October 22, 2016, 11:35 PM | #26 | |
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I would definitely consider a used "Ranger" due to how cheap they are to buy and how good the quality is. Mine shoots sub half-MOA with 168 SMKs and under an inch with cheap federal hunting rounds, and it's older than I am!
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October 23, 2016, 12:58 AM | #27 |
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With that kind of budget you could get the Alaskan. It has iron sights, too. But the Sporter and the Featherweight are both very nice too. I think all the new ones have the M.O.A. trigger system. On that budget, you could also look at the pre-'64 rifles. I would.
O.K., here's my take on the push-feed vs CRF actions: My first model 70 was purchased brand new in 1973, a push-feed, it was a good rifle. Now, I have a mid-90's, Classic Sporter with controlled-round-feed, and yes, it's an even better rifle. But those push-feed versions were underrated, and because of that, they can often be found for under $400. And in my opinion, they are much better rifles than the Remington 700. Unlike the Remington, you still get a great trigger and safety. So the CRF feature is not the whole point in getting a model 70. But it is one of three major points. The push feed has two out of three, and as Meatloaf said, two out of three ain't bad. The Remington has none of the three. |
October 23, 2016, 07:31 AM | #28 | |
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HEY!! LOOK at this : Model 70 Extreme Weather SS (Thank you Red Rider) Stainless with a Bell and Carlson. I did not know about this one. The 30-06 is 7 pounds. That would put the gun with sensible scope and rings at 8 pounds. http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...eather-ss.html Not for the OP perhaps, I would be tempted with this one. |
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October 23, 2016, 08:22 AM | #29 |
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Now for $200 more than the Model 70 Extreme Weather SS you could look at the Kimber Montana. The gun has 24" barrel, all stainless, carbon fiber stock and the 30-06 is 1.5 pounds lighter! An actual mountain rifle. You could be in field with scope and fully loaded, under 7 pounds.
Either of these two can be had in 270,7mm,300 mag, etc, etc. Even 338 win mag in either rifle. The 338 both weight about the same. Both are all stainless and premium stocks (not plastic/synthetic) but the good stuff. I know the OP dont care, but; this is easy in his budget. Link, FWIW: http://www.kimberamerica.com/montana |
October 23, 2016, 09:29 AM | #30 | |
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OP, I would balance the quality of rifle with the quality of scope. A super great rifle that takes up most of your budget is going to shoot like garbage with a crappy scope. The same way a bad rifle will shoot bad regardless of glass quality. I would get something like a Model 70 or Remington 700, most 700s seem to be pretty decent rifles for the money. I would take a look at Savage, also.
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October 23, 2016, 10:42 AM | #31 | |
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I agree about a good scope or better yet, I would use the words 'appropriate' scope. I dont consider a Stainless Bell & Carlson M70 or Kimber Montana in the same class as a any current Remington or Savage. The OP's budget is $2000 he can step up to M70 or Kimber and have more than enough left for an excellent leupold scope and still have change. Or use the spare scope he already has on hand. Last edited by fourbore; October 23, 2016 at 10:50 AM. |
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October 24, 2016, 01:45 PM | #32 |
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The point of this purchase, and my original suggestion of an M70 for myself was not want a high end hunting rifle. By high end I mean in performance and construction. So I thought the M70 was in that class. Like I said I don't really have a budget, I could blow 5k if I wanted but I don't believe you can get $5k worth of performance value out of a hunting rifle. Beyond the M70 Extreme or kimber Montana it seems you begin paying for engraving, craftsmanship of the furniture, silver/gold inlays etc.
But like I said, it isn't a bench gun or wall hanger. I hunt 3rd season elk often and that means cold, damp, and I have to climb at times banging it off rocks, trees etc. |
October 24, 2016, 02:45 PM | #33 | |
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I don't think you can get a better hunting rifle than that M70 EW Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk |
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October 24, 2016, 06:03 PM | #34 |
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Well, I still need to do a little research, but looks like my collection will be adding a FN Model 70 EW 30 06. Won't be using it this year no matter how soon I get it as I need time to get familiar, settle on a scope, and develop a hand load but I'm looking forward to it.
