Speaking of the .380 Auto???

[The Happy kaboomer]

My old Llama .380 locks up just like a 1911......In fact it is a miniature 1911. Not blo-back.

[JMag1]

.380 might take a bit of a hit, but there are more 10mm models and loads available today than ever...it ain’t going away anytime soon.


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[Alan0354]

I don't believe 380 is going to disappear, each caliber has it's own virtue. This is the smallest one that actually have stopping power to talk about. Sure, it's not 9mm, but the gun size reflect that also. The only useful gun is the one that you can carry. Unless you are on the job that requires carrying, for people that carry but not expect to use it, that little weight can make a big difference if you just carrying it day in and day out.

The same logic applies to 32ACP, it's stronger than 25!!! Same as 25 is better than a knife!!! You cannot just say if it is not 9mm, it's nothing. It's not an all or nothing game. It all depends on your situation and requirements.


BTW, ammo shortage is not permanent, so if it takes a year to recover, it will. This is not the end of the world!!! I am buying more guns even if I cannot buy ammo. Stupid people can ban the guns, but if you buy them, you can take your time for the ammo to become available.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Alan0354

This is the smallest one that actually have stopping power to talk about. Sure, it's not 9mm, but the gun size reflect that also.

To exercise my tendency toward being overly pedantic, technically .380 ACP IS 9mm. It just happens to be 9x17 (9mm Corto or 9mm Kurz) rather than 9x19.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Being a Pocket gun fan, I remember well when the LCP first hit the Market. I believe that was back in 2008-9. It really hit the market place in full storm. I recall it was gun of the year in many places and sold over a million. Of course there were other small guns out there, but the attention did not come until the Ruger hit the road with it. You tube had many video's with the LCP and even video's with contest between it and the Keltec.
I also remember the Sig 238 was a big hit.(still is) Kind of surprised I have not bought one. Fine 380.
There use to be a forum dedicated to just small guns, but alas that is long gone.

[ammo.crafter]

My daughter belly band carries a Walther PPK/s .380 that she shoots extremely well. The gun has never had a FTE or FTF. Her work demands small, flat concealable.

I'm one of the lucky ones who has a dependable AMT Backup (.380acp) that functions flawlessly; a great pocket gun. Harsh kickback but dependable.

When concealment is not an issue, nothing beats a 45!

[JERRYS.]

the G42 tamed the .380acp that was usually in a harsh kicking blow back or a micro locked breach. I like mine, though it is the only .380 I own and the one most likely to be traded off if something else caught my interest.

[TunnelRat]

I don’t want a 380 personally, but I don’t see it going anywhere anytime soon. Many like the option of carrying pistols that are smaller than even the micro 9mms. I don’t see that changing.


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[rc]

A 380 is on my bucket list just cause I want to have one. Wanted a Beretta 85... Fell off California's "list" of approved guns for sale. Maybe a Sig 232 or CZ 83 will find it's way home some day.

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by TunnelRat

I don’t want a 380 personally, but I don’t see it going anywhere anytime soon. Many like the option of carrying pistols that are smaller than even the micro 9mms. I don’t see that changing.


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Yes.

In my book, even a 22LR is better than a knife. Of cause the best is to carry a 44magnum everywhere, but if it is not convenient, then you just have to scale down. 380 is a good compromise for self defense where people are not out to look for trouble.

[Urbanrecon]

Sig Sauer is coming out with a P365 in .380 in the next month or so.

[PSP]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Physics.
You can not make a 9mm as small as you can make a .380.
You can not make a .380 as small as a .32.
You can not make a .32 as small as a .25.

Yes, there are 9mms as small as some .380s, etc. But if the same miniaturization is used, the .380 can be made smaller.

I get your point but... except for the miraculous Seecamp. Started as a .25acp, adapted to the .32acp then, by virtue of better metallurgy, morphed into a .380acp. All in the same size pistol.

LCP and .380 Seecamp

[Carmady]

Just googled around and found

10.50 oz Seacamp .380 (no mag)

9.6 oz LCP (didn't say)

7.7 oz Kel-Tec P3AT (unloaded)

While the Seacamp is smaller, it's also the heaviest of the three above.

I wonder how the P3AT is about 2 oz lighter than the LCP.

