varmint grenades

[murphyboy88]

i bought some 50 gr .22 caliber varmint grenades and i loaded up some .223 with them but the snow has kept me from getting up to the range, i was wonderin if anybody could tell me if they shoot well? ive got a remington 700 i was gonna test them in, i was also going to try them in my ruger 77 vt 22-250, any input is appreciated.

[birdshot]

let us know how those bullets work out for you. i have a m700 in 223 i picked up while back but have yet to shoot the gun. i am always interested in first hand accounts.

[FrankenMauser]

i was wonderin if anybody could tell me if they shoot well?

It all depends on how you load them, and the rifle you shoot them in.

My family has seen fairly decent accuracy from them, but it is almost always accompanied by a POI shift. (Away from the "normal" POI for the majority of loads.) For example: 100 yards - we saw 8" low for a .22 Hornet (36gr), and 4" low for my .220 Swift (they may have been over max velocity in the Swift).

The Varmint Grenades are a copper cup with a sintered(?) tin core. They have different ballistic properties than most bullets, and don't always act as predicted. Only your rifle and your loads can tell the real story.

[furtaker]

I loaded some for my savage 22-250 and didnt like them very well. Accuracy was marginal, the grenade part of the name needs removed, the V-max is way more explosive and accurate.

[TimT]

I've never shot a varmint with them, so I can't speak to that, but I have gotten about the same accuracy as I have with V-max's.

The POI was a bit different than most loads, maybe 4-5".

[McClintock]

Used the 36 grainers in a Savage .223 with Varget. As others have stated, POI shifted quite a bit, they shot 4" high at 100 yds (rifle was zeroed with 50 gr. American Eagle). Best group I could get was just a hair over 1" at 100 yards, but with more tinkering with different powders and charge weights, could probably get some tighter groups out of it. I've switched to the Hornady 40 gr. V-Max's, though, mostly because they are cheaper (and I'm... frugal, yeah, that's it! ).

In my experience, they are just as explosive as the Hornady V-Max's, but your mileage may vary.

Hope that helps.

Cheers!
McClintock

[HAMMER1DOWN]

outta my AR I was gettin under 1/2 inch groups at 100 yards, But I did spend countless hours tinkering with the load, but the grenade part does its job I had vaporized my fair share of gophers with them. But they are expensive so I switched to the nosler BT and not a complaint yet

[sk330lc]

What twist is your Rifle?
I have played with the 36gr In a RRA 16" 1-9" twist 223 and Had great Luck..
I was using BL-C(2) and Reloader 7. Best 5shot Group was 7/16" At 100yards With Reloader 7. My best velocity was with BL-C(2). And . 1/2" groups at 100yards. Does a job on Groundhogs. Have only had 1 exit out of 6 shot. The exit was a neck shot. all others were body hits.

[waterboy68]

Just ordered some 50 gr grenades myself. Hopefully I can get some loaded up this weekend and try them out sometime in the next few weeks.
I'll be using them in a Ruger M77 MKII with a heavy barrel. Hopefully Mr. Coyote will cooperate! If not I may have to try them on some crows.

[A_Gamehog]

You need a 1:9 twist or faster to properly shoot these bullets with stability.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/images/223RemingtonWeb.pdf

Don't know what you are shooting and the twist is but it does matter. I know
because I thought I could shoot a 1:12 twist, I was wrong. Some people miss this fact and blame Barnes.

Load to try:
AR-15, with 1:9 twist or faster.
24 Grains of H-322
50 Grains Varmit Grenade
CCI 400
Lake City 07 & 08 brass
Seated 2.260 , or single fired longer is better.

[FrankenMauser]

You need a 1:9 twist or faster to properly shoot these bullets with stability.

It depends on the velocity you are reaching.
If you are only referring to the .223 Remington, your post is correct. If you are referring to the bullet, in general, it is not.

Most .224" projectiles are considered "stable" at a minimum of 175,000 to 200,000 rpm, depending upon design.

A 2,800 fps projectile in a 1:9" twist barrel should be turning 224,000 rpm. (We'll call that stable.)

A 2,800 fps projectile in a 1:14" twist barrel should be turning 144,000 rpm. (We'll call that unstable.)

3,800 fps / 1:14" = 195,000 rpm. (Stable, even with a 'bad' barrel...)

However, there is also the problem of over-stabilizing.

3,800 fps / 1:9" = 304,000 rpm. (Over-stabilized. Lightly constructed bullets cannot take the rotational force.)

So... in a .223 Remington - it might be a good idea to stick with the 1:9" twist rate.

But - In a .22-250 or .220 Swift, you need a slower rate of twist. There is a reason these rifles are still built around barrels with 1:12" and 1:14" rates of twist. Instead of a faster twist rate, they use velocity to stabilize the projectile (without over-stabilizing too far). Or... you could say they compensate for the extra velocity, by reducing the rate of twist. Either way, the result is the same.

[A_Gamehog]

So what you said makes sense to me. If we only consider weight.

Then the bullets LENGTH has no bearing on this issue? Is that right?

The 50 grain Barnes Varmit grenade has a close overall lenght of a Sierra 69 Grain Matchking. Something not cleared up enough when talking about these bullets.

The Longest bullet my 22-250 weatherby with a factory 1:14 twist shoots is the 55 V-Max, 50's and lighter are even better yet. No 60 grain bullet works, or 62 & 63

Your saying the longer 69 Grain Sierra will also shoot if I load it fast enough?

Read this quote from Rocky, Nick also has a twist calc. on his site.

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...let_Length_or_

[FrankenMauser]

So what you said makes sense to me. If we only consider weight.

Then the bullets LENGTH has no bearing on this issue? Is that right?

Good point. I was speaking in general terms... I broke my own rule, about not being specific.

You are correct. Length does have an effect (moreso than actual weight). However, a heavy bullet of the same dimensions should always be more stable (and more easily stabilized) than the lighter bullet.

Your saying the longer 69 Grain Sierra will also shoot if I load it fast enough?

Yes. If the rifle and cartridge are capable of reaching a high enough velocity to compensate for the lower rate of twist, you should hit a zone where the bullets stabilize.

This is one of those subjects where, in reality, it comes back to the rifle, though. My .220 Swift can handle everything from 34gr Dogtown HPs to 68gr SPs and FMJs, with a 1:14" rate of twist. Yet, I am constantly reading complaints from other Swift owners, where nothing over 55 grains or under 45 grains will stabilize. (There is always the question of how hard they are actually pushing the bullets, but sometimes you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.) In addition, my Dad's Colt SP-1 (AR-15) has a 1:14" rate of twist, but does great with anything from 34gr to 75gr; while his 1:9" HBAR pukes all over itself with anything, but 68gr fodder.

My .270 Win has a 1:10" twist rate, and hates anything over 140gr (longer 140s are marginal). My brothers have .270 Winchester rifles with 1:10" twist rates, as well. Both of their rifles will launch 160gr projectiles all day, with no problems.

One of my brothers owns a Marlin .22 LR bolt gun with a 1:16" RoT. It will launch 69 grain Aguila Sniper Sub Sonic bullets all day, into the same hole. If we load them into my other brother's Marlin .22 LR bolt (1:16" RoT), a 25 yard group looks like a shotgun pattern.

It could be blamed on resonance. It could be blamed on pressure wave timing. It could be blamed on almost anything. Yet, similar (even identical) weapons can produce dramatically different results with the same ammo.

Length is absolutely a major player, but it's not the only one. Sometimes, we're left guessing about the rest.

[A_Gamehog]

I agree with that. Well said.

Thanks for the info.