7mm-08 Load Help

ntg · September 28, 2013, 06:17 PM

Hi. I'm trying to get some loads figured out in time for a mule deer hunt in a few weeks. I've got some speer 145gr SBT that I'm hoping to get figured out. I'd like to know if anyone could look into their recent Speer books (#14 hopefully) and tell me what would be best. I have some H4350 but my Lee book says the load for this is ~100 fps under what I'd read elsewhere that Speer say this can do (of 2910fps if I recall correctly). Any help here would be great.

I do also have some 2000-mr and Varget to work with and I'm open to suggestions.

I do also have some Hornaday 139 BTSP that I haven't played with yet, but don't want to mess with too many variables this late in the game.

This is a 22" 9.5 twist (Marlin X7)

Thanks in advance.

tobnpr · September 28, 2013, 06:25 PM

I go by Hodgdon's load data- they're the powder manufacturer.
Lee seems to be taking their data.
Anyway...
Hodgdon lists the load for the SPR 145 grain projectile at 45.0 grains min. load (2,647 fps) and 48.0 grains-compressed-as the max at 2,801 fps with H4350.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Irrelevant what you may have read, start low, work up and see how it goes. Do you have a chrono, or are you just trying to guesstimate by the book?

FWIW, I have a thread running below about H4350 and the 7-08. I shoot heavier, high-bc bullets, but I'm going to try the IMR 4350; might get a bit more velocity.

ntg · September 28, 2013, 06:31 PM

Thanks...I've visited their website many times for my various reloading projects.
I was just hoping someone could tell me what Speer say their max load is... as I read that they say it'll go 2911 (IIRC). Hoping to save me a little work possibly.
I may start only about 5% under max of Hodgdons data if Speer says I can go another grain or two above Hodgdons data.

I do have a friends crono that I borrow when working loads.

57K · September 28, 2013, 06:32 PM

Just me maybe, but I'd never trust LEE's data over anyones. It's just a compilation of powdermakers data. SPEER actually does their own velocity and pressure testing. Sorry I can't help on H-4350 data from the #14 guide, but in the 11th, IMR 4350 gave them 2900 FPS and since H-4350 is just a hair slower burning, I'd be inclined to believe that H-4350 probably is capable of 2910 FPS from a 24" barrel.

In the October issue of Handloader magazine there's a good article on loading the 7mm-08 and 2000-MR performed pretty much as advertised. It performed very well. Varget could be used, but would probably be a btter choice for bullets under 140 grs.

ntg · September 28, 2013, 06:35 PM

Thanks 57K. I look at Lee's data, but like you don't bank on it. Between me any my buddy I have access to pretty much every reloading book except the Speer.

Thanks for the tip on Handloader mag...I'll have to see if I can find it.

I agree with you on Varget.

JumpMarine · September 28, 2013, 08:22 PM

I've been loading 40g of Varget, OAL 2.8, 140g Nosler Ballistic Tip. Been getting consistent 1/2" groups at 100y with my Weatherby Vangard. I haven't chronographed yet so no idea on the velocity. That article in handloader was great, but I had already loaded up with Varget.

BigD_in_FL · September 28, 2013, 08:38 PM

Why are you worried about max loads versus what is the most accurate? I have never found the max load to be the most accurate; in MY guns it is usually somewhere between the middle to a little higher, nowhere near max that produces those 1/2MOA groups.

The 7-08 in my guns works best with 140 running about 2800

ntg · September 28, 2013, 08:43 PM

BigD,

I understand your comment. I'd like velocity with accuracy...but yes accuracy is first. Where I'm hunting mulies a little help in velocity department can be nice as I'm usually shooting between 200-450 yards.

My other rifle are like yours...best accuracy isn't usually that close to max.

reynolds357 · September 28, 2013, 09:54 PM

If Speer got those velocities, they tested with a real long barrel.

ntg · September 28, 2013, 10:09 PM

Yes...good chance it was with a long tube.

