January 7, 2018, 02:42 PM | #1 |
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Trigger pull
I understand that trigger pull is a part of accuracy.
What is a good trigger pull? Noticed the Ruger SR9 is 6.5 lbs striker fired. It's listed as double action only. Interesting how odd triggers can be called by different names. |
January 7, 2018, 02:51 PM | #2 |
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A good trigger has a crisp and clean break every time
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January 7, 2018, 03:20 PM | #3 | ||
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That is a tall order .......... You'll be hard pressed to find that outside the 1911 family ..... |
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January 7, 2018, 03:32 PM | #4 |
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Being just a one year old gun guy, I have not pulled to many triggers. I do like the Ruger 22/45 MarkII trigger. Best I've found so far.
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January 7, 2018, 03:37 PM | #5 |
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What does crisp and clean mean?????
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January 7, 2018, 03:38 PM | #6 | |
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January 7, 2018, 03:43 PM | #7 |
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January 7, 2018, 03:47 PM | #8 | |
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January 7, 2018, 03:53 PM | #9 | |||
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The most often used term for the desired best release is "like a glass rod, breaking", which means there is no change to the feel, of the pull until the weapon fires. The actual weight of the trigger pull is the least important part. A gun with an 8lb pull but a clean and crisp "glass rod break" can be fired more accurately than one with a 4lb pull where the trigger feels like its being dragged through the dirt. Quote:
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(and this IS the General Handgun forum, so all types apply)
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January 7, 2018, 03:58 PM | #10 |
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Oftentimes I wonder if the popularity of the cheap plastic wundernines is not based on the fact that the largest part of the buyers of these things don't know any different ..... this thread is confirming that theory....
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January 7, 2018, 04:04 PM | #11 |
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Basically trigger pulls generally involve a mechanism that must slide a sear off some hammer/striker surface to fire.
Therefore, there are 4 parts of the pull: takeup, pull, overtravel and reset. In theory, you want 0 takeup, 0 pull length, 0 overtravel and 0 reset at a light weight of pull. On the practical side of things, usually 0 isn't best. In a combat handgun, I like some ~1mm or 1-2 lb takeup, a 4-6 lb pull with no creep feeling and just a smidge of overtravel with a short tactile reset. Or.....the shooter can adapt to he gun. This is generally the better way....most shooters can adapt to mat popular guns with some training. The benefit is you get full safety and economy of a stock trigger. |
January 7, 2018, 04:15 PM | #12 | ||
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January 7, 2018, 05:25 PM | #13 |
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You guys talk of the "1911 family". Which one?
A lot of companies make a 1911. Are they all the same trigger? Edit : Went to look on a buying site and 23 companies make the 1911. |
January 7, 2018, 05:34 PM | #14 | |
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Different companies execute the design with varying degrees of success ..... but I have a Charles Daly 1911 (made in the Phillipines by what I believe is now called ARMSCOR) that I paid less than $400 ..... no it's not as good as my Springfield EMP, but by my criteria poste above, it still beats any plastic gun's trigger .... |
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January 7, 2018, 05:39 PM | #15 | |
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There are tons of other guns 4 lbs trigger pulls or less. Just looked in my safe and I have 2 Colts woodsman's, a Hi Standard Sportking, Star model B, a CZ 75B that all have under a 4 lbs trigger pull. This is over half the semi-autos that I own that aren't 1911's. Most of my 1911's don't have a 4 lbs trigger pull. Colt Delta Elite-5 lbs, Colt GCNM-4.5 lbs with a 17 lbs mainspring, Kimber TLE-4.5 lbs. I have a couple of 1911's with under 4 lbs triggers but they have all had work done to get them that low. 1911's are nice but there are plenty of other guns out there that have triggers as good or better. If an 10 lbs double action trigger pull on a revolver is too much, than you need to spend some time dry firing the gun. |
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January 7, 2018, 06:01 PM | #16 | |
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January 7, 2018, 06:11 PM | #17 |
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I was just looking at what's in my safe...
My point is that plenty of guns have as good of or better triggers than a 1911. Most striker fired guns don't have trigger pulls in the 4 lbs range but than again most factory 1911's don't either. |
January 7, 2018, 06:20 PM | #18 |
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Ok, What is too heavy a trigger for a single action?
The original post mentions the Ruger at 6.5 lbs. Hickok45 thinks it has great trigger. |
January 7, 2018, 06:30 PM | #19 |
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Anything over 6.5 for SA in my book would be heavy. Between 6 and 7 is probably the point where you go from the moderate range to the heavy range. At least for me. But as mentioned before it depends on "the feel" of the trigger. Another consideration is how well the gun fits in you hand. Too big a gun and you're having to stretch the finger out unnaturally. Too small and you're having to contort you finger/hand to get proper contact with the pad of your finger.
