Excuse me- may I be of assistance sir?

[sm]

I went outside to smoke and see if the chipmunks were playing. Parked at the end of my street is the postal truck. Then I noticed a plain compact car pull up behind the postal truck. This is NOT unusal, as my street ends in a cul-de-sac, so folks often park down at the cross street and do whatever walking their jobs may require. Postal service, Meter readers, Supervisors for UPS, Garbage trucks, etc.

I heard the mail being inserted into mail box, it'll be there when I get to it, I was in the midst of typing something. Smoke break, and the Postal Truck is gone, compact is still parked, engine running, and the driver best I can tell is on a cell phone. Humm...okay not really humid - yet, still , well maybe he don't care if he burns up someone else's gas on the job, he may have gotten a bit warm being out and about and maybe I missed that.

Now this area is NOT the best area . We have had car jackings just down the way, the elderly folks especially have been known to get followed home and "bothered" in the driveway/ carport. Some nasty break-ins while folks home just over that-away.

My gut is telling me " this ain't normal".

So with tennis shoes, jeans, untucked shirt, CCW - I grab an extra mag and stick in back pocket. Yard has a fence on back property line, and one side.
I peer out the back and there is a guy in some kind of logo shirt,( polo style) binocs, some kind of badge clipped to his shirt. "Maybe" a utility company is going to trim the trees to power lines, or Comcast again checking to see if folks stealing cable. He was looking with binocs and using a cell phone.

I leave via the front door, and lock it. You don't wander around outside here with a entrance unlocked. I walk around the side to the back.

This guy was talking on a cell phone, pulling on the locked door that gives access to under this house!

Excuse me- may I be of assistance sir? Talk about a "deer in the headlight" look.

"I'm with the 'Utility Company". he said .

I asked which one.

He looked up in the air..."oh just contracted to do Utility inspections in general"

I then asked why a "general" inspection included checking to see if the lock worked on access door to under the house.

I mean maybe it is part of Homeland Security, War on Drugs, Terroism, maybe an escaped deranged seat belt on the lamb or something...

He asks me to step closer to see his badge. I suggested if his legit to stay there, toss the badge my way. I assure him I will apologize if my negative suspicisons are unfounded. I can hear a voice on his cell phone, his hands are out in plain view, palms up and showing "openess" and "innocence". His shirt does NOT have a logo of any kind, just a polo type shirt.

I hear a car rev up,hear the brakes screech and 'General Utility' takes off in dead run. I move closer to house ( brick) and stay close as I make my way to the corner where I take quick peek and pull back in.

Seems the vehicle that was parked behind Postal Truck, pulled up my street past the house next door, but not far enough to my house. Once the Utility driver get in passenger in, backs down the street, and speeds off.

I call the direct line to the po-po and give descrptions of the guy, and car. We don't have front license plates here, and no visible markings or stickers on the vehicle.

My gut says the neighborhood was being cased, I said so to the nice Officer on the phone. Too many years of 'another life" causes my gut to talk to me.
Officer thanked me and said yes, sounds like what is going on.

Reason I call direct is due to life experiences and 911. I remember when we didn't have 911.

Since I had to call the po-po not long ago and met them away from here, I thought "maybe" that was an umarked car. Not a good idea to see the po-po pull up at one's house - the BGs tend to retaliate about stuff like that around here.

I get a return call from the po-po and to the best of their knowledge and fter checking , no unmarked cars in my area, and the Utility companies did not have anyone contracted to be in my neighborhood either.

I was concealed the whole time. I never made a move toward my CCW. Only thing I had visible was a styrofoam cup of coffee in weak hand, and my smokes "printing" in shirt pocket. I looked like goofy homeowner out wandering in the yard.

Folks wonder why folks CCW at home. Folks wonder how folks get pegged and broken into, home invaded,or attacked in driveways/carports/ or garages.

One never knows the where or when of next encounter -CRSam.