57K · September 28, 2013, 10:27 PM

24" and unless SPEER has changed, it was from a production rifle.

reynolds357 · September 28, 2013, 10:39 PM

If they are publishing those velocities reached from a 24" tube, their Chrono and mine are on different planets. I have never shot 145 in the 08, having said that, I cant get that velocity from a 140.

jimbob86 · September 28, 2013, 11:31 PM

Quote:

If Speer got those velocities, they tested with a real long barrel.

Oh, I dunno ....I get 2400 out of my Frontier (16" barrel) and just 38 grains of IMR4064, under a 150gr bullet .... and 2650 with 140gr Remington Corelokts. 2900 is not that fast .....

I don't doubt that the 24" barrelled 700v they used in the #13 manual made what they said with the slower powders like 4350 and RL19 .....

ntg · September 29, 2013, 04:10 PM

Well, I was able to find the information. 48 grains is the max listed by Speer for h4350.

tobnpr · September 29, 2013, 08:06 PM

Load 'er up and see what you can get...

I get 2716 avg. with 162's- and that's the accuracy load (26" barrel). I could get 2800 with them, but accuracy suffered.

I don't doubt that 2900 could be had safely with 145's from the right barrel.

snuffy · September 30, 2013, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Why are you worried about max loads versus what is the most accurate? I have never found the max load to be the most accurate; in MY guns it is usually somewhere between the middle to a little higher, nowhere near max that produces those 1/2MOA groups.

The 7-08 in my guns works best with 140 running about 2800

The question you have to ask is; what do I want, ½ inch groups or dead deer? 200 fps more would result in flatter trajectory out to 450 yards. Unless you're talking terrible groups at higher velocity, I'd go for velocity over tiny groups.

I went with the speer hot-cor 145 BTSP in my .280., mid-range load shot ¾" groups, the max load shot 1-¼". I wanted the velocity, so I loaded to max,(a safe load). Difference was 150 fps. I killed 4 deer with that load, the longest was 250 yards. PBR,(Point Blank Range), was 225 yds. I hit right where the cross hairs were.

Accurate,(tiny bragging groups), at max powder level, are still possible with the right powders. A lot of trail and error is involved, lots of components and expense.

Another thing, those tiny groups at 100 yds. may not stay tiny our farther. And those 1.5 inch groups may actually get better farther out. Book theory is nice but groups on paper are the facts.Test at longer ranges. If you can't then the 100 yd. groups will have to do.

Clark · October 1, 2013, 07:27 AM

My jug of H4350 is so slow that I have to use 4% more powder to get the velocities that Quickload predicts. I run my loads close to the threshold of short brass life.

Together, I wind up hunting with my 7mmRM rifles with 9gr more H4350 than Hodgdon says is max.

ntg · October 1, 2013, 08:59 AM

Good points, snuffy.

Clark, your hitting what I'm worried about with H4350. But I put some loads together with it last night so we'll see. One thing for sure is it fills the case...probably too fast, but we'll see. Hoping to test the loads first thing tomorrow.

oneoldsap · October 1, 2013, 05:37 PM

I have used that bullet for many years in my Model 7 SS . W-760 is the powder I use , 47 Gr. (don't start here) . The best velocity I've obtained is right around 2700 FPS . It's a very accurate load in my rifle , and all deer shot with it have been one and done ! I've only recovered two bullets from game , and both still wore their jackets , and had lost about 50% of their weight !

BigD_in_FL · October 1, 2013, 08:14 PM

Quote:

The question you have to ask is; what do I want, ½ inch groups or dead deer? 200 fps more would result in flatter trajectory out to 450 yards. Unless you're talking terrible groups at higher velocity, I'd go for velocity over tiny groups.

If that's the case, then you should be looking at a 7mm mag, and not a 7-08...

snuffy · October 2, 2013, 12:19 AM

Quote:

If that's the case, then you should be looking at a 7mm mag, and not a 7-08...

