Recommended .223 loads for a 1:9 twist barrel?

DaveInPA · October 23, 2008, 01:54 PM

I'm looking for some recommendations for some accurate .223 loads for an AR-15 with a 1:9 twist, 16" barrel.

My reloading manual and the data on the Hodgdon site both come from test guns with a 1:12 twist barrel.

I'm just looking for something that will reliably cycle the AR-15 action without abusing it, and be fairly accurate out to 150-200 yards.

Thanks
Dave

DIXIEDOG · October 23, 2008, 03:30 PM

You probably want to start out with a bullet in the 55 gr - 69 gr weight, a good starting powder for .223 is 748 it will load all .223 bullets regardless of weight. Even though your twist rate is different you still use the same loading data, you just need to start low and work your load up for accuracy.

CrustyFN · October 23, 2008, 03:49 PM

I load for a RRA AR 15 16". I prefer 62 grain bullets but the 55 grain shoot fine also. I like W748 and H335 powders. I don't have a rest so I haven't been able to shoot for real accuracy but resting my elbow on a table I have been shooting exploding targets with the target the size of a quarter at 100 yards. This is from my Speer 13 manual.
55 grain, .224, HP or BTHP
W748 = 26 grains start and 28 max. 28 is compressed.
H335 = 24 grains start and 26 max.

62 grain, .224, FMJ-BT
W748 = 23.5 grains start and 25.5 max.
H335 = 23 grains start and 25 max.

Oberg · October 23, 2008, 04:01 PM

I have an ar with a 16" barrel with a 1:9 twist and it loves 40 grain and 60 grain v-maxs but i can't seem to get the 69 gr matchkings to group and the 55 gr sp and fmj shoot 1.5 2.5" groups at 100 I am trying 65 gr sp this weekend so I will try to update you on how that worked if I remember. I use ramshot tac and x-terminator in it but have also used varget and benchmark in it. just ramshot powders are cheap and meter so damn well

Wibb · October 23, 2008, 08:14 PM

Try Varget and 69 gr or 77 gr Sierra MK's. I switched to Varget when I had consistency problems with 748 at warmer temps around here in the summer.

amamnn · October 23, 2008, 10:31 PM

After shooting 5 rifles chambered in .223 with 1/9 twists, I have come to the conclusion that 1/9 is probably the one I would want if I were limited to only one gun in .223. I've shot good groups with everything from 40 grain honady to 73 grain bergers. My DPMS version of the AR seems to like any bullet in the 60ish range. Powders don't seem to make a lot of difference to it, other than the optimum charge weight will vary. Powders I have had good results with 60 grainers are: W748, N540, H335, IMR 4064, H322. My best group so far was shot with N540. FC match primers and Lapua brass.

Keep in mind that twist rate and bullet selection for it is, in a way, really just a matter of probability. While selecting a bullet too heavy (long) for your twist rate will probably result in inaccuracy due to nonstabalization, it's not guaranteed. I once got hold of some 6mm bullets that meant to be shot in a 1/7 or 1/8 but they grouped ok in my 1/10 barrel. Nothing to write home about, but if it were a hunting rifle the groups would have been perfectly acceptable once the scope zero was corrected. If you select a bullet that is light (short) for your twist, that does not necessarily mean that it will not work. when you do that you are merely giving any imperfections in the balance of the bullet more opportunity (in revolutions during the course of its flight) to affect the way the bullet flies. I used to occasionally get free bullets and I like to experiment. I was given some 52 grain Berger and Sierra bullets, which I shotout of a 1/9 savage model 12 varmint rifle. One 5 shot group of Bergers turned out to be the best group I ever shot with that barrel. Obviously, all 5 bullets were about as perfect as possible, or I loaded and oriented 5 bullets with identical imperfections exactly the same way. Bullets grossly oversized for the twist rate have been proven to fail to stabalize and bullets much too short for a very fast twist can fly apart in the air if pushed too fast.

mbreitba · October 24, 2008, 04:41 PM

I shoot a DPMS 20" Bull barrel, 1:9 twist. I've had pretty good luck with H335 and 55gr FMJBT bullets. I can run 24gr of H335 (or even a little less) and get my AR to reliably cycle. It does burn dirty though with that charge, I'm thinking that upping the charge would probably clean it up just a little bit. Shoots about 1.25MOA at 100 yards in that configuration. My best group though was 20.0Gr Reloader 7 and a 55gr SPSX Hornady bullet. I ended up with a .380 (outside to outside) 3 shot group at 100 yards.

Hylander · October 25, 2008, 12:38 PM

These are my hunting loads, Sub MOA in every .223 I have tried them in.

