Do these things really matter?.....

[wild cat mccane]

They all cost 400-500 dollars.

So why not just buy the PPQ and have the best of everything?

[dajowi]

My advice...ignore 99% of all gun reviews.

[rodfac]

Take up, Break, Wall, Reset, Etc... "My question is, in a life or death self defense situation, do these things even matter?"

Referring to the topic of the tread: In pistol shooting as in any skill requiring manual dexterity and eye/hand coordination, you start slow, following those skills you've queried about, then build speed. When required, having built the shooting foundation mentioned in your question, you'll make distant shots with confidence. Learn to walk before you run...that same foundation will not slow you down once proficiency is attained, and maintained. Rod

[hemiram]

To me, the feel of the grip and trigger shape means a lot more than takeup, etc. A grip I don't like the angle or feel of seems to throw me off more than anything else does.

[Sanch]

I don't agree with that. You also don't want to shoot any innocents. If a shot you take misses your intended target and hits and injurers or kills an innocent bystander you are going to be entering a world of hurt for potential major criminal charges and civil liabilities.

Did you learn that in a gun magazine or come up with it yourself?

You're a genius. Take rounds. Don't shoot civilians.

Might just be that carrying a handgun isn't a wise option for you.

[Kevin Rohrer]

You will not notice any of that provided you are properly trained and shoot often enough not to lost a perishable skill.

[Forte S+W]

In my honest opinion, no they don't.

In fact, based on my experience, these things seem to be used as little more than excuses for poor shooting.

"Dude, this gun is sooo inaccurate! It's totally not me, it's the gun! It's the trigger! The trigger has too much creep! It doesn't break evenly! The reset is too long! That's why my shots are all over the target! See? Take a look at this target of me shooting a Walther PPQ5 Match! *target shows mediocre grouping printing low-left* Just look at that tight group! That's why I don't trust [insert brand/make/model here] they're just sooo inaccurate because they don't have good triggers!"

[HJ857]

I would say it only matters that you practice with the pistol until you are completely comfortable and familiar with the reset, trigger break etc. Every gun is different and knowing your gun like it is an extension of your own hand is most important.

This reply by I.Cutler is the correct one.

The only thing I would explicitly add is, knowing the sight line of your handgun intimately. Everything needs to be familiar and automatic.

[KyJim]

Take up
Break
Wall
Reset
Etc..

As another poster pointed out, reset might be an issue in a defensive situation because of short-stroking---especially if you are shooting a gun you are not completely familiar with. So, just make sure you have trained on the particular gun you are carrying (always important). For the same reason, a light single-action trigger (such as might be in a 1911) could be a problem if you are used to shooting a striker-fired pistol or a revolver. You don't want the gun to discharge unless and until you want it to do so. Again, it goes back to complete familiarity with the gun.

[Sanch]

My advice...ignore 99% of all gun reviews.

^^^That right there is wise advice^^^

[Forte S+W]

Gun reviews are especially frustrating when you're both a writer and a firearms enthusiast yourself.

It gets really old, really fast reading poorly written reviews with obvious misinformation that clearly wasn't fact-checked at all, multiple typos/spelling errors which could have been caught by a basic spellchecker let alone proper proofreading, as well as obnoxious overuse of slang, jargon, and misguided attempts at humor.

Honestly, I would ask where to apply for a job writing articles for various firearms websites because I'm a far better writer as well as an investigative journalist than most I've seen online, but I'm sure that much like other fields of journalism, you basically have to know someone to get into the business, and you're pressured to write dishonest favorable reviews on products made by whoever purchased ad space on the website, which I'm not willing to do considering that misleading someone into buying faulty equipment could potentially lead to injury or death. So yeah, I'm not going to tell readers to go out and buy the next Remington R51 just because the manufacturer paid for ad space. If you want a positive review, then all you have to do is make a firearm that's actually worthy of praise, and I don't think that's an unreasonable concept.

[Sanch]

Hi Forte,

Professionalism journalism is long dead and buried.

ALL media is hearsay and inherently unreliable except for peer reviewed scientific research which requires expert testimony to substantiate. I have a friend who's a pharmaceutical executive. He was paid HUGE money for his expert testimony.