Point is; he HAS a 7-08, he wants to use it. Why not use a cartridge to it's full potential? Meaning to it's maximum velocity. As long as it's "minute of deer hide, it'll work just fine.

ntg · October 2, 2013, 11:13 AM

My FIL has a saying that "magnums are for those trying to compensate for something else"...yea he's a wise crack. All kidding aside, I'm not buying another rifle (for now) and even if I was, it won't have a belt.

Also, there's nothing I can't kill in Idaho with a 7-08.

TATER · October 2, 2013, 05:14 PM

Using 140 SGK I am getting Low to Mid 29's out of Varget and W-742…

BigD_in_FL · October 2, 2013, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Point is; he HAS a 7-08, he wants to use it. Why not use a cartridge to it's full potential? Meaning to it's maximum velocity. As long as it's "minute of deer hide, it'll work just fine.

You're equating full potential to max velocity? REALLY? Wow......in that case just nevermind. Watched a lot of yahoos over the years wound and lose a lot of deer with "minute of deer accuracy" -no thanks

reynolds357 · October 2, 2013, 08:39 PM

Most rifles have a load that can be worked up that is a happy compromise between accuracy and velocity. Most of my rifles accurate loads are max or slightly north of max. If I had a rifle I had to back down a few hundred F.P.S. to make shoot, I would probably keep working on it until I did not have to back it down, or I would sell it.

September 28, 2013, 06:25 PM	#2
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	I go by Hodgdon's load data- they're the powder manufacturer. Lee seems to be taking their data. Anyway... Hodgdon lists the load for the SPR 145 grain projectile at 45.0 grains min. load (2,647 fps) and 48.0 grains-compressed-as the max at 2,801 fps with H4350. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp Irrelevant what you may have read, start low, work up and see how it goes. Do you have a chrono, or are you just trying to guesstimate by the book? FWIW, I have a thread running below about H4350 and the 7-08. I shoot heavier, high-bc bullets, but I'm going to try the IMR 4350; might get a bit more velocity. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

September 29, 2013, 08:06 PM	#15
tobnpr Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 4,556	Load 'er up and see what you can get... I get 2716 avg. with 162's- and that's the accuracy load (26" barrel). I could get 2800 with them, but accuracy suffered. I don't doubt that 2900 could be had safely with 145's from the right barrel. __________________ Remington 700/Savage Rebarreling /Action Blueprinting 07 FFL /Mosin-Nagant Custom Shop/Bent Bolts Genuine Cerakote Applicator www.biggorillagunworks.com

October 1, 2013, 07:27 AM	#17
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	My jug of H4350 is so slow that I have to use 4% more powder to get the velocities that Quickload predicts. I run my loads close to the threshold of short brass life. Together, I wind up hunting with my 7mmRM rifles with 9gr more H4350 than Hodgdon says is max. __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

October 1, 2013, 05:37 PM	#19
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	I have used that bullet for many years in my Model 7 SS . W-760 is the powder I use , 47 Gr. (don't start here) . The best velocity I've obtained is right around 2700 FPS . It's a very accurate load in my rifle , and all deer shot with it have been one and done ! I've only recovered two bullets from game , and both still wore their jackets , and had lost about 50% of their weight ! __________________ Don't forget to have your liberals spayed or neutered !

September 28, 2013, 06:17 PM	#1
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	7mm-08 Load Help Hi. I'm trying to get some loads figured out in time for a mule deer hunt in a few weeks. I've got some speer 145gr SBT that I'm hoping to get figured out. I'd like to know if anyone could look into their recent Speer books (#14 hopefully) and tell me what would be best. I have some H4350 but my Lee book says the load for this is ~100 fps under what I'd read elsewhere that Speer say this can do (of 2910fps if I recall correctly). Any help here would be great. I do also have some 2000-mr and Varget to work with and I'm open to suggestions. I do also have some Hornaday 139 BTSP that I haven't played with yet, but don't want to mess with too many variables this late in the game. This is a 22" 9.5 twist (Marlin X7) Thanks in advance.

September 28, 2013, 06:31 PM	#3
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	Thanks...I've visited their website many times for my various reloading projects. I was just hoping someone could tell me what Speer say their max load is... as I read that they say it'll go 2911 (IIRC). Hoping to save me a little work possibly. I may start only about 5% under max of Hodgdons data if Speer says I can go another grain or two above Hodgdons data. I do have a friends crono that I borrow when working loads.

