Been looking for this for 24 years... Ultra-thin Model 400-22 Derringer

jamstutz · May 23, 2007, 07:55 AM

This little derringer-type handgun was advertised in various magazines in the early 80's, but I've never seen one. I collect novelties such as this, and would really like to make one part of my collection...

Any information anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.

skeeter · May 27, 2007, 03:20 AM

I thought I had seen most guns made but that is new to me too. I have a High Standard 22 mag that is about that slim without the stocks. It has the box, papers and bill of sale. I am selling it with 2 holsters and ammo for $295 if you are interested.

deadin · May 27, 2007, 07:47 AM

I'm not sure that this gun ever made it into production. Note that the small print in the add says "Soon our product will be available...". Anybody actually seen one in person?

Molasses · May 27, 2007, 09:07 AM

Dumb suggestion here, but have you tried Googling the critter or its' manufacturer? Or even using the old contact info from the ad...

Its' looks remind me of that Downsizer pistol, although it's maybe not related at all.

jamstutz · May 27, 2007, 10:10 AM

No luck Googling or trying the contact information.

I wrote to the company in 1983 and got a postcard back saying they would let me know as soon as they were available, but a month later I left for Army duty in the MP's in Germany and lost touch.

I have several High Standard derringers, a BJT derringer and a Downsizer WSP-45, and while the Downsizer looks like a close relative, I can't confirm any connection to the original Number Corp or their designer.

I'm thinking that if I am very lucky I may run across someone who has one from an original test run or even a prototype.

bobdavis · June 5, 2007, 10:05 AM

I was at a gun show here in San Antonio and think I saw your little derringer.

A guy had one in his collection - it looked like what is in the picture anyway. I couldn't remember what it was called, but I did get his card.

I'll get you his information. He said he wanted $500.

bob

obxned · June 5, 2007, 10:47 AM

I want one, but not for $500.

jamstutz · June 5, 2007, 12:22 PM

bobdavis--PM sent.

jamstutz · June 6, 2007, 10:13 AM

...Unfortunately it was not a 400-22 that he had at the show. The gentleman did say he would watch for it and let me know if he spotted one.

This may be the firearms equivalent of the 1943 copper penny...

autofull · December 13, 2008, 01:10 PM

i know, very old thread. has anyone found any fresh info on this pistol. back in the 80,s i contacted them to buy one as i was an ffl holder but, i would have had to buy them in lots of five at 90.00 dollars apiece. being smart, ahem, i knew i would never sell the other four. now, i find myself with the big regret. i am like all of you, i have had hundreds of weapons that i wish i had never sold but this piece still has a place in my heart. if i can find out more than i know and maybe obtain the prints, it is possible to have some made. my downsizer in 45 sure appears to have some similar traits to this little pocket piece. any fresh info would be held in high regard. thank you. autofull.

jamstutz · December 13, 2008, 07:50 PM

No luck so far. I'm still looking, too.

autofull · December 13, 2008, 11:22 PM

well, i spent three hrs on the us gov,t patent site trying to run down an application on this weapon. mind boggling, i want to build this weapon in a series production and finding the names and prints connected to it would really work. in these days of scanners and cnc machines, which my friends who are also into this design have, i can make this happen. why does this silly little gun interest me, i love the odd and unusual that have a purpose. i own so many silly weapons, downsizer, braverman folding revolver, pen guns, the very first-serial no-2 grendle 380-glock 17-no-23, ahh the list goes on, but i just see a use and need for this guys design. im like you, i have been looking since 83 when i did not do the lot purchase so i am very serious about this project, someone must know something somewhere. the search continues and the plot thickens. wish me luck as i never give up easily. kevin.

jamstutz · December 14, 2008, 11:12 AM

If you are able to make a production run, be sure to let me know.

Jerry

[email protected]

Molasses · December 14, 2008, 11:38 AM

Got to admit that this is intriguing. Thought back when this thread first came out that there'd be info or examples surfacing by now.

Maybe the thing to do would be to go at it from the other direction: the people involved. Is there a business association in Scottsdale, AZ that might still have records about the Numbers Corporation? How about records of incorporation or something like that? If you could get names of some of the people involved with the company and track them down...

autofull · December 14, 2008, 08:15 PM

good thought there, i have the time and a friend in arizona. this sure is being a tough on to crack as i have feelers for info out there to some very good sources. i will keep trying. thanks, kevin.

autofull · December 15, 2008, 06:55 PM

well, i have been passing on what info i have so far and i have some more fellows checking on the leads. i reall would like to have this project work out as im glad to know im not the only one that likes this weapon design. if i can find one or the prints i will be able to check his design closer to see if any changes should be made to keep the lawyers happy. i am a design engineer with 30yrs of weapon modification improvment history behind me and i have found a manufacturer in oregon that will produce it. lots of cost studies yet and price stuff to do yet but maybe we can make it happen yet. i would like to have at least 100 units made so we can get some into the hands of guys that would like to be able to carry one and not just have to own iy as a collector piece, a 22mag model would be nice also.boy, if i can just find one, well thank you for any support on this project. kevin, autofull

troy_mclure · December 16, 2008, 01:10 AM

i saw one that looked like it a few years at a gun show, but it was blued, and the add says stainless.

i noticed it because the guy was also selling the derringers that look like a wallet.
have you looked at those kind of companies yet? is looks like something they would carry.

