Grafs discouraging large orders?

[Crosshair]

I was looking at ordering a bunch of primers from Graf & Sons. I know that they have been taking backorders and filling them as primers become available.

Because of the additional cost of Haz-Mat fees, I called and checked to see if they were waiting until a complete order was filled so there would be one Haz-mat fee.

I was told over the phone that they would ship primers as they got them in and would not hold them aside until the order was completed, even though they would have my money as I pay by check. They would call and ask If I wanted a partial part of the order. If I wanted to wait until the order was completely filled I would have to wait until they had all the primers in stock at once. Meaning the order would likely never be filled while they hold onto my money.

I don't want to order 4 different kinds of primers, wait 2-4 months, and have to pay 4 haz-mat fees as they come in at different times. I'll wait 2-4 months if it all gets shipped on one haz-mat, but no way am I waiting that long, risking price increases, if I then have to pay several Haz-Mat fees. I might as well go down to the local Scheel's and pick up several thousand primers for $30 per K with no purchase limit. (Yes they are in stock.)

Other online retailers are charging significantly more, leaving me with no significant price advantage, making the local retailers seem even more attractive.

Is anyone put off by this practice or am I against the flow? I find this acceptable for non-haz-mat orders. I'm still waiting for an order of 30 carbine bullets to be filled, but I find it unacceptable for haz-mat orders.

What is everyone's thoughts on this?

/Sorry if I sound ranty.

[72gator]

Well crosshair, I would have to say that if I were to order powder or primers, and they sent me partial shipments that I would hit the roof. I don't order enough yet to justify a single $20 hazmat fee... much less multiple hazmat fees. This is a poor practice Graff's is starting, IMO. On a bright side, I was able to buy both brands of large rifle primers I needed last week at a gun shop. I had to travel to Altoona (35 min.) to a larger gun shop than the ones here in my cow town. They said the hoarding seems to be easing up a bit.

[Farmland]

Doesn't JT have any primers? Where in Altoona did you get them?

[oneounceload]

Is anyone put off by this practice or am I against the flow? I find this acceptable for non-haz-mat orders.

HUH???...primers ARE a hazmat item

If you can get primers locally for 30/1000.......what are you even bothering online for? Are you serious? Days of $15/1000 are loooooong gone....grab them while you can

[72gator]

I refuse to buy from Juniata Trading, Farmland. Bisquit and I had butted heads a while back... and I vowed to never buy another item off him again. But that's another story. I lied kinda, farmland. It was Duncansville at east coast gun sales. It's all Altoona to me Anyway, they had a good selection last week and said stuff had been rolling in pretty regularly.

[olddrum1]

You have every right to turn them down and get your primers some where else. Please do so. That way my order comes up a little sooner. If you have not noticed, it not a buyers market right now. I know the folks at Grafs and they are trying to be fair to everyone due to the current situation concerning primers, and ammo. Do not mean to sound gruff but thats how it is.

[Farmland]

I can understand that. I use to buy more than a few things there. We have Gaunder Mountain on the top of the mountain but they can be very over priced. I miss Hornicks which closed soon after GM came to town. Thank goodness for Sporting Goods Discounters which has a lot better prices when it comes to guns.

I used to stop by Allegheny Trade years ago, nice guys limited guns though. All together primers have been very easy to find over the past few months though.

I have never been to East Coast, are they on old 22 or old 220?

[72gator]

East cost is kind of hard to find. Mapquest will help. I didn't use mapquest and it took me an extra 15 minutes to find it. They are on 764. Turn right at Ansley Rv(about 1/2 mi N from the 200/22 intersection). Go a block or two to Apple St. Last building on right. I was at GM on Tuesday. They are thieves! $30 a bottle for powder. $30 for regular bullets. I heard the guy at the counter at GM say they matched prices (he was on the phone). If I were in a bind I might hold them to it. If I were serious about any major purchase(s), I would travel to Cabela's at Wheeling, WV or Hamburg, Pa. All I need is a reason to go to Cabela's. I love their stores. Where you from farmland?