Lexter · October 25, 2008, 03:01 PM

AA 2230 (24 grs) with Hornady 55gr FMJ

100 Yd Target----DPMS 24" Bull, 1:9 twist

Zombie Steve · October 25, 2008, 03:27 PM

For a general purpose round, I'm putting a Hornady 55gr. fmjbt with cannelure over Varget. These bullets are very consistent and you can find them in bulk pretty easily.

I wanted to have a cannelure to crimp into to prevent setback, and I had to have a boattail bullet... less for drag, more for my sanity in balancing the tiny bullet on the case before seating. I'm still on a single stage press...

They have a fairly thin jacket, and my accuracy load was around 3,050 - 3,100 fps... should fragment well inside your stated ranges should you decide to zap a varmint or two...

Here's where I got them, and some more reviews in there...

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...907&t=11082005

HAMMER1DOWN · October 26, 2008, 03:38 PM

I shoot a stag arms AR-15 and the best load i have had with it at 200 yards was
55 grain v-max
23.5 grains of IMR-4895
and remington primers

I got a little .75 inch groups, thats with a good scope and steady rest

sonofafish · October 29, 2008, 11:46 AM

I like 69 seirras VV n135 22.5. I have shot them for years out of my AR's DCM and legs out to 600yards. 200 and 300 yard it groups under m.o.a. at 600 you really need to know how to read wind and mirage with the 69s. If you had a 1-8 or a 1-7 the 75 and 80 gr. group a lot better @ 600. 62 ball or green tip shoots great too. Hope that helps.

scsov509 · October 29, 2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

200 and 300 yard it groups under m.o.a.

An AR that shoots MOA at 300 yards has got to be grouping .3 MOA at 100 yards, in which case you're saying you're getting better than .3 MOA out of your AR at 100?

I've seen guys with high end AR's get .5 MOA at 100, but I don't think I've ever even heard someone getting that sort of accuracy out to 300 yards. What are you using for optics to get that sort of accuracy?

Zombie Steve · October 29, 2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

An AR that shoots MOA at 300 yards has got to be grouping .3 MOA at 100 yards, in which case you're saying you're getting better than .3 MOA out of your AR at 100? I've seen guys with high end AR's get .5 MOA at 100, but I don't think I've ever even heard someone getting that sort of accuracy out to 300 yards. What are you using for optics to get that sort of accuracy?

Huh?

1.05" group at 100 yards = 1 MOA (yes, I'm rounding up from 1.0471996")
3.15" group at 300 yards = 1 MOA
6.3" group at 600 yards = 1 MOA

amamnn · October 29, 2008, 05:24 PM

335 will definitely clean up at higher pressure. BTW, a certain grouping at 300 yards does not necessarily translate to 1/3 that grouping at 100 yards. Boattailed bullets don't necessarily stabilize before 200 yards or so. I've shot some lovely 300 or 600 yard groups with 70-80 grain BTs that shot lousy groups at 200 or less.

sonofafish · October 29, 2008, 08:24 PM

Man if I had a mouse gun that did not shoot a MOA at 100yards I would have to get rid of it. If you have never seen an AR or mouse shoot that you need to go to Camp Parry.I have shot with some of the best,I have to say the Marines and Army Teams.Across the course 600,300 And 200yard with iron sights. Its hard to believe but it true. Go to Parry in sign up for target pulling you well see what I mean and if you do a good job you well get some good tips I mean money and shooting.Have to say I can hang at 200 and 300 with the high Masters but I fall off bad at 600. I always got last relay at 600.

scsov509 · October 30, 2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

1.05" group at 100 yards = 1 MOA (yes, I'm rounding up from 1.0471996")
3.15" group at 300 yards = 1 MOA
6.3" group at 600 yards = 1 MOA

I know that MOA is a measurement of 1/60th of 1 degree at a given distance, hence the reason that an optic's field of view is measured in degrees. However, I read the statement to imply less than 1" groups at 200-300 yards, which may indeed have not been the poster's intent. Even if we're talking true MOA accuracy, I'm still curious to know if he's saying that he shoots MOA through irons or if he's using optics?

**Unclenick** · October 30, 2008, 10:17 PM

I, too, have shot at Perry for some years. Yes, he is talking iron sights. There is surprisingly little difference between scoped and iron sight accuracy in position shooting at bullseye targets. The optics mainly have the advantages of being immune to changing light conditions, while iron sights will change sight picture as the pupil of your eye changes diameter. Optics also need less correction for older eyes. The ability to achieve and hold a stable position and to operate a 4.5 lb trigger correctly are what determine success in service rifle matches.