Investigative journalism is often useless depending upon the agenda of the one doing the investigating. Regardless, investigative journalism work products are considered hearsay and as such are inherently unreliable.

If one were to go with hearsay of MSM investigative journalists, there was no fraud in the 2020 Presidential Election. To believe that, I'd have to believe witnesses who witnessed vote fraud and swore under penalty of perjury of fraud (felonies) that they were lying or didn't see what they saw. There were too many independent witnesses (they had no connection to each other) who witnessed vote fraud to believe "investigative journalists" who've declared to the contrary.

The onus is on the reader, which is too often the problem. Research of about 2 years ago found that 50% of Ivy League students couldn't discern real from fake news. Worse, a majority have no clue of what to do with authentic, factual information. They lack intellectual skills necessary to link related concepts to distinguish patterns and formulate plausible predictions. In essence, factual info is useless to the majority of Americans.

Gun magazines are entertainment created to sell advertising space, which is in itself applied art of separating consumers from their money. If shooters want factual info about guns and ballistics, they should peruse professional law enforcement and medical journals, especially peer reviewed scientific research.

The way I see it, the best source of factual info is my experience. My experience was the impetus for my selling my other brands of 1911-A1s and going with Springfield Armory 1911-A1s exclusively.

If I were in the market for a new gun of any type, I'd talk to shooters who own a copy of what I might be considering. For instance, I'd like to buy an O/U shotgun. I'm thinking of going with Beretta based upon its reputation and my experience with its semiauto bird guns. But I have no personal knowledge of Beretta O/U bird guns. My guess is peer reviewed research of O/U shotguns is nonexistent. Hence, recommendations from Beretta O/U bird gun owners will almost assuredly guide my purchase. I would not rely upon gun magazine entertainment for direction. An investigative journalist might have undisclosed bias for his favorite bird gun, so his article would be worthless. However, actual experience of O/U bird gun owners might just be the best source of info. When it has been fleshed out, I might go with a brand I have yet to consider.

Never underestimate the knowledgeable experience of another.

The corollary to the above: "Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
---Mark Twain (attributed)

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Sanch

Did you learn that in a gun magazine or come up with it yourself?

You're a genius. Take rounds. Don't shoot civilians.

Might just be that carrying a handgun isn't a wise option for you.

I can think of a number of instructors with law enforcement backgrounds that would offer the same comments as sigarms228. I don’t think such comments are the sole domain of gun magazines or mean someone isn’t mentally equipped to carry a firearm. For that matter it is possible to both not get shot and not shoot other civilians (I say this last part because the comment, “You’re a genius. Take rounds. Don’t shoot civilians.”, seems to suggest otherwise. If my interpretation is wrong I apologize).


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[Sanch]

TunnelRat,

Who in their right mind would intentionally shoot innocent people?

People are pretty darn smart. When they hear gunfire, they're smart enough to hightail it outta the area.

Going off memory alone, only two non-involved (innocent) persons were wounded by gunfire during the infamous North Hollywood Shootout where at least a thousand rounds were fired during business hours.

The felony murder rule exposes felons to jeopardy for anyone killed because of their felonious acts. Hence, if a cop were to accidentally kill an innocent civilian during a shootout, the felon would be charged with the murder of the innocent civilian. The cop would be blameless.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Sanch

TunnelRat,

Who in their right mind would intentionally shoot innocent people?

People are pretty darn smart. When they hear gunfire, they're smart enough to hightail it outta the area.

Going off memory alone, only two non-involved (innocent) persons were wounded by gunfire during the infamous North Hollywood Shootout where at least a thousand rounds were fired during business hours.

The felony murder rule exposes felons to jeopardy for anyone killed because of their felonious acts. Hence, if a cop were to accidentally kill an innocent civilian during a shootout, the felon would be charged with the murder of the innocent civilian. The cop would be blameless.

People leave if they have the means to do so. In a confined space with limited exits that’s not always possible. While the innocent people scramble to leave they may cross in front of, behind, or be around the criminal in question.