Another consideration is how much experience you have shooting in general. For someone who shoots regularly a 6.5 pound trigger is still easy to get good shots off. For a new shooter it might be too much. Every person is different. Every gun is different. |
January 7, 2018, 06:31 PM | #20 | |
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I think 6+ is way too heavy. But I'm spoiled. Last edited by jimbob86; January 7, 2018 at 06:39 PM. |
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January 7, 2018, 06:36 PM | #21 | |
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Generally, we will all agree that we want any movement to be smooth and the breaking point to be clean. There is less agreeement over items like acceptable travel, pull weight, etc. Part of the disagreements will come from use of the gun. The characteristics many like in a carry gun aren’t the same characteristics that one would like for a competition gun. I can’t disagree with Jimbob over his option of a 1911 trigger characteristics, they can be fantastic. I do disagree that quality triggers are hard to find. Interestingly, the only true 1911 (RIA 22TCM) I have left at this point has the worst pistol trigger in the safe and it’s kept because I enjoy the round more than the gun itself. The top two triggers are my Tanfoglio Hunter and the Coonan, both of which meet the criteria Jim laid out. |
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January 8, 2018, 12:58 AM | #22 |
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There is a design issue in play here.
1911 triggers float in the frame of the gun and move back & forth horizontall as they break & reset. Its my opinion that a great 1911 trigger is between 3.5 and 4.5 lbs...with no creep, no slack ( no grit ) and it breaks like glass and reset is short and precise.. ( Wilson Combat makes 1911's with a trigger that good ! .../ ...many 1911 mfg's do not...). Design on all 1911's is the same...the execution of how well that trigger works or is fit to its other components that fire the gun is not the same in all mfg's . Most other guns have a "hinged trigger" suspended from a pin & they move thru an arc as you pull them...( revolvers in double action, Sigs in DA and SA, stryker fired gjns, etc. ). Any gun with a hinged trigger will have some slack, some wobble especially on reset ...the worst of them have a lot of creep and do not break cleanly. Hinged triggers can be ok, after you get used to them...especially in Single Action if they're under 5 lbs and can be tuned to eliminate creep. Picking what you prefer is a big deal...once you find what you like best, it will probably significantly improve your shooting. Comparing 1911 triggers to hinged triggers ...is an apple to oranges comparison / they are not the same. Some revolvers have trigger pull weights that "stack" as you pull them ( the old Colts)...ans some don't stack ( S&W )....so a long time ago I figured out I liked the S&W triggers much better. In Single Action ...most revolvers break like glass, at light weight, no creep, no slack ...,( again very different from most semi-autos). I am an unapologetic 1911 fan...Wilson Combat makes some of the best guns I own ...with excellent triggers...and they are my primary carry, training & range guns / all of my Wilsons break at around 4 lbs...with no slack & no creep/ they are what I compare every other gun I own to. I enjoy shooting a Sig X-5 L1 model with an adjustable trigger in it that you set between 2 - 4 lbs in SAO but its no Wilson. I enjoy shooting my S&W revolvers K, L, N frames...they are not 1911's , they're different..../...you have to figure out what you like. |
January 8, 2018, 02:47 AM | #23 | |
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A good trigger is one that lets a shooter using proper technique fire the gun without pulling it off target in the process.
Things that really tend to cause problems are the following: 1. The combination of overtravel and a heavy trigger. Overtravel is the movement of the trigger (usually requiring very little effort) after the shot breaks. Even a pretty heavy trigger with no overtravel can be very shootable, but if you've been pulling hard on the trigger to overcome a stiff trigger pull and then the shot breaks and the trigger easily moves another little bit before coming to a stop against the frame of the gun, that will tend to yank the gun off target. 2. A gritty/creepy trigger. Ideally a trigger should either move very smoothly until the gun fires, or it should move very little at all while the pressure builds against the trigger until the trigger "breaks" and the shot fires. A trigger that creeps or is gritty feeling, or moves in little skips during the time that it should be either moving smoothly, or moving very little at all, will make it difficult to shoot the gun accurately. 3. An inconsistent trigger. If the trigger behaves one way when you pull the trigger and then the next time you fire a shot it feels very different, that will make shooting accurately difficult. I'm not talking about guns that feel one way when shooting without the hammer cocked and another way when the hammer is cocked, I'm talking about a gun that has a trigger that feels different from shot to shot even when being fired in the same mode every time. The rest of it is preference. People like very light triggers, crisp triggers, triggers with short travel, long travel, short reset, positive reset, abrupt break, triggers that move straight back instead of pivoting, triggers that pivot, etc. Sometimes they like those things because they can mask, or partially mask issues with technique. But those things shouldn't be confused with what makes a trigger good or bad. If the trigger doesn't prevent a shooter, who is using proper technique, from shooting the gun accurately then it's a good trigger regardless of personal preference. Quote:
The fact is that people with equal amounts of experience and knowledge may still prefer different types of guns and have different opinions about firearms.
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January 8, 2018, 04:45 AM | #24 |
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Thanks to all of those who answered my "clean and crisp" question.
I have 8 semis ( FN, Bersa, Ruger, Glock) and all except a Shield 40 are clean and crisp. The Shield is such that the gun is pulled off target by the trigger. Travel is way too long and the engagement is gritty as heck and the reset is horrible. Right before firing the trigger is like pulling a stubborn mule. In research on the Shield and getting older with arthritis has caused me to find several flaws in my grip and trigger pull and to understand or re-understand some of the mechanics of shooting a hand gun. My over all shooting has improved or is getting more like my younger days. However the Shield (it has made me think more about trigger pull and grip) needs a complete trigger job....or a replacement gun...lol!...wish FN made a subcompact that could be pocket carried. |
January 8, 2018, 04:52 AM | #25 | |
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