For bullets in the 40 and 50 grain range, don't forget to consider IMR 4198. Stoner developed the gun for that powder.

pps_dad · October 31, 2008, 05:47 PM

I shoot a 1:9 20" heavy barrel. I shoot a 40gr. sierra blitzking with H322.target 005.jpg This is at 100yds. with 23.5gr of H322. I also have got good results using 52gr sierra matchking with reloader 15. If you use sierra bullets you can call them and they will give you load data and results for an ar-15.

October 23, 2008, 01:54 PM	#1
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	Recommended .223 loads for a 1:9 twist barrel? I'm looking for some recommendations for some accurate .223 loads for an AR-15 with a 1:9 twist, 16" barrel. My reloading manual and the data on the Hodgdon site both come from test guns with a 1:12 twist barrel. I'm just looking for something that will reliably cycle the AR-15 action without abusing it, and be fairly accurate out to 150-200 yards. Thanks Dave

October 23, 2008, 03:49 PM	#3
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I load for a RRA AR 15 16". I prefer 62 grain bullets but the 55 grain shoot fine also. I like W748 and H335 powders. I don't have a rest so I haven't been able to shoot for real accuracy but resting my elbow on a table I have been shooting exploding targets with the target the size of a quarter at 100 yards. This is from my Speer 13 manual. 55 grain, .224, HP or BTHP W748 = 26 grains start and 28 max. 28 is compressed. H335 = 24 grains start and 26 max. 62 grain, .224, FMJ-BT W748 = 23.5 grains start and 25.5 max. H335 = 23 grains start and 25 max. __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

October 23, 2008, 10:31 PM	#6
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	After shooting 5 rifles chambered in .223 with 1/9 twists, I have come to the conclusion that 1/9 is probably the one I would want if I were limited to only one gun in .223. I've shot good groups with everything from 40 grain honady to 73 grain bergers. My DPMS version of the AR seems to like any bullet in the 60ish range. Powders don't seem to make a lot of difference to it, other than the optimum charge weight will vary. Powders I have had good results with 60 grainers are: W748, N540, H335, IMR 4064, H322. My best group so far was shot with N540. FC match primers and Lapua brass. Keep in mind that twist rate and bullet selection for it is, in a way, really just a matter of probability. While selecting a bullet too heavy (long) for your twist rate will probably result in inaccuracy due to nonstabalization, it's not guaranteed. I once got hold of some 6mm bullets that meant to be shot in a 1/7 or 1/8 but they grouped ok in my 1/10 barrel. Nothing to write home about, but if it were a hunting rifle the groups would have been perfectly acceptable once the scope zero was corrected. If you select a bullet that is light (short) for your twist, that does not necessarily mean that it will not work. when you do that you are merely giving any imperfections in the balance of the bullet more opportunity (in revolutions during the course of its flight) to affect the way the bullet flies. I used to occasionally get free bullets and I like to experiment. I was given some 52 grain Berger and Sierra bullets, which I shotout of a 1/9 savage model 12 varmint rifle. One 5 shot group of Bergers turned out to be the best group I ever shot with that barrel. Obviously, all 5 bullets were about as perfect as possible, or I loaded and oriented 5 bullets with identical imperfections exactly the same way. Bullets grossly oversized for the twist rate have been proven to fail to stabalize and bullets much too short for a very fast twist can fly apart in the air if pushed too fast. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

October 25, 2008, 12:38 PM	#8
Hylander Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2008 Location: California Posts: 128	These are my hunting loads, Sub MOA in every .223 I have tried them in. __________________ Today is my Best Day. Lincoln, Ca.

October 26, 2008, 03:38 PM	#11
HAMMER1DOWN Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2008 Location: Close Enough to Canada to say "EH!!"... MT Posts: 418	Accurate load for 16' barrel 1:9 AR-15 I shoot a stag arms AR-15 and the best load i have had with it at 200 yards was 55 grain v-max 23.5 grains of IMR-4895 and remington primers I got a little .75 inch groups, thats with a good scope and steady rest

October 23, 2008, 03:30 PM	#2
DIXIEDOG Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2007 Location: Maine Posts: 265	You probably want to start out with a bullet in the 55 gr - 69 gr weight, a good starting powder for .223 is 748 it will load all .223 bullets regardless of weight. Even though your twist rate is different you still use the same loading data, you just need to start low and work your load up for accuracy.