Bill DeShivs · December 16, 2008, 02:34 AM

There was a similar derringer called the "Sundance."

jamstutz · December 16, 2008, 06:20 AM

I remember the Sundance derringer. It was a close derivitive of the High Standard derringer and quite a bit larger and thicker than this one, but operated in much the same way.

autofull · December 16, 2008, 12:37 PM

yep, i have a sundance also as a reference gun. cheap copy of the high standard. i just really appreciate the model 400-22 ultra thin model. it seems very well thought out and has a ergonomic design that needs no external safety due to the trigger design. i would think some police forces might find it interesting also. i know a model had to be submitted to batf before any production could commence so there must be one somewhere. maybe the design is solid the way it is. please excuse my typing as i can only use one hand well due to nerve damage. also my enthusiasm for this product is really at a high level as i did not know anyone even remembered the weapon. it was really a surprise to see it mentioned here. the facility in oregon will produce it if i can do my research so a sample weapon seems impearative at this point. i will not step on anyones toes or claim it is my design, i just want to see it made again. thanks for all the support. kevin.

Bill DeShivs · December 16, 2008, 02:20 PM

You may have to reverse engineer one from a HS derringer.

FMiller · December 16, 2008, 04:37 PM

Here's the associated US Patent:

http://www.google.com/patents?id=4TA...BAJ&dq=4489515

Call the law firm that did the Patent to see about contacting the inventor.

azredhawk44 · December 16, 2008, 05:07 PM

Patent granted Dec 25th, 1984. Interesting that the patent office is open and granting patents on christmas day.

jamstutz, check your inbox.

jamstutz · December 16, 2008, 07:58 PM

Replies made to PM's.

rex · December 17, 2008, 01:15 AM

If someone makes it, I'd consider buying one.

May 23, 2007, 07:55 AM	#1
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	Been looking for this for 24 years... Ultra-thin Model 400-22 Derringer This little derringer-type handgun was advertised in various magazines in the early 80's, but I've never seen one. I collect novelties such as this, and would really like to make one part of my collection... Any information anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated. __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

May 27, 2007, 10:10 AM	#5
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	No luck Googling or trying the contact information. I wrote to the company in 1983 and got a postcard back saying they would let me know as soon as they were available, but a month later I left for Army duty in the MP's in Germany and lost touch. I have several High Standard derringers, a BJT derringer and a Downsizer WSP-45, and while the Downsizer looks like a close relative, I can't confirm any connection to the original Number Corp or their designer. I'm thinking that if I am very lucky I may run across someone who has one from an original test run or even a prototype. __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

June 5, 2007, 10:05 AM	#6
bobdavis Junior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 1	Think I saw one... I was at a gun show here in San Antonio and think I saw your little derringer. A guy had one in his collection - it looked like what is in the picture anyway. I couldn't remember what it was called, but I did get his card. I'll get you his information. He said he wanted $500. bob

June 5, 2007, 10:47 AM	#7
obxned Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,128	I want one, but not for $500. __________________ “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth.” Ronald Reagan I'm a proud member of a North Carolina *Committee of Safety*

June 5, 2007, 12:22 PM	#8
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	bobdavis--PM sent. __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

May 27, 2007, 03:20 AM	#2
skeeter Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Posts: 883	I thought I had seen most guns made but that is new to me too. I have a High Standard 22 mag that is about that slim without the stocks. It has the box, papers and bill of sale. I am selling it with 2 holsters and ammo for $295 if you are interested.

May 27, 2007, 07:47 AM	#3
deadin Junior member Join Date: September 6, 2005 Location: Ocean Shores, WA Posts: 1,052	I'm not sure that this gun ever made it into production. Note that the small print in the add says "Soon our product will be available...". Anybody actually seen one in person?

May 27, 2007, 09:07 AM	#4
Molasses Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2007 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 273	Dumb suggestion here, but have you tried Googling the critter or its' manufacturer? Or even using the old contact info from the ad... Its' looks remind me of that Downsizer pistol, although it's maybe not related at all.

June 6, 2007, 10:13 AM	#9
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	bobdavis -- Thanks for the lead... ...Unfortunately it was not a 400-22 that he had at the show. The gentleman did say he would watch for it and let me know if he spotted one. This may be the firearms equivalent of the 1943 copper penny... __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

December 13, 2008, 01:10 PM	#10
autofull Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Posts: 8	i am still looking for this gun also i know, very old thread. has anyone found any fresh info on this pistol. back in the 80,s i contacted them to buy one as i was an ffl holder but, i would have had to buy them in lots of five at 90.00 dollars apiece. being smart, ahem, i knew i would never sell the other four. now, i find myself with the big regret. i am like all of you, i have had hundreds of weapons that i wish i had never sold but this piece still has a place in my heart. if i can find out more than i know and maybe obtain the prints, it is possible to have some made. my downsizer in 45 sure appears to have some similar traits to this little pocket piece. any fresh info would be held in high regard. thank you. autofull.