September 28, 2013, 06:32 PM	#4
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	Just me maybe, but I'd never trust LEE's data over anyones. It's just a compilation of powdermakers data. SPEER actually does their own velocity and pressure testing. Sorry I can't help on H-4350 data from the #14 guide, but in the 11th, IMR 4350 gave them 2900 FPS and since H-4350 is just a hair slower burning, I'd be inclined to believe that H-4350 probably is capable of 2910 FPS from a 24" barrel. In the October issue of Handloader magazine there's a good article on loading the 7mm-08 and 2000-MR performed pretty much as advertised. It performed very well. Varget could be used, but would probably be a btter choice for bullets under 140 grs.

September 28, 2013, 06:35 PM	#5
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	Thanks 57K. I look at Lee's data, but like you don't bank on it. Between me any my buddy I have access to pretty much every reloading book except the Speer. Thanks for the tip on Handloader mag...I'll have to see if I can find it. I agree with you on Varget.

September 28, 2013, 08:22 PM	#6
JumpMarine Junior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 6	I've been loading 40g of Varget, OAL 2.8, 140g Nosler Ballistic Tip. Been getting consistent 1/2" groups at 100y with my Weatherby Vangard. I haven't chronographed yet so no idea on the velocity. That article in handloader was great, but I had already loaded up with Varget.

September 28, 2013, 08:38 PM	#7
BigD_in_FL Junior member Join Date: December 20, 2012 Location: The "Gunshine State" Posts: 1,981	Why are you worried about max loads versus what is the most accurate? I have never found the max load to be the most accurate; in MY guns it is usually somewhere between the middle to a little higher, nowhere near max that produces those 1/2MOA groups. The 7-08 in my guns works best with 140 running about 2800

September 28, 2013, 08:43 PM	#8
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	BigD, I understand your comment. I'd like velocity with accuracy...but yes accuracy is first. Where I'm hunting mulies a little help in velocity department can be nice as I'm usually shooting between 200-450 yards. My other rifle are like yours...best accuracy isn't usually that close to max.

September 28, 2013, 09:54 PM	#9
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	If Speer got those velocities, they tested with a real long barrel.

September 28, 2013, 10:09 PM	#10
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	Yes...good chance it was with a long tube.

September 28, 2013, 10:27 PM	#11
57K Junior member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Heart of Texas Posts: 788	24" and unless SPEER has changed, it was from a production rifle.

September 28, 2013, 10:39 PM	#12
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	If they are publishing those velocities reached from a 24" tube, their Chrono and mine are on different planets. I have never shot 145 in the 08, having said that, I cant get that velocity from a 140.

September 29, 2013, 04:10 PM	#14
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	Well, I was able to find the information. 48 grains is the max listed by Speer for h4350.

October 1, 2013, 08:59 AM	#18
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	Good points, snuffy. Clark, your hitting what I'm worried about with H4350. But I put some loads together with it last night so we'll see. One thing for sure is it fills the case...probably too fast, but we'll see. Hoping to test the loads first thing tomorrow.

October 2, 2013, 11:13 AM	#22
ntg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2013 Location: 4B - Idaho Posts: 119	My FIL has a saying that "magnums are for those trying to compensate for something else"...yea he's a wise crack. All kidding aside, I'm not buying another rifle (for now) and even if I was, it won't have a belt. Also, there's nothing I can't kill in Idaho with a 7-08.

October 2, 2013, 05:14 PM	#23
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Using 140 SGK I am getting Low to Mid 29's out of Varget and W-742…

October 2, 2013, 08:39 PM	#25
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Most rifles have a load that can be worked up that is a happy compromise between accuracy and velocity. Most of my rifles accurate loads are max or slightly north of max. If I had a rifle I had to back down a few hundred F.P.S. to make shoot, I would probably keep working on it until I did not have to back it down, or I would sell it.