Faxon ar barrel problems

[Shadow9mm]

So I already messaged Faxon and plan to call them tomorrow.

I bought a 16in faxon gunner profile barrel with a pinned gas block a few months back as an upgrade from my $90 brownells barrel.

Today was the guns 3rd outing. The gun was thoroughly cleaned after the 2nd outing with approximately 250rnds down the barrel. I shot 130 round through the gun today.

On all 3 outings the best the gun has been able to perform was approximately 2.5moa, which was with bulk fmj bullets. I was not thrilled but was giving it time.

Today I tested some hand loads with 75g hornady match bullets. The old barrel shot these bullets at just a little over 1moa. I tested 3 seating depth and was planning ot test 4 more to tune for accuracy however I have up. The gun was grouping around 3.5moa.

Was shooting at 100yds, Had a front a read bag, Scope is a 4-14x44 PSA. 4lb Larue MBT trigger

Keep in mind this barrel has around 400 rounds through it. and has been cleaned well.

barrel is a 1:8 twist, and should stabilize the 75s just fine, but its shooting equally poorly with 55s.

So I have done some cleaning. I thought I had a bad carbon ring at the start of the rifling. However it now appears to be dark and shiny. It almost looks like the free bore is all messed up. Something is off. My apologies, I dont have the best bore scope, but I made video to show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYO0HR3-dxw

[imashooter]

Happens sometimes with any and all manufacturers. If they determine they're at fault or regardless, I'm sure they'll square it.

[stagpanther]

These days manufacturers often toss the whole barrel in when doing the nitride bath--that's what this looks like to me--simply the coating gradually wearing off the higher lands. I had a problem with a faxon barrel once and my experience was that they were very responsive and eager to make things right. I suggest you give them a ring.

[Shadow9mm]

Tried to call, only option was to leaves a voice mail. Sent the. An e-mail, waiting for a response.

[Txhillbilly]

I learned long ago that cheap AR barrel's are just that - Cheap, crap barrels.
If you want a good shooting barrel, buy a barrel from a reputable barrel company, not someone that only makes AR barrel's.

Shilen, Kreiger, Bartlein, Lilja, all make great AR barrel's.

[stagpanther]

Tried to call, only option was to leaves a voice mail. Sent the. An e-mail, waiting for a response.

Hmmm...maybe I got lucky, though mine was purchased I think pre-pandemic, so who knows, maybe things have changed. Either way I do hope they do right by you. Mine's not an exceptional shooter, I didn't mean to convey they were the bee's knees, but it works OK for the money I spent.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Hmmm...maybe I got lucky, though mine was purchased I think pre-pandemic, so who knows, maybe things have changed. Either way I do hope they do right by you. Mine's not an exceptional shooter, I didn't mean to convey they were the bee's knees, but it works OK for the money I spent.

Id be happy with ok. I just dont feel that 3.5moa with match bullets in proven hand loads is close to ok. This gun has had 4 barrels on it so far, trying things out, over the years. And all shot a little over 1moa with good ammo. I needed a doner barrel for another project and wanted to try a faxon barrel with a pinned gas block on mine. I feel moa to moa and a half with match ammo and up to 2.5moa with bulk fmj is not too much of an ask, given a good trigger, free floated barrel, and nice bags on a calm day. Especially simce i have been able to fo it regularly up until now.

[stagpanther]

Id be happy with ok. I just dont feel that 3.5moa with match bullets in proven hand loads is close to ok. This gun has had 4 barrels on it so far, trying things out, over the years. And all shot a little over 1moa with good ammo. I needed a doner barrel for another project and wanted to try a faxon barrel with a pinned gas block on mine. I feel moa to moa and a half with match ammo and up to 2.5moa with bulk fmj is not too much of an ask, given a good trigger, free floated barrel, and nice bags on a calm day. Especially simce i have been able to fo it regularly up until now.

I agree with your disappointment. I think the one I bought is a 350 legend, so I never expected target grade accuracy to begin with. I hardly ever shoot it cause I don't care for the cartridge.

[DubC-Hicks]

I'm sure Faxon will take care of you, I've heard they have excellent CS, although thankfully I've never needed it. I have 4 barrels from them currently. 3 are Gunner profile and 1 pencil, ranging from 10.5-18 and all chambered in 5.56.