[Crosshair]

HUH???...primers ARE a hazmat item

Where did I say they weren't?

If you can get primers locally for 30/1000.......what are you even bothering online for?

Because I can buy 5K of CCI primers for $95 and I can buy 50K of primers on one Haz-mat. That price would justify the 2-4 month wait. Having to pay Haz-mat for every 5-10K of primers as they come in wipes out most of the savings. Combine that with a 2-4 month wait and that is simply unacceptable to me.

You have every right to turn them down and get your primers some where else.

Darn right I do. I even have an alternative lined up right now that I will go to tomorrow and get all the primers I can buy.

That way my order comes up a little sooner.

So are you paying 4 haz-mat fees when the order could be easily combined into one?

If you have not noticed, it not a buyers market right now.

Where I am that is changing. Not to mention that I stocked up WAY before the current crisis so I'm not hurting that much for primers. I'm just trying to replenish my stocks.

I know the folks at Grafs and they are trying to be fair to everyone due to the current situation concerning primers, and ammo.

So "fair" is effectively taking my money for an order that will never be filled unless I agree to take it up the butt in Haz-mat fees? What is so hard about putting my order in line and putting the primers into a box as they come in and ship it out when it all gets in. Again, this isn't an issue with non-hazmat items.

Do not mean to sound gruff but thats how it is.

Hey, I respect people who don't do that PC stuff and tell it how they see it even though I may disagree with them.

I guess I am kinda lucky that I have a Cabela's and Scheel's both in Grand Forks.

It's all about price and quality, or as I call it, "Cost and Crap" The more crap I have to deal with, the less I am willing to pay. The less crap I have to deal with, the more I am willing to pay. This is a case of Crap and Cost going to unacceptable, for me, levels.

I don't mean to rant on Graf's as a whole, just on this area. I have bought plenty of stuff from them in the past and will continue to do so when they have the best deal.

[medalguy]

Crosshair, I'm with you. I hate to have to pay multiple hazmat charges but sometimes that's the only way to get your goods. The stores won't hold partial orders until everything comes in, and I can understand their not wanting to keep their money and inventory tied up for several months. I have started placing orders with Cabela's and getting pretty good service from them, but even they want to ship each item as it comes in. Don't like it, but I understand their argument too.

[Crosshair]

I have started placing orders with Cabela's and getting pretty good service from them, but even they want to ship each item as it comes in. Don't like it, but I understand their argument too.

I get to use the "free" "site to store" shipping. Sure i pay sales tax, but that's less than the Haz-mat.

[aliencane]

Cabelas only charges one hazmat fee for an entire order. I verified this with them before placing my order for powder and primers. Some of the items were shipped the next day, and some are backordered. I've been assured that I will not be billed another hazmat fee.

Grafs policy discourages me from ordering from them.

[Maligator]

Until things normalize there are going to be situations which we do not enjoy. I understand your position of not wanting to pay multiple hazmat fees! Really I do!:barf:

Accordingly, I also see if from Grafs (or insert name of establishment here) position as well. They are not in the business of warehousing items. If they did this they would need to build additional buildings.

Unfortunaltely, the best soluion to your problem would be to cancel your order, get your money back and go to the local store and take your chances for the items to be in stock. I am NOT trying to be a wisea**, just stating simple facts.

I just received my primer order from Grafs, only took 3 months , but I understand that at times like this there is little anyone: me, the stores, suppliers, can do. So I patiently waited and got a pleasant surprise last week!

[mongoose33]

Had ordered 5k each of SP and LP primers. The SP primers arrived last week, and I had the option of waiting a week before accepting the order or turning it down.

I waited the week hoping the LP primers might come in and I'd be able to combine the two orders and save the second hazmat, but no such luck.

I accepted the order as it resulted in a per-1000 cost of, IIRC, 27.42, which is still decent.