The patio door has holes drilled and BIG nails to keep from coming out of tracks, as do the windows. Even at home, and in the yard I lock doors and CCW.

Watching six is good, watching 360 and the neighborhood ain't a bad idea either.

Steve

[PythonGuy]

Just think, if you didn't play "Dick Tracy" and called 911 as soon as your gut told you something was wrong, the police could have caught the guys and you would have done your neighborhood a service. Your logic is all wrong.

[sm]

Update:

I get a nice call from the po-po. Seems a officer recalls during doing a interview with folks in another neighborhood some "general inspections" were being done. Folks described seeing a guy(s) with polo shirt, binocs - etc. These could be legit utilty guys, then again some matters did occur in that neighborhood.

I said "Sure, you haul a car or folks I'll do a ID ...can I sit in Wendy's or something while they are outside?" I said this to the nice lady officer I met at Wendy's on that other dealie not long ago.

With a laugh " you wouldn't be avoiding coming to the station because of something now would you?"

"Like what?"

"You kinda grinned when I mentioned CCW was avail here, and "you might look into it".

"Hey , you know I cannot reveal that "if" I do.

"What if I pull you over - then you gotta" .

Yeah well so she got me and figured it out.

"I'll let you park in po-po lot and promise to keep an eye on you and your vehicle if we need you to come down".

She is gonna think about letting me play with the lights and siren - gee this might be a fun day afterall.

[sm]

PythonGuy

I beg to differ.

I have been out in the yard when the legit Utility folks did come into the yard.
I have also been out in the yard when a person on dope staggered up as well.

Yes I could be wrong. I have spent some time in another life, part of which was with the public. If one calls out to a "customer" 'shoplifter' - the employee is in deep trouble if nothing is shoplifted.

If a LEO or Security calls a "customer" a shoplifter - they too had be pretty damn sure and have witness, security tape, or something to back it up.

My logic was to be John Q Public. Granted now knowing someone (me) was observant puts me in the spotlight for BGs or whatever. Now if BGs get pulled over for traffic stop, running a stop sign, the officers have a legit reason for asking questions. Especially if the license plate matches to partial given in another neighborhood. Prefer to see a "sound case" if you will. Not a case bounced out on a technical glitch.


I'll let others give thier views, be interested in to what the LEO folks have to say.

Never said I was right, just my thinking and actions differ[ed] from yours. Again some of this based on my life experiences. Just shared so all could think about their neighborhoods and safeguards. I will learn from discussions as well.

Steve

[spacemanspiff]

i figured SM to be doing more sherlock holmes than dick tracy.

except holmes would then be some weird parallel universe persona that hails from a place that allows him to carry a gun.

[PythonGuy]

If you buy into quantum physics then this could be that universe Spiffy! Then again, Watson carried.

[sm]

Gee Spiffy- I don't smoke a pipe.

Maybe I should have just called the po-po - again as I started to type this reply- seems there is some guy wandering around delivering the other "yellow pages" today. Granted the guy a pickup truck bed full of the things - neat disguise- huh?

I have had various persons on property in the last month. I will be having folks on property.

Had a new auto garage door opener installed, estimates for some home improvements, having some improvements made, the HVAC guy was out for the normal inspections, Bug Exterminator & one home improvement guy did have to use access door to check under the house, Had a new screen door installed, the meter reader for Electricity was out and we did discuss the tree trimming, had a guy give estimate to cut down a tree and haul off...

Judgments and Perceptions.

This Forum exists to share and learn. Life is not always black and white. Folks have to deal responsibly with the decisons made on black, white , or tinges of gray decisions. Awareness training is a vital part of this.

This "could" have in fact been the folks sent out as a result of my talk with the Electric folks. I have done so before.

The screen door was installed late on a Sat. I get a call Monday asking if I had discoverd a tape measure, the son of one of the installers could not find his. They took the old door and all, I did check my city trash can in the event it was tossed with the sacks containing hardware. Tape attached itself to a sack and the kid tossed it in as they were leaving. Another helper was near hear, ran by and picked it up.