All shoot under 2" with 5.56 match ammo, and two average around 1".

FWIW, I've had a little better luck with Ballistic Advantage barrels and their Hansen profile rivals the Gunner in weight. They also come with a pinned block.

[MarkCO]

Faxon makes very good barrels and I am sure they will take care of it.

[Shadow9mm]

Quick update. I submitted a ticket and received an e-mail from faxon stating a ticket had been opened 3-8-2023 at 5pm and that due to a high volume of inquiries there may be a delay in response time. It has now been 2 business days and I have not received a response yet and tomorrow is saturday.

I did attempt to call faxon during business hours. My call went to an automated line that told me i could leave a message for a call back. but doing so might cause a delay in over all response if I have already submitted and e-mail ticket.

Hoping to hear something monday.

[imashooter]

Won't hurt. Scroll down to Faxon-Pat member and msg him.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry...k-/700-291588/

[Shadow9mm]

No membership there. But based on the thread it does not look promising. Several responses that were not answered relating to QC issues.

[imashooter]

Oh well. Good luck.

[Shadow9mm]

So, got a response from faxon today.

They stated they do not have an accuracy guarantee but more of a accuracy expectation.

And went further to say the accuracy expectation only applies to factory new ammo.

But did not say what the accuracy expectation is.

They asked if i had a muzzle device attached.

I answered the muzzle device question. Sent the vid of the rifling, and asked if there was any particular factory ammo they wanted me to shoot.

Will see how it goes. But im really debating. Do i spend $80 to $90 for 3 boxes of ammo, 2 match, 1 regular, with no guarantee they will do anything? Or do i put that $80-90 towards a new barrel from a different maker and cut my losses?

[stagpanther]

Did you ask them specifically about the bore condition and why it might look that way? I'm curious if they did not mention some break-in regimen. All manufacturers are going to disavow use of handloads.

[Shadow9mm]

Originally Posted by stagpanther

Did you ask them specifically about the bore condition and why it might look that way? I'm curious if they did not mention some break-in regimen. All manufacturers are going to disavow use of handloads.

So its kind of weird. I never received a response to my original ticket, other than the automatic response stating they had opened a ticket. After 3 buisness days with no response i replied to that e-mIl asking for an update. The response indicated to me, by its content, they had looked at the ticket, and im fairly sure i sent the link, but there was no mention of it in the response. In my response i did send the link, im curious to see if they mention it.

[stagpanther]

So its kind of weird. I never received a response to my original ticket, other than the automatic response stating they had opened a ticket. After 3 buisness days with no response i replied to that e-mIl asking for an update. The response indicated to me, by its content, they had looked at the ticket, and im fairly sure i sent the link, but there was no mention of it in the response. In my response i did send the link, im curious to see if they mention it.

My experience is with most companies the person answering e-mails or phone calls is not going to be the engineer who knows what's what. I generally try to be as specific as possible about what I think the problems are so when the message goes up the ladder it isn't perceived as just general discontent from someone who just wants their money back (not saying that's you--just that they might perceive it that way). You can also simply cut to the chase and send the barrel back and ask them to test it. The worst that can happen is they'll say it shot great for them and send it back, but most (but not all) companies I think would rather send you a new barrel rather than fight it out and reap bad publicity on line. As a rule I'm honest about this stuff too, even if I'm a pain in the ^&% in their eyes.

[Shadow9mm]

Im doing my best. Heres the responses so far.

Faxon 3/8/23 5:09 pm " Thank you for taking the time to contact Faxon Firearms! A ticket has been created for you and our customer service team has been notified! 


Due to a high volume of inquiries, there may be a delay in our response time.  We are responding to inquiries as quickly as possible.  We appreciate your patience in this regard. 


Sincerely,
Faxon Firearms Customer Service Team"

Me 3/13/23 at 3:12pm "I still have yet to receive a response, and its getting close to the end of the 3rd buisness day? Any idea how much longer the wait will be? 

     Thanks,"


Faxon 3-14-23 1:22pm " Thank you for contacting us. We do not have an accuracy guarantee, more so an expectation. It is also in correlation with factory new ammunition, as we can not speak on reloaded ammunition. Is there a muzzle device added to this? 


