing.

[Wyosmith]

In my opinion the Howa offerings are at the very top of the heap when it comes to a push-feed rifle. No other push-feed out there is better. Some are 'nicer" in fit and finish, but as far as function goes, the Howa is as good as you can buy (I think the Ruger American is as good too, so I believe it's a 2 way tie)
The HOWA has one weakness, and it's something I correct before I build a rifle with one of their actions. Their bolt stop screw is far too light. I take it out and throw it away, and I re-drill and tap to a 8X40 screw so the bolt stop doesn't come loose at a bad time. I have fixed about 7 of them in the last few years, so I just do the fix before I even make a stock for one. But other then that I have zero bad things to say about a HOWA action.

If more reliable is what you want you need to look to the next step up, which is controlled feed.

Some of the reliability is not because of the fact the CF extractors are stronger (although they are) but is because CF feeding covers a few sins involving bad ammo that push feed doesn't. In a CF action if the round binds, you yank back on the bolt and it clears the problem child from the gun and you are back in business. With a push feed you may need a rod to clear the gun at times.
So overall, in extremes, controlled feed is "better".

That means a Mauser type extractor in most cases. In that group you have the Mausers of the 98 design and it's copies, the CZ 550, the Ruger M77 Mk2, and the Winchester M70 CF actions. All can be as accurate as the Howa, all are as strong or stronger (which really doesn't matter because they all are far stronger then they need to be) and all have stronger more reliable extractors.

Many of them can be found used, occasionally for around $500, depending on condition, but I doubt you'll find a new commercial controlled feed rifle for $500 or less.

I like Controlled feed on every rifle I can get it on, but I don't demand it on all of them. ARs and AKs as well as M-1 Garands have push feed extractors and they are not known to fail much. My Mossberg has a push feed action. So does my SAKO. I still like those rifles. All lever actions have push feed extractors and I like my Marlins and my Brownings just fine.

So keeping things in prospective, the "need" for a controlled feed action, to my way of thinking at least, is "mission driven". I really want controlled feed on bolt actions in calibers I may (and have ) hunted dangerous game with. However if I can get it on a deer rifle I'll take it. One action I am very fond of is the CZ527, which is controlled-feed, but is a rifle I'd use for rabbits and marmots. I like the CF feature even though I doubt I'll get killed by a Cape Rabbit if my weapon jams.

I have to acknowledge this fact. In my military days, I hunted the most dangerous game there is. Enemies! They hunted me back too. I used push-feed rifles (M-16s and FALs) And they used push feed rifles (AK-47s and SKSs)

Just food for thought.



But to answer the question as to what is "better" then a HOWA .....................I would say "not much."

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by eastbank

last Thursday I bought two weatherby vanguard selects, one in 270 and the other in 3006 for 249.00+ tax a piece at a local walmart.

I have two Walmart stores within 30 miles of my house and unfortunately they aren't running that deal.

[DPris]

Concur with Wyo.
Denis

[jmr40]

I'm pretty sure all Walmarts HAD them at $250 last weekend. Problem is they sold out in hours.

I have other options that I like better, but have to agree that at the price point they are a lot of rifle. I've owned several over the years, including a Howa and other than excessive weight have no other issues. But the excessive weight is the deal breaker for me.

There are several other options weighing 1.5 lbs or more lighter that will do the same thing that are priced within $50 of the 1500 series. Some priced lower than the 1500.

The Ruger American is a $350 rifle that weighs 6.25 lbs compared to 7 3/4 lbs for the 1500. A Tikka will weigh about the same as a Ruger and can be found for around $500 in blue.

All 3 of those are very comparable. But my goal in a hunting rifle is to keep weight between 7-8 lbs scoped and ready to hunt with about 7.25-7.5 being ideal. The 1500 is heavier than that before scope and mounts.

[pmsmith2032]

Thanks! Rifle will be used for deer hunting (deep woods/northern Wisconsin). Weight isn't much of an issue (and heavier is probably better....less recoil) as almost all of my hunting is done from a stand.

[dgludwig]

For $500.00 or less (even more), I would argue that no one makes a better rifle than Howa-in terms of accuracy, reliability, workmanship, finish and quality of materials.

[pmsmith2032]

Ended up with a Weatherby Vanguard V2 in 30-06. Got it at Walmart for $249. Thanks everyone!

[Doyle]

That is a great rifle. Same action as the Howa 1500. I personally watched my old hunting buddy take one of those Walmart Vanguards, sit in a broken lawn chair with a set of shooting sticks, shoot right at 490 yds, and place 3 shots that you could cover with your hand using factory ammo.

I've only seen one of them that wouldn't shoot great right from the factory. That one was brought into hunt camp and that same buddy above took it to his house to play with it. He found that the stock was not inletted right and was torquing the action. A few minutes with a Dremel tool and a home-bedding job turned it into the sub-MOA gun that the others are.

[rms65]

I have a pencil barreled Howa Mini-action 223 that I got from whittaker for $329 and it easily shoots sub moa groups out from the first cold barrel shot through a 10 round clip. Then I'll l let it cool. So impressed with the rifle I purchased a Howa 1500 sporter in 308 for my son to hunt deer. Again whittaker for $329 and that rifle shoots sub MOA also. He's shot 1" groups @ 200 and easily hits 4" gongs @ 300. Not sure if it made any difference but I did do Howa's recommended barrel break in procedure. I have 2 Tikka T3Xs that cost a bit more that are also a great value rifle but they are only more refined and have nothing on the Howa's accuracy and functionality. For pure utility you can't beat the Howa's when you can find them within a 100 bucks of a flimsy stocked Savage axis.

[Nathan]

Your next step up is a better stock...

[rms65]

Sorry, I missed that you already purchased your rifle. Great price btw. Good luck to you. Fwiw, the hogue stocks although not pretty are actually pretty good for the money.
Best of luck.

[Ballenxj]

I've got a Howa 1500 in 308, and it seems to be pretty accurate. I looked into their build quality a bit, and was impressed with what I found. One thing to note it they are built using metrics as opposed to inches which most Americans are accustomed to. If you're OK with that, (I was) you're good to go.
Here's a site showing Howa build quality, which includes hammer forged barrels, and decent triggers.
http://www.howarifles.eu/1.html