I have been on ride-alongs. The scariest time is when a LEO pulls over a car. An officer has to use prudent awareness and judgment, comes from training and experience. 10am the mom swerved, seems Jr spit out his pacifer - again and she took her eyes off the road for a split second. Officer ws polite, did not issue a warning or ticket. He has BTDT and remembers how Jr's are.

Now the guy at 2 am was a whole different story - he had had too many "pacifiers". Got a little "upset" when asked to do line walks...he could almost do them crawlling - almost.

So though I don't trust folks, being a human being I do to some degree. I don't going around all paranoid, wringing my hands , or adjusting my tin foil hat. I would like to believe there is some common courtesy and civil behavior still exists in society to some degree.

So yep if this was a BG and I screwed up by not calling 911- I screwed up. I do not use 911 - I prefer to call direct for reasons based on MY life experiences.

Maybe the officer and I screwed up too with that mom. I mean the LEO saw the kid, with pacifier in mouth...and get spit out again ("a game mommy" look on kids face) she probably had that brat trained - to distract a LEO - to hide all that dope in the trunk I guess.

This forum is for training and tactics. Judgements and Perceptions for anyone, anywhere, in any profession. Just food for thought is all.

Note in my original post I called the po-po.

This also covers ME in the event some utility guy calls his supervisor - or the po-po about some lanky guy with a cup of coffee asking questions.

The exchange with the po-po so far has not indicated any such lanky homeowners with coffee.

[PythonGuy]

I'm not trying to BBQ you either sm, I just think it would have been best to call the local Police and let them check it out, as long as Barney Fife isn't your local P.O.

[sm]

PythonGuy-
Well hell - I was looking so forward to donning my BBQ gun.

Which begs the question - "what pipe goes best with a BBQ gun?"

I will always be learning - I know that.

I also know members read, learn and share. We also have non-members whom lurk. Some btw who don't really like us Gun Folks.

1) We all learn something
2) Maybe I pissed off an anti. I did NOT "portray": some knuckle-dragging redneck Southern boy out shooting anything that moved in the back yard.
3)Spiffy will give us proper fashion etiquette as to what a BBQ Pipe is.

Someone get Lawdog another cup of coffee...his seems to have found his monitor.

[zzirg]

just a little note to let you know most police officers do not like to be refered to as the po-po.

[jonathon]

sm, good job

You played the roll of the good citizen in checking out the situation, and assessing it. You also proved you had good judgement, by first making sure of the situation before calling the cops, and secondly how you handled the confrontation.

Most of the time.. I don't keep my piece on my person in the house, but its with me in one way or another. On the desk by the mouse, on coffee table with the remote, etc.

[sm]

zzirg-

No disrepect intended. I feel I am among friends here.

My apologies if I offended any LEO .

Steve

[spacemanspiff]

i dont care what rumors you have heard, i know nothing (i zee nothing!) about pipe smoking in any way, shape or form.

[sm]

Spiffy-
All I heard was something about Pink high heels, and it appeared somebody was trying to light the tobacco in the foot part and had the heel in mouth "drawing" like crazy.

[PythonGuy]

I am very conservative about this I admit, but there is a line between protecting oneself and straying into Police territory. As an aside, I was watching a show on video surveillance on the discovery channel, and in one case a guy set up a video camera on his porch because a neighbor was sneaking over and taking things. One night the owner sat on his porch and caught the neighbor sneaking around in the wee hours of the am. An arguement ensued and the house owner, packing his gun, said some things to get the thieving neighbor irate. The neighbor, a well build dude with his shirt off showing muscles but no gun refused to leave and came onto the porch hands empty but ready to pummel the home owner, on his own property. The home owner gave a warning but the thief kept coming, the home owner fired 4 times, and the neighbor was hit and mortally wounded. Seems like the homeowner, on his property and defending himself from a bigger, stronger threat acted properly? Wrong based on his own video tape the home owner was convicted of murder. He had a gun so he talked back to the intruder thinking he was protected, but he should have called the police and just given them the video tape of the trespass and the neighbow would have been convicted, instead one dead and one in jail for a loooooooooong time.