No, I'm not happy about this, but in the end, Grafs has been pretty decent w/ me over time and I have no complaints. I want the primers, the price is ok, so that's that.

In the abstract, I can see how, if they have your money in the form of a cashed check, they already have made their profit, so why do they care if it's partial or complete? However, they'd have to set aside warehouse space and incur the coordination costs of keeping partially-filled orders around until they filled. Where would you draw the line?

[freakshow10mm]

Why should they take up space in their warehouse because you want to save a haz mat fee or two?

That's how they do business. If you don't like it, don't buy from them. For every customer that leaves, 6 more take your place.

[impalacustom]

Crosshair, tell Grafs to go pack sand and go to powder valley. They will hold your orders until everything shows up then ship under the one hazmat fee. They are with in a few dollars of Grafs even with the dealer discount at Grafs, plus they take plastic for as Grafs requires check or MO for dealers. I have pretty much stopped using Midway and Grafs for anything reloading orientated. They got too big for their britches and forgot that their customers are #1. PV is big but still have customer service in mind.

[freakshow10mm]

Graf's does accept credit cards for dealers with a 3% surcharge, as dealer prices are cash discount.

[troy_mclure]

i got slammed by graffs on the hazmat thing.

ordered 2k small pistol, 2k small rifle. they shipped in 2 packages, and were shipped within 2 days of each other, costing me an extra $22 that shouldn't have been necessary.

so i will never buy from graffs again.

[freakshow10mm]

You guys do realize they have no clue when primers are going to arrive at their dock right? They have no way of knowing those primers were coming two days later. I just got a case of CCI SRM last week out of my order for 150,000 primers. I have no clue when the rest are coming. They could be a couple weeks down the road or they could all arrive tomorrow. I don't know until they show up at my shop.

[troy_mclure]

and other places will hold peices of your order till its all assembled to make 1 shipping cost.

[Crosshair]

You guys do realize they have no clue when primers are going to arrive at their dock right?

The problem is that Graf's policy is the exception and not the rule. Every other online seller that I am aware of will either hold product in your name until the order is completely filled or will not accept your order. Graf's will accept your order and not make one mention of multiple Haz-Mat fees.

I only found out because I forsaw such a possibility and wanted to check it out. troy_mclure did not and got soaked on Haz-Mat fees.

At my job, companies that do this find themselves on my boss's bad side and quickly loose his business if it is not resolved and/or continues.

[troy_mclure]

i ordered the primers expecting to wait a few months because of so many people saying they have 10,000, and 100,000 sized orders.

i got the primers in under a month, dont know how i got skipped up the list, but the extra hazmat definately cancelled out any savings, and increased the price to gun show levels.

[freakshow10mm]

Because Grafs and many others will limit sales and allocate a certain number of products to people to spread the wealth. They don't think it's fair that an OEM ammunition manufacturer like my company should be able to swoop in and grab 100,000 bullets to fill a large order for a wholesale customer of mine, leaving everyone else on the waiting list. They had 20-30-K 115gr FMJ 9mm bullets in stock. I need 70,000 for my order. They would only sell me 10-15K.

If other places hold products for you, that's great. I certainly would not eat a HazMat fee plus shipping if I were a business that sold primers and powder but I would make it clear that backorders will be charged shipping and HazMat fee if it ships separately and would not hold orders to ship under one fee.

Truth be told, you aren't hurting Graf's business to buy elsewhere as their solid customer base will just buy what you don't. If you're doing it on principle, good for you.

[impalacustom]

^^^^ Spoken like a true businessman...

[SwampYankee]

Grafs policy discourages me from ordering from them.

Midway does the same thing and I got nailed by them and paid double Haz-mat once. At least Grafs calls you on the phone and asks whether you want the items with multiple shipping costs. Midway just charges you. Until the backlog disappears, I am only buying large quantities at a time of one specific item, hopefully to prevent 2x Hazmat costs.