Many of the members of this forum are not themselves law enforcement. A private citizen discharging a weapon to defend himself or herself isn’t always afforded the same protections as a law enforcement officer on duty. Even if a person is found innocent on a criminal level there remains the fact that not all states offer citizens protection against civil suits in the event criminal charges are dropped. The family of someone hurt or killed inadvertently may well bring a lawsuit.

Now should concerns of a criminal or civil case prevent someone from defending himself or herself? No, but they’re worth keeping in mind and not something that is the sole domain of gun magazines, imo.


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[JohnKSa]

Who in their right mind would intentionally shoot innocent people?

NOBODY is talking about intentionally shooting innocent people. If you really don't understand that, then you aren't adequately equipped to engage in discussions on this forum.

I think you do understand it though, in which case, maybe you can stop creating ridiculous strawmen. It's a waste of everyone's time.

If you have something to say, say it. If you differ with a view, say so and provide your own. There's no need to come up with a parody of someone else's statement before you respond with your own commentary.

[Radny97]

Short answer: No they don’t matter that much.

Long answer: Those who are that picky about triggers are only revealing that they don’t practice and shoot very much. I shoot a double action revolver really well. I also practice a decent amount (17000 rounds per year approx.) and do a decent amount of dry fire practice. Can i shoot a tuned 2 pound SA trigger better than a 14 pound stock DA trigger? Yes. Would i feel insecure defending myself with a gun that has a 14 pound DAO trigger? Not in the least. These reviewers who are concerned with take up, reset and over travel are speaking to the competition crowd. Where that stuff does really matter. But when i see a reviewer criticize a subcompact gun for the take up, reset or 7 pound break, i just say to myself that they haven’t thought through their gun review very deeply.


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[Sanch]

The felony murder rule protects civilians as well as cops.

We could discuss hypothetical ad infinitum that attempt to defends one's postured position. I live in the real world.

[Sanch]

Hi JohnKSA,

You might want to review preceding posts.

[TunnelRat]

Originally Posted by Sanch

The felony murder rule protects civilians as well as cops.

We could discuss hypothetical ad infinitum that attempt to defends one's postured position. I live in the real world.

As best as I can tell not every state in the US has a felony murder rule. In CA it only applies if the defendant was a direct participant in the death of the victim or if the person that dies is a peace officer. There is also the merger doctrine, held by many states, that holds that a criminal assault cannot serve as the predicate felony for the felony murder rule.

I see nothing in the felony murder rule that protects an individual against a civil suit by a family member for damages. Civil suits are part of the real world.


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[zeke]

Originally Posted by Sigkid79

So I’ve seen hundreds of YouTube gun reviews on all different makes/models. Each reviewer always touches on certain things such as:

Take up
Break
Wall
Reset
Etc..

My question is, in a life or death self defense situation, do these things even matter?

My only concern in this situation is... do I have enough firepower to stop the threat and will the gun go bang when I pull the trigger.

Am I missing something?

What matters more is your willingness to use it, is it reliable and your familiarity with it. A lot of practice/familiarity may be much better than the latest and greatest. Sometimes increasing accuracy, minimizing size and maximizing mag capacity can affect mechanical reliability, or someones ability to use it reliably.

[Sanch]

TunnelRat,

OK.

I don't want to argue the felony murder rule. Most people have no clue it exists.

[Captains1911]

Do they matter in a defensive shooting encounter...don’t know, probably not but I’ve never been in one. Do they matter in general... absolutely, any relatively experienced shooter will confirm this.

[Double Naught Spy]

ALL media is hearsay and inherently unreliable except for peer reviewed scientific research which requires expert testimony to substantiate.

LOL, I take it that you are not directly familiar with the peer review process. It isn't nearly as solid as it sounds.

[Carl the Floor Walker]

Originally Posted by Captains1911

Do they matter in a defensive shooting encounter...don’t know, probably not but I’ve never been in one. Do they matter in general... absolutely, any relatively experienced shooter will confirm this.

Agree, in a defense situation, who knows, but I doubt it. However it does not matter to myself for my personal guns, as long as it is a sweet, smooth, deliberate and controlled DAO.