[wayneinFL]

Most of the people I've seen from the utility companies are maybe wearing a tshirt with a company logo on it. Hardly ever have id. Should I call 911 every time a utility contractor who doesn't look like a contractor wanders into my back yard?

I think until I got to this point I wouldn't have called police yet:

This guy was talking on a cell phone, pulling on the locked door that gives access to under this house!

And at that point it's too late to do anything except maybe get a tag number and description. Unless you want to tackle the guy-which I wouldn't do.

If you called prior to the guy coming into the yard and trying a door, I doubt police would have done anything with these guys anyway unless they found stolen property in the car.

[PythonGuy]

No wayneinFL,

but you should call 911 when some stranger goes "pulling on the locked door that gives access to under this house!" as the poster said. Who said to call 911 everytime a utilityman is in the area? I'll tell you who said it, YOU. If someone is tresspassing and acting suspicious, call 911 and keep armed if you want to protect yourself. If you are not a LEO then don't act like one, if you are forced into something because, before the police arrive the stranger breaks in AND is posing a threat to your or someone's life, that's a different scenario. Don't be a Barney Fife!

[wayneinFL]

Maybe I said this the wrong way:

Should I call 911 every time a utility contractor who doesn't look like a contractor wanders into my back yard?

I wasn't trying to be a smart-aleck. You stated earlier he should have called 911 as soon as he had the gut feeling something was wrong. He said he had a gut feeling when he saw a strange car in the neighborhood, which seems too early to me. I just wanted you to clarify the earlier statements. Perhaps I should have asked "At what point should he have called police?"

but you should call 911 when some stranger goes "pulling on the locked door that gives access to under this house!"

Okay. That's what I said I would have done and that's what he did.

He asked who the guy was and the guy ran away. Then he went inside and called the police.

I suppose he could have gone outside, seen the guy, then ran inside to call police. Meanwhile the guy runs away.

Same result.

I wouldn't equate Barney Fife with someone who politely asks a stranger why he is on his property. I don't see how sm did anything wrong except call the police the "po-po".

[Duxman]

SM - good moves. Tuesday morning QB's may disagree with me, but in the end - lets look at the results: You are still alive. Your house did not get robbed. No shots fired. BG ran away.

My house has a different set up than yours, fenced in back yard, and if faced with a similar situation - if someone enters my back yard, who is a stranger he will get an immediate verbal warning.

Anyway, again, good moves and you are now a contributor to the % of crimes averted by folks who CC. Congrats.

[Arc Angel]

With all due respect, this approach to a potential neighborhood problem sounds like a good way to end up getting shot by a quicker, more ready, gun! Why not just take the driver's description and vehicle license plate, and phone all the info into the state police?

(Unless, of course, you really really enjoy nighttime gunfighting - which is, as any real gunfighter will tell you - much more fun than plain old daytime gunfighting!)

[shortydog]

i consider my property private.i have this posted around the property line.
if somebody comes on my property uninvited, they will be asked to leave.
if they do not leave, they will be "escorted" off the property.
i will not hide in the bathroom and wait for the police to show up.
and if that is crime so be it.next time there would be nobody found to press charges.
i am not a sheep.i will and can protect myself.
there was a time when this was not a problem.but if people do not stand up for there basic right of self defence these are the insane things we can expect.
like pythons story, the hero should of just buried the POS and let it be that.
it is a shame you have to act like a crimanal just to protect youself from these POS's.

rant off.

[Bullrock]

Just curious...Would you have approached that vehicle if you were not armed??? IMHO the very fact that you were armed put you in a position where you might have had to use your weapon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there was no eminent threat that you could see. So if the guy pulled on you, and you beat him, how are you going to justify the shooting. By appraoching him instead of calling the police it might seem as though you were looking for trouble... No?

