25-20

[ligonierbill]

Fixin' to load and shoot this old cartridge. Dies, bullets (Speer 75's), and I hope brass on the way. I would appreciate anyone sharing their experience with this round.

Long version: For whatever reason, I have been gathering "32" bore firearms and cartridges. So far, .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 WCF (32-20), and .32 H&R Mag. Found a nice Savage 23 C 32-20, an inexpensive way to go with that round. So, a 23 B shows up (the 25-20), and the 'C' needs a stablemate. So here I am. They made a .22 LR version of that Savage line, but I have yet to see one offered. I suppose I now need to continue with the 32-20 family and find a .218 Bee. But for now, what can you tell me about 25-20?

[Smoke & Recoil]

Hey there sir, I too reload the 25-20 Win, I use IMR4198 (10 gr) and a
lead 85 grain bullet with small rifle primers. I shoot these though my
model 1892 Winchester ser #41XXX which puts it at being manufactured
in 1894.

[boondocker385]

That load is what I use.....handy little brush gun. I use mine for pkinking and blacktail dear. My grandfather used to tree stand hunt with it and would occasionally take head shots on elk at point blank range but I just use it on Blacktails "up close and personal"

[Clark]

I have an old Win 92 made in 1900 with ~~ 1920 replacement Winchester barrel on it.

The firing pin hole is twice as big as the firing pin, and I can't get past 28,000 psi with popping a magnum small rifle primer.
I loaded up as good as I could:
25-20 Sierra 75 gr hollow point 1600, 1.895", 12 gr LIL'GUN.
I feed them single shot.
Quickload thinks it is 2252 fps 28kpsi.
It chronographs at ~ 2340 fps average, so maybe 30 kpsi reality, and the primers look like blowing bubble gum.

My old eyes are shot, so I clamped a 2X pistol scope and bipod to the barrel.

It will shoot a 1" group at 50 yards.

[ligonierbill]

I might try some lead, but I found those #1600 Sierras this evening. I don't have Lil Gun, but I do have plenty of H110. May look for some Accurate 1680 or IMR-4198. Thanks for the advice; I'll see what I can do. I plan to test my 32-20's this week, and will report those also.

[Clark]

I got in an impromptu 10 mile bike race today and peddled my brains out, but there are something like 4 levels of pressure published between handloader and Pet loads for the 32-20. Piggy backing off that, the 25-20 is the same case head and they both show up in the Win 92.

Can't find that.

The twist rate in the old barrels is slow and the Sierra 1600 75 gr .257" bullet is short enough to get by.

Can't find that.

One thing I can remember: LIL'GUN can sometime squeak out a little more velocity than H110/W296 at the same peak pressure, but H110 smells better when it burns.

[SHR970]

Seat and crimp in two operations or you will lose brass. Unless you have trimmed all of the brass to the same length before loading them you are at risk!

[ligonierbill]

Always do those things...now. Had to learn the hard way, of course.

[Mike Irwin]

I, too, have a Savage 23B.

I've not done much loading for it over the years, but did put together a few rounds back in the early 1990s using the tail end of a can of Winchester 680.

Like you, I also like the .32s.

I have two S&W .32 Long revolvers (4" Regulation Police and a snub nose Model 30), a Colt Police Positive .32 New Police (.32 S&W Long by any other name), a couple of old family guns in .32 S&W, a .32 ACP (CZ 70), and a Smith M&P .32-20 and a Colt Police Positive Special .32-20.

I've been trying to find a Remington Model 25 or a Marlin 27-S (both pumps) in .32-20, but for some reason they've drived up and gone price crazy in that chambering.

I'd settle for an 1892 Winchester (price insanity!) or a Winchester 43 (slightly less price insanity)...

It's tough as hell loving the unusual...

[jag2]

I shoot them in a couple of 92s and a Rem 25, lots of fun. Right now I have the Speer 75 grn and use Accurate #9, which is close to 296/110. I usually bugger up a couple when I seat the bullet, my die set does not have an expander so I have to chamfer the neck and go slow and careful. Brass and bullets can be hard to find (for that matter so is powder) so stock up when you find them.

[ligonierbill]

There are two Model 43 .218 Bee on GB right now (same base case), but you'll have to be the judge of the insanity part.

[Smoke & Recoil]

@ jag2
Sir, I use a Lee case mouth expander/flaring die, part #90798 to flare
my 25-20 Winchester cases...never had an issue. It runs at $16.00 shipped
on e-bay.

[ligonierbill]

Thanks, I think I'll get one!

[Old Stony]

I use 4.5 gr. of Unique behind a lead bullet for two of my lever guns...Winchester and Marlin. I actually use the same weight of powder for a group of 32/20's that I shoot lead in. I don't try to push a lot of velocity though, just fun loads.

