|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
May 26, 2010, 10:12 AM | #151 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
We're talking about civilian, on-the-street, concealed carry. Not businesses. Not homes. Not cops. Not FBI. I've already explained why. You can have a 50 gallon drum full of loaded 30 round mags in your watch store and suffer ZERO negatives. Your house can be defended by 12 different guns with 112 spare mags and you make ZERO sacrifices. You can defend your gun store with full-auto weaponry and you DON'T have to CARRY IT AROUND.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
May 26, 2010, 10:38 AM | #152 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,944
|
Quote:
Quote:
In my opinion, ya'll need to give up on the ******* contest. If you want full capacity magazines, it is possible you would need them, so go for it. If you feel the odds are so remote that you would ever use them, and choose not to carry them, don't. It's pretty simple. |
||
May 26, 2010, 10:43 AM | #153 | |
Staff
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
|
Nope. Not only are they "not good enough", they're not even on topic.
Quote:
Let's see---you and I carry guns with similar capacity; one of mine holds less. Yours is more powerful. Nether of us anticipates ever having to use one for defense. You argue that having one is not "necessary", and I believe that having one is prudent. I am permitted to have a higher capacity weapon, and I choose not to. You are not permitted to have one, and I infr that you would not carry one anyway.... |
|
May 26, 2010, 10:46 AM | #154 | |||
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
Is home defense defense of self? Yes. "Gang violence" implies "on-the-street". There's not a lot of gang violence in my home. Could gang violence be "in-the-home"? Yes, it's possible. The implication of questioning hi-cap or spare mag carry is that the reference point is OUTSIDE of home or business because, as I've said several times, there are no downsides to arming yourself with belt-fed Minigun at home. There ARE downsides to more and heavier guns out, on-the-street. Quote:
What we're having here is a conversation. A spirited debate is not automatically a "***** contest". We're having a conversation. Thank you for your opinion. You are welcome to participate, or not, your choice, but don't tell us to shut up. Quote:
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|||
May 26, 2010, 10:49 AM | #155 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,526
|
Not that it will change your mind since you've been given several examples that you dismiss for various reasons but here is another:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m.../ai_n27134440/ Rory Vertigan was a 27-year-old security professional working in Phoenix on March 26, 1999. He was leaving his office with a .25 caliber mouse-gun in his pocket when something told him to re-arm with something bigger. He did, putting on his G31, a full size Glock service pistol chambered for the .357 SIG cartridge. It was a decision he would never regret. In a matter of minutes, Vertigan found himself witness to an appalling scene. A big white Lincoln ran through a stop sign ahead of him, pursued by a Phoenix police car driven with a lone, uniformed patrolman at the wheel. The fugitive vehicle stopped, and Vertigan watched in horror as the driver stepped out, drew a Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum, and fired several shots into the patrol car. Vertigan didn't know it, but the gunman's bullets had fatally wounded Phoenix PD officer Marc Atkinson, a 28-year-old husband and father. As Vertigan came to a stop in his subcompact car, the gunman swung the Magnum in his direction. Snatching up his .357 Glock and transferring it to his left hand, Vertigan thrust it out the driver's side window and opened fire, point-shooting weak-hand only. The gunman jumped back into the Lincoln to reload, then jumped back out to engage, and Vertigan, now out of his car and in a two-handed position behind his open door, opened up on him again. The suspect leaped into his car once more, threw it in reverse, and rammed it into Vertigan's tiny Kia. Now lacerated by flying glass, Vertigan continued firing until his pistol went to slide-lock. He had no more ammunition, so he charged the ensconced gunman. The perp shoved his revolver into Vertigan's face and pulled the trigger, but it only clicked. Vertigan--six feet five, 300 pounds--grabbed the gunman and bodily ripped him out of the vehicle, disarming him and throwing him to the ground. At this point, other citizens came to his aid. Officer Atkinson was dead. Rory Vertigan had shot, wounded, disarmed and captured the cop-killer. Vertigan Lessons Chris Bird delineates several good learning points from this incident. Have enough gun. Had he been armed only with the single stack small-caliber pistol he started with, Vertigan might not have survived. Have enough ammo. If he'd been able to reload, Vertigan (who had only 14 rounds in his 16-shot G31, and ran dry) might have been able to finish the fight without closing hand-to-hand with his opponent and risking death. Bird learned the suspect had reloaded his .357 with three live rounds before he shoved the gun into Vertigan's face and pulled the trigger, the hammer falling on an empty chamber. Bird reports the heroic citizen "doesn't go anywhere now without extra magazines or a backup gun in an ankle holster." |
May 26, 2010, 10:56 AM | #156 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
Not several, but you have finally provided one single example. I can not deny that it has, in fact, happened in modern American history. It is almost exactly as I described in my previous post. This happened approximately 10 years ago, 2,000,000 DGUs per year since then (more than half of which are inside the home) but still... so IF you're involved in a DGU I will acknowledge that there is approximately a 1/200,000 chance of "needing" a reload.
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
May 26, 2010, 11:05 AM | #157 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: August 12, 2009
Location: Athens, Georgia
Posts: 2,526
|
Quote:
Quote:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Armed+...t.-a0112794991 During a second restroom stop, Dr. Peebles was finally able to slump down and retrieve a .22-caliber revolver kept for self-protection in the compartment of a van door. He hid it in the lining of his jacket. Later, during yet another bathroom break near Lufkin, Texas, Dr. Peebles decided to make his move. As he emerged from the van, he drew the revolver and started firing until the gun was empty. Three shots found their mark, striking Eizember in the chest, but they did not disable him. Eizember began pistol-whipping Dr. Peebles, who later recalled that "after about the third blow, I just went down and stayed on the ground and acted like I was out." He expected to be shot, but was not. Only later did he learn that the firing pin in Eizember's gun was defective. |
||
May 26, 2010, 11:12 AM | #158 | |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Austin, CO
Posts: 19,578
|
Quote:
I asked for examples. You believe it, you prove it. A 22 revolver? Ok. Fine. We could get into the debate about carrying a 22 for defense... but I'll leave that alone for now....
__________________
Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley |
|
May 26, 2010, 11:35 AM | #159 | |
Staff
Join Date: June 8, 2008
Posts: 4,022
|
Quote:
That doesn't seem to always be true. When a new power line was being pu up a decade ago, the power company spokesman repeatedly said that there is no evidence showing that high voltage lines present a health hazard, and the debate rages on about cell phone safety. I'm not sure what drives the difference; it's probably laws and regulations. Does anyone know whether there was any proof that lead .22 bullets actually harmed the condor? |
|
May 26, 2010, 11:38 AM | #160 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 18, 2004
Posts: 1,944
|
I'm not telling anyone to shut up, I just don't see any new ideas. It's basically, "I don't carry high caps, because it's rare that I would need them" vs. "I do carry high caps, because I might need them anyway."
I'm sitting here with a 5 shot .38 in my pocket, wondering what all the fuss is about. If someone else wants to lug around a gun with 17 rounds, why is it my concern? As long as some lawmaker isn't sitting there thinking "no one needs to carry high caps, so we'll ban them", we're gonna do just fine. |
May 26, 2010, 11:57 AM | #161 |
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: March 24, 2005
Location: Steubenville, OH
Posts: 4,446
|
All righty then. We're up to 160 posts here and going 'round and 'round.
Trouble is the " 'round" is becoming more like a round in the ring, if you get my drift , and I don't think there's anything new we can get out of this. Time to call it a day, methinks. Closed.
__________________
TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you? I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie |
Tags |
1911 , ccw , handgun , high capacity magazine , self-defense |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|