December 13, 2008, 07:50 PM	#11
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	No luck so far. I'm still looking, too. __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

December 13, 2008, 11:22 PM	#12
autofull Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Posts: 8	still looking well, i spent three hrs on the us gov,t patent site trying to run down an application on this weapon. mind boggling, i want to build this weapon in a series production and finding the names and prints connected to it would really work. in these days of scanners and cnc machines, which my friends who are also into this design have, i can make this happen. why does this silly little gun interest me, i love the odd and unusual that have a purpose. i own so many silly weapons, downsizer, braverman folding revolver, pen guns, the very first-serial no-2 grendle 380-glock 17-no-23, ahh the list goes on, but i just see a use and need for this guys design. im like you, i have been looking since 83 when i did not do the lot purchase so i am very serious about this project, someone must know something somewhere. the search continues and the plot thickens. wish me luck as i never give up easily. kevin.

December 14, 2008, 11:12 AM	#13
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	If you are able to make a production run, be sure to let me know. Jerry [email protected] __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

December 14, 2008, 11:38 AM	#14
Molasses Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2007 Location: Anoka, MN Posts: 273	Got to admit that this is intriguing. Thought back when this thread first came out that there'd be info or examples surfacing by now. Maybe the thing to do would be to go at it from the other direction: the people involved. Is there a business association in Scottsdale, AZ that might still have records about the Numbers Corporation? How about records of incorporation or something like that? If you could get names of some of the people involved with the company and track them down...

December 14, 2008, 08:15 PM	#15
autofull Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Posts: 8	researching good thought there, i have the time and a friend in arizona. this sure is being a tough on to crack as i have feelers for info out there to some very good sources. i will keep trying. thanks, kevin.

December 15, 2008, 06:55 PM	#16
autofull Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Posts: 8	model 400-22 ultrathin derringer well, i have been passing on what info i have so far and i have some more fellows checking on the leads. i reall would like to have this project work out as im glad to know im not the only one that likes this weapon design. if i can find one or the prints i will be able to check his design closer to see if any changes should be made to keep the lawyers happy. i am a design engineer with 30yrs of weapon modification improvment history behind me and i have found a manufacturer in oregon that will produce it. lots of cost studies yet and price stuff to do yet but maybe we can make it happen yet. i would like to have at least 100 units made so we can get some into the hands of guys that would like to be able to carry one and not just have to own iy as a collector piece, a 22mag model would be nice also.boy, if i can just find one, well thank you for any support on this project. kevin, autofull

December 16, 2008, 01:10 AM	#17
troy_mclure Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: gulf of mexico Posts: 2,716	i saw one that looked like it a few years at a gun show, but it was blued, and the add says stainless. i noticed it because the guy was also selling the derringers that look like a wallet. have you looked at those kind of companies yet? is looks like something they would carry. __________________ There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."

December 16, 2008, 02:34 AM	#18
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,980	There was a similar derringer called the "Sundance." __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 16, 2008, 06:20 AM	#19
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	I remember the Sundance derringer. It was a close derivitive of the High Standard derringer and quite a bit larger and thicker than this one, but operated in much the same way. __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

December 16, 2008, 12:37 PM	#20
autofull Junior Member Join Date: December 11, 2008 Posts: 8	sundance yep, i have a sundance also as a reference gun. cheap copy of the high standard. i just really appreciate the model 400-22 ultra thin model. it seems very well thought out and has a ergonomic design that needs no external safety due to the trigger design. i would think some police forces might find it interesting also. i know a model had to be submitted to batf before any production could commence so there must be one somewhere. maybe the design is solid the way it is. please excuse my typing as i can only use one hand well due to nerve damage. also my enthusiasm for this product is really at a high level as i did not know anyone even remembered the weapon. it was really a surprise to see it mentioned here. the facility in oregon will produce it if i can do my research so a sample weapon seems impearative at this point. i will not step on anyones toes or claim it is my design, i just want to see it made again. thanks for all the support. kevin.

December 16, 2008, 02:20 PM	#21
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,980	You may have to reverse engineer one from a HS derringer. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 16, 2008, 04:37 PM	#22
FMiller Junior Member Join Date: December 16, 2008 Posts: 1	Here's the associated US Patent: http://www.google.com/patents?id=4TA...BAJ&dq=4489515 Call the law firm that did the Patent to see about contacting the inventor.

December 16, 2008, 05:07 PM	#23
azredhawk44 Junior member Join Date: September 28, 2005 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 6,465	Patent granted Dec 25th, 1984. Interesting that the patent office is open and granting patents on christmas day. jamstutz, check your inbox.

December 16, 2008, 07:58 PM	#24
jamstutz Member Join Date: July 4, 2001 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 85	Replies made to PM's. __________________ *Pervasive government is an unholy god.*

December 17, 2008, 01:15 AM	#25
rex Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 147	If someone makes it, I'd consider buying one.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search