[Edward429451]

This one takes me back. BTDT. I was in a crawlspace under a house and hear Hello, Police department, come on out here for a minute...

I'm a plumber, heater, air conditioning guy and have been in so many houses and the keys under the rock and go on in the crawlspace its open, and all that that its bound to happen to have the cops called once in awhile.

All professionals have their ducks in a row to show reason to be there. I have licenses, ID, and the name & address in the truck of where I'm supposed to be working. Am I offended to have someone check me out? The loss of time is frustrating but, nah, I know how it is, (and that you're all armed to the teeth when walking up on me! )

I've even been given the wrong address and 'go in the back window, its open' Luckily it was locked! Went back the next day and the homeowner says 'I'm not finishing my basement and never heard of XXXX' (I didn't tell him I was trying windows in the back yesterday!!) I did have his address on a job ticket in the truck though, which may have helped if I had been 'caught'. My contrator who subbed the work to me transposed two numbers of the address.

I can see where you did ok in your situation, but also see pythonguys point also. He was a scumbag and could have nailed you quick. Is he reaching for his ID or his Davis 380? How could you be sure before its too late? This is a prime example of a function better suited to the police. If he's a scumbag up to no good, you're safe. If he's on the level professional, it wouldn't take five minutes to sort it all out and go back to work.

[Bob F.]

sm: I think you "dun gud". Never showed steel, didn't try to stop him, asked politely when he tried to open YOUR door. Don't think the license was in range to see until the last few seconds and you had sense enough not to expose yourself. Good job. Good gut!

Stay safe.
Bob

[sm]

Well, we are getting feedback -huh?

Recall : This was approx 10am. I have had workpersons on property giving estimates, doing work. I have had Legit Utililty folks out and have indeed spoken of getting the trees trimmed that run b/t property lines. Comcast has been out to check on lines and folks stealing cable - Comcast is the one whom some months ago made a report about some cable supports that needed replacing after a storm- this work was done.

Using a Square, let us label starting with the upper left corner A and clockwise B, C and D to label the other corners. Viewing house from street the front door is b/t D and C.

The access under the house is b/t A and B , about 2 feet from the Corner of B.

I was standing ~ 30* off corner B into the yard about 20 steps ( 1 step = about a yard for my stride)

Fence runs parallel to line AB , and parallel to BC up to near corner C

I could have run into neighbors yard to the left as there is no fence. There is a storage bldg and such to use as cover. I also had the option to run back around Corner A to D then into front door.

The vehicle came up to approx 45* from corner B. I stepped it off today, 42 steps[ 42 yards] from corner B at that angle. This the closest I ever came to vehicle.

Since this turned out to be suspicious, I observed and reported.

Most of the workman have the office call and inform me the workman will be here at such a time, and give me their name. Some times the workman calls themselves.

Utilities "sometimes" give on the news that a crew will be out in certain areas, most often traffic reports, then again they sometimes tell folks neighborhoods. If I took a daily paper I'm told often these are somtimes noted as well. I have seen these in the Sunday paper.

I am in a Big city [ pop 190K or so last census].

When I lived in smaller towns of 4K or 17k , Local papers and notes tacked up at the market , Post Office, Drug Store let folks know. Communicated with folks.

One Sheriff used to use the inmates to clear trash, creeks, and do landscaping with non- violent offenders. So I shared a pond with 4 folks, wake up one morning 3 horses, with Deputies , with shotguns, making sure no white jump suits got lost in my backyard. Dogs went nuts.

Here in the big city they sometimes do not even warn of water work, just get up and no water.

Next time some personin back yard, I will access that situation and deal with it as I see fit. There is not always a one size fits all.

Part of my sharing was to get folks to think about this , their property and some of the methods use to gain info and access by BGs.

Feedback - good or bad is good. We all learn.

Steve