[Smoke & Recoil]

@ ligonierbill
Sir, if you're gonna use Lee dies for your 25-20 Win, the seater die
does NOT crimp the bullet, you'll have to do that in a separate step.

[ligonierbill]

I ordered a RCBS 2-die set, but on your advice, I just ordered a Lee universal case mouth expander die. Fifteen bucks, should be good to go. After a few bad experiences, if I crimp, I always do it in a separate step. Takes very little time, and the results are consistent.

I don't know what it is about these old calibers. We have new calibers for a reason...they're better. Still, there is something about the oldies. In addition to 25-20, I have 32-20 (and .32 H&R Mag - it's better - isn't it?) and .41 Long Colt. BTW, I found an old box of .41's with the shelf price penned on the box: $5.25 for 50. Guess they really are old!

[bbqncigars]

Gentlemen, I love shooting my relined 25-20 Marlin 1894 so much that I bought a progressive press just to feed it. IIRC, my dies are set up to FL size/decap/prime, Lyman M die expand, powder charge, boolit seat, FCD and eject. This makes for fast reloading with minimum effort.

[Clark]

I have bought (4) old Win 92 rifles in 25-20 in the last year of two.
During that time, 25-20 brass has been hard to find.
I have been able to find 32-20 brass, and already had some.
So I have been necking it down, but the neck wall thickness is thin and easily crushes. So I had to come up with a process. I have been making dies.
I can make a partial die from a hack sawed off piece of 7/8-14 threaded rod put in the lath and a little shoulder angle cut and then some neck diameter cut. Then rub emery cloth on it.

The rifle barrel bores seem to be either rotten or replaced with a Winchester gunsmith replacement barrel from the 1920s, and installed with too much or not enough headspace.

One Win 92 I weighed, took apart and cleaned, and then weighed again. It had over 1 pound of dirt in the little rifle. Not the one in this pic. It seems to have had little use.

[bbqncigars]

If you're going to make brass from 32-20, then I strongly advise you to get the Redding form/trim die. This little die will greatly facilitate the process without mangling cases.

[Mike Irwin]

There's a single .32-20 Marlin 27-S for sale on the auction sites right now, but a BUNCH of Remington and Marlins in .25-20...

The single .32-20 is priced at $2,000 because of its full coat of what may be factory engraving.

Sigh.

[wachtelhund1]

I picked up a .25-20 Marlin 27-S pump last November. It was in very bad shape. Extremely rusted and pitted. Did a write up on its restoration here:http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=537486 Had to replace the bolt, cartridge lifter, left side plate and make an ejector. Repair the forearm, rust blued it and had my gunsmith re-line the barrel. Asked my gunsmith to shorten the barrel from 24" to 21"; well he messed up and it has a 19" barrel now. But it is a hoot to shoot. The Marlin 27-S had two 8-40 holes in the receiver for a Hepburn peep sight. I used the two holes to make a base and mounted a Burris mini 4X scope on it, fits perfect; not too big for the samll frame rifle. I leave it in my truck for an occasional coyote shot.

I have fired about 3,000 rounds this spring and summer, most trying to find a good lead cast bullet load. Tried four different bullet molds, 67 and 86 grain molds, plus Rem 86 gr JSP bullets, four types of powder: IMR 4198, RL-7, IMR 4227 and WIN 748. The Win 748 14.5 gns worked well with the 86 gn cast bullet. I know it is way to slow of a powder, but it shot consistent 2.5" groups at 100 yards.

RL-7, 12.2 to 12.5 worked best with the Rem 86 gr JSP bullet, consistent 2" to2.5" groups at 100 yards. Cases formed from .32-20 Win brass. Fleet & Farm in my area sells .32-20 Win brass for $15.00 for 50. I bought about ten bags. To resize .32-20 Win brass to .25-20, I lube and run the cases through the .25-20 bullet seater die without the bullet seater first. I do it slowly in steps so not to crush the case. Then run the cases through the normal .25-20 sizer die. Out of 50 I might lose 5 cases.

I load my .25-20 rounds on an old Ponsness Warren P-200 press set up with a primer feed and Lee Auto Pro powder measure. Old press for an old cartridge. Works great. Yesterday, I loaded almost 200 rounds in less than an hour. I also use an M die to expand the case mouths to except the bullets since the brass is so thin.

I've got 800 Sierra 75 gn JSP bullets which I haven't tried yet.

[bbqncigars]

My 25-20 Marlin really likes a 85gr cast over 5.5gr of 2400. The 25-20 Blackhawk, unfortunately, does not like that at all.

[wachtelhund1]

My 25-20 Marlin really likes a 85gr cast over 5.5gr of 2400. The 25-20 Blackhawk, unfortunately, does not like that at all

I haven't tried reduced loads with pistol powders yet. What kind of velocity do you get with that load? With my 87 grain cast bullets and 14.5 grs of Win 748, full case load; I was averaged 1350 fps and 2 1/4" groups at 100 yards.