Respectfully,"

Me 3-14-23 2:01 pm "Im clear there is no guarantee, this just felt out of the norm based on my past experience.


My reloads are using the 75g hornady otm bullet, loaded to match mk262 mod 1, within 25fps, and slightly better sd/es.


I do have a extended a2 flash hider with crush washer on it. 


Im not mad, just a bit frustrated. Trying to figure out how to get it shooting. 


Per the reccomendation of a guy at the range i i ran my bore scope down after cleaning. The start of the rifling looked off to me. Heres a youtube vid i made, unlisted https://youtu.be/LYO0HR3-dxw.


Barrrl is torqued to 40ft-lb. Bcm says 40-50 for their rails. 


Heres my last group at 100yds off sand bags, free floated, 14x scope with the hornady 75s.


Would it help if i shot some factory ammo? Is there's one you would reccomended i try for trouble shooting?



Thanks"

As of now in still waiting on a response.

Update 3-16-23

Faxon 3-16-23 11:21
"

Have you tried shooting without the muzzle device? Also, as far as testing with manufactured ammunition, we would say try it with the Federal Gold Medal Match. Just to check accuracy at this time. If this does not work, we can look at replacement for this!

​

Respectfully

"

Me 3-16-23 13:06
"will remove the muzzle device, and buy a box of gold medal match.


Is there any particular group size you want? I typically shoot 20rnds groups. 4rnd slow fire, 5min cool down, repeat. Hornadys podcast said 20 rounds for statistically valid data so thats what i have been doing. Or would a couple separate 3 or 4 shot groups be better? My understanding was the informal industry standard is 3 shot groups. But hornadys podcast on dispersion was incredible, made me re-evaluate the way i test.


Any thoughts on the chamber leade from the video? It looked like it was wavy going up and down with different start points for the lands and it looked dark shiny, not bright shiny. It looked off to me based on my limited experience with 8 or 9 barrels, but you guys are the experts and im sure have looked at far more barrel than i have.


Again, really appreciate the help.


Thanks"

[stagpanther]

Your requests look polite and reasonable to me--except that "rifling looked off" is a bit ambiguous IMO. In any event, even if there is no accuracy guarantee, I would say even economy consumer grade barrels should be expected to group around 2.5 MOA at 100 yds using a good quality off the shelf ammo. I once bought a grendel barrel from a very well-known manufacturer and it shot like poop, and try as I might I couldn't get a replacement. That particular model barrel soon thereafter went out of production by them. Big surprise. I still buy other parts from them on occasion, but I'll never buy another barrel from them. I'd keep it simple and ask them to look at and test fire the barrel. Digital gunsmithing is hard!

[Shadow9mm]

Yeah, i kinda rushed a little getting the e-mail out. My thinking is, the free bore and start of the rifling looks uneven. Im suspicious thats the cause of my problems l. I assumed a perseho knows barrels would see the same issue i saw. But as tou said, no telling the position or knowledge of the person im talking to. Will see what they say.

Problem is i am getting around 3.5 to 4moa average out of the barrel. 2.5 or less i could understand, although it would leave me looking for a new barrel.

[stagpanther]

I assumed a perseho knows barrels would see the same issue i saw.

I assume you used a Telsa bore scope for the pic/video? it's pretty hard to tell what it's showing without really studying it carefully, when I look at your pic I honestly don't see anything that jumps out as defective rifling, though that might be because there's just too much black and white and not enough grey tones that show further detail. That's why I just assumed the whole thing had been dunked in nitride bath.

[Shadow9mm]

Yes, a teslong. I need to get a better one at some point, but i just got it to check copper fouling originally. The free bore just looks uneven to me. Going around the bore it undulates up and down. The crown looked clean, so it made sense that it could possibly be an issue.

[stagpanther]

Sorry--I meant Teslong, for some reason I always think of Elon Musk when I look through one of them. Are you referring to unevenness in the leade?

[Shadow9mm]

Yes, if that's the correct terminology. It looks darker and polished compared to the area around it, whick look more cut or to have mild tooling marks. and it seems to have a wave pattern going up and down and an uneven start point to the lands. They all seem to start at different distances from the chamber in relation to each other or the chamber. The other guns i have looked down, of similar or lesser quality, appeared more consistent to me.