[wild cat mccane]

Seecamp also should be considered a no buy after the company was sold.

There ACTUALLY is a 9mm in production that is as small as the LCP. Happen to have owned a few.

(They are junk)

DB9. Exact same size as my LCP. BD9 on the left and LCP on the right.



The R9 wasn't even as light or has small as the DB9. However, I think the product is just bad design as confirmed by my experience(s) and after Taurus stepped to partner with DB and then stepped right back out.

[wild cat mccane]

The LCP is heavier because LCP gen2 has slightly taller sights than P3AT and gen1 LCP, slide stop, and slightly less contoured slide than the P3AT (the mid slide chop on the P3AT isn't there on the LCP.

[1911_Hardball]

Originally Posted by Shadow9mm

The 380 still has 1 main advantage though IMHO. It is generally a direct blowback gun whereas 9mm generally needs a delaying mechanism. This means the 380 can be simpler and cheaper to produce.

The Kel-Tec and Ruger .380s are delayed blowback.

[Rockrivr1]

Been pocket carrying a P3AT for years and it's my preferred carry option for both method and gun. I have other options to carry IWB, but I prefer pocket carry the best. It's how I train and I'm fairly smooth with drawing from the pocket. With today's ammo options I don't feel undergunned with a .380.

[tallball]

When I find a 9mm pistol as small and light as my LCPII I'll consider switching.

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by PSP

I get your point but... except for the miraculous Seecamp. Started as a .25acp, adapted to the .32acp then, by virtue of better metallurgy, morphed into a .380acp. All in the same size pistol.

LCP and .380 Seecamp

Problem is how reliable is Seecamp? I saw two youtube the slide blew off, a few jamming.

[Aguila Blanca]

I can't speak for Seecamp pistols made after Larry Seecamp sold the company but, when the company was owned and operated by the Seecamps (Larry and his father, Louis, before him) the Seecamp was THE micro pistol to own. They were almost impossible to buy and they always had a waiting list. The Seecamp was la creme de la creme.

[Bill DeShivs]

The Seecamp could have been made smaller in .25 acp.

[Alan0354]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

I can't speak for Seecamp pistols made after Larry Seecamp sold the company but, when the company was owned and operated by the Seecamps (Larry and his father, Louis, before him) the Seecamp was THE micro pistol to own. They were almost impossible to buy and they always had a waiting list. The Seecamp was la creme de la creme.

I can't speak for Seecamp today, I actually had one in my hand 30+ years ago, a 32. Workmanship was rough, the feedramp was not polished at all. Metal were very thin for 32 already, I cannot imagine the 380.

It is still very hard to get today, they don't seems to want volume production. It's going to cost an arm and a leg.

As I said many times, I take each individual youtube or people's experience as a grain of salt, BUT collectively, if there's a lot of complains, that becomes a statistic regardless of what any particular reason of each complain. Seecamp is very rare, with the numbers of complain, slide blew off, miss fired, jams. I won't tough it at all.

I am sure if I get a Seecamp or Kahr, I can make it work reliably no matter what. BUT to what end? I have to go through the process of finding out what fails, go home to fix some, try again in the range, then go home and work on it more. It will likely takes like 3 to 4 cycles to get it fixed. Each time say 100 rounds, $20 per hour in the range(yes, it's that expensive here). That likely will cost like another $600 or more just to fix the gun. At this time, where to get so many rounds? Also, I am sure I have to end up buying some recoil spring, extractor and some other things to replace. $$$$

I cannot even do reloads are this is a defense gun, you don't use reloads. You have to qualify with the ammo you are going to use for self defense, $$$$

[JERRYS.]

if you have a Milford made LWS you find less than your expectations, I will take it off your hands depending upon negotiated price.

https://ibb.co/9nGSFrg

[Old Stony]

I've owned a bunch of .380's over the years, and still have some very quality made versions. Once I bought an EZ .380 S&W, there is no looking back. I can carry it and never even remember it being on my belt it's so light, and it shoots great ! I can hold it on a target and empty it very fast with very little recoil. Love it !!

[Urbanrecon]

It will be interesting to compare the sig p365 in .380 to the s&w ez .380. I'm guessing the sig will be more desirable.