October 23, 2008, 04:01 PM	#4
Oberg Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2008 Location: Minn Posts: 212	I have an ar with a 16" barrel with a 1:9 twist and it loves 40 grain and 60 grain v-maxs but i can't seem to get the 69 gr matchkings to group and the 55 gr sp and fmj shoot 1.5 2.5" groups at 100 I am trying 65 gr sp this weekend so I will try to update you on how that worked if I remember. I use ramshot tac and x-terminator in it but have also used varget and benchmark in it. just ramshot powders are cheap and meter so damn well

October 23, 2008, 08:14 PM	#5
Wibb Member Join Date: August 13, 2006 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 44	Try Varget and 69 gr or 77 gr Sierra MK's. I switched to Varget when I had consistency problems with 748 at warmer temps around here in the summer.

October 24, 2008, 04:41 PM	#7
mbreitba Member Join Date: September 30, 2008 Location: Des Moines, IA Posts: 41	I shoot a DPMS 20" Bull barrel, 1:9 twist. I've had pretty good luck with H335 and 55gr FMJBT bullets. I can run 24gr of H335 (or even a little less) and get my AR to reliably cycle. It does burn dirty though with that charge, I'm thinking that upping the charge would probably clean it up just a little bit. Shoots about 1.25MOA at 100 yards in that configuration. My best group though was 20.0Gr Reloader 7 and a 55gr SPSX Hornady bullet. I ended up with a .380 (outside to outside) 3 shot group at 100 yards.

October 25, 2008, 03:01 PM	#9
Lexter Member Join Date: September 17, 2002 Location: NC Posts: 44	AA 2230 (24 grs) with Hornady 55gr FMJ 100 Yd Target----DPMS 24" Bull, 1:9 twist

October 25, 2008, 03:27 PM	#10
Zombie Steve Senior Member Join Date: June 3, 2007 Location: Old Colorado City Posts: 527	For a general purpose round, I'm putting a Hornady 55gr. fmjbt with cannelure over Varget. These bullets are very consistent and you can find them in bulk pretty easily. I wanted to have a cannelure to crimp into to prevent setback, and I had to have a boattail bullet... less for drag, more for my sanity in balancing the tiny bullet on the case before seating. I'm still on a single stage press... They have a fairly thin jacket, and my accuracy load was around 3,050 - 3,100 fps... should fragment well inside your stated ranges should you decide to zap a varmint or two... Here's where I got them, and some more reviews in there... http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...907&t=11082005

October 29, 2008, 11:46 AM	#12
sonofafish Junior Member Join Date: August 4, 2008 Posts: 8	I like 69 seirras VV n135 22.5. I have shot them for years out of my AR's DCM and legs out to 600yards. 200 and 300 yard it groups under m.o.a. at 600 you really need to know how to read wind and mirage with the 69s. If you had a 1-8 or a 1-7 the 75 and 80 gr. group a lot better @ 600. 62 ball or green tip shoots great too. Hope that helps.

October 29, 2008, 05:24 PM	#15
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	335 will definitely clean up at higher pressure. BTW, a certain grouping at 300 yards does not necessarily translate to 1/3 that grouping at 100 yards. Boattailed bullets don't necessarily stabilize before 200 yards or so. I've shot some lovely 300 or 600 yard groups with 70-80 grain BTs that shot lousy groups at 200 or less. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

October 29, 2008, 08:24 PM	#16
sonofafish Junior Member Join Date: August 4, 2008 Posts: 8	Man if I had a mouse gun that did not shoot a MOA at 100yards I would have to get rid of it. If you have never seen an AR or mouse shoot that you need to go to Camp Parry.I have shot with some of the best,I have to say the Marines and Army Teams.Across the course 600,300 And 200yard with iron sights. Its hard to believe but it true. Go to Parry in sign up for target pulling you well see what I mean and if you do a good job you well get some good tips I mean money and shooting.Have to say I can hang at 200 and 300 with the high Masters but I fall off bad at 600. I always got last relay at 600.

October 30, 2008, 10:17 PM	#18
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I, too, have shot at Perry for some years. Yes, he is talking iron sights. There is surprisingly little difference between scoped and iron sight accuracy in position shooting at bullseye targets. The optics mainly have the advantages of being immune to changing light conditions, while iron sights will change sight picture as the pupil of your eye changes diameter. Optics also need less correction for older eyes. The ability to achieve and hold a stable position and to operate a 4.5 lb trigger correctly are what determine success in service rifle matches. For bullets in the 40 and 50 grain range, don't forget to consider IMR 4198. Stoner developed the gun for that powder. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 31, 2008, 05:47 PM	#19
pps_dad Junior Member Join Date: October 8, 2008 Location: Northwest Ohio Posts: 13	I shoot a 1:9 20" heavy barrel. I shoot a 40gr. sierra blitzking with H322.target 005.jpg This is at 100yds. with 23.5gr of H322. I also have got good results using 52gr sierra matchking with reloader 15. If you use sierra bullets you can call them and they will give you load data and results for an ar-15.