Thanks |
October 1, 2017, 09:43 AM | #35 |
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Mosin- Marauder
In reference to mod 70 actions being all the same lengths ( pre 64)? I have a 1940 Roberts and the follower seems short as there is a home made block behind it. The ejection port appears correct as an 06 cartridge is too long. Is there a metal factory block missing? It feeds .257 fine but something is amiss .New to 70 models |
October 1, 2017, 10:05 AM | #36 |
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Hello,
Sorry for not responding sooner, My Model 70 is not a Pre-64, so I'm not sure if this will be of much help, but mine in 06 has no sort of block in the magazine or on the follower, and the follow fills up the entirety of the mag well. Sorry if this doesn't help.
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October 1, 2017, 10:27 AM | #37 | |
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October 1, 2017, 10:46 AM | #38 |
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Just though of a couple more thing's. I have never understood the term push feed, they all push feed, all of them. Used to refer to them as controlled round feed.
A though on the 30-06 I've had a few but have never hunted one time with one. That changes elk season this wear. I have a very nice load worked up using a 180 gr Hornady interlock. Was looking at them last night while loading some 243's up. Wow, never really realized just how big that case is. Set it next to a 308 case and it's huge. Need to set in next to a 25-06 case, bet it's still huge! |
October 1, 2017, 09:06 PM | #39 |
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I actually wound up getting a model 70 Super Grade .300 win mag rather than the.30-06. I'm going elk hunting this year in December in eastern Utah.
My load I developed is a 200 grain accubond and H1000 powder at 2975 fps. It is brutal on the shoulder, but shoots an easy half minute. I topped it with a Swarovski Z3 4x12x50. If I ever miss with this rifle, I will have to point the thumb and not the finger. |
October 2, 2017, 06:22 AM | #40 |
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Thanks Mosin, will search further as someone is sure to know
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October 2, 2017, 07:41 AM | #41 |
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I own a customized Winchester 670 in 35 Whelen. The 670 was priced a little less than the model 70 back in the late 1960's to early 70's. Yet this rifle shares many of the remarkable features of the model 70. It is accurate, reliable, and safe.
Jack
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October 2, 2017, 06:07 PM | #42 |
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How do ya like that Super Grade Mississippi??
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October 2, 2017, 11:49 PM | #43 | |
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October 3, 2017, 12:23 AM | #44 | |
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Controlled round feed means that the rim of the case rises up underneath the extractor as the bolt pushes it forward out of the magazine. The case is under "control" of the extractor from the instant it leaves the magazine. This is the classic Mauser system and what was used in the pre-64 model 70s. Push feed means the bolt pushes the round into the chamber and then when the case stops, the extractor snaps over the rim. In some guns, the bolt must be turned down to have this happen. The case is not under control of the extractor UNTIL it is chambered. (and often not until the action locks). This is a widely used system with variations involving extractor size, shape, and placement. Remington, Savage and others use it. Some believe the large, non rotating Mauser type extractor is superior. It may be so, but millions of guns over many decades has not shown any significant practical inferiority to the push feed designs.
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October 3, 2017, 07:32 AM | #45 | |
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October 3, 2017, 09:41 AM | #46 |
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It was recently pointed out on this forum that controlled round feed was also developed as a safety measure, to prevent a double feed in military rifles. If ya cycle the bolt far enough to strip a round out of the magazine with a push feed action, the shell is free to slide into the chamber. And if ya move the bolt back again, you can strip another shell out of the mag and jam it into the one already chambered. In some cases the point of this bullet could strike the primer & set it off (especially with fmj military ammo) with the bolt open.
This is probably less of a concern on target and sporting rifles, but in the hell of combat I'm sure strange things could happen. I remember when I toured Gettysburg, they said rifles were found after the battle that had 7 charges of bullet & powder that were rammed on top of each other in the barrel. |
October 3, 2017, 11:07 AM | #47 | |
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October 3, 2017, 12:33 PM | #48 | |
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It was fairly commonly done to substitute .30-06 parts so the Roberts could be loaded to as long an OAL as the chamber throat would take. The real enthusiasts would throat the chamber out so as to load the Roberts to magazine length with 120 gr spitzer bullets. |
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October 5, 2017, 12:06 PM | #49 |
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I love all my Winchester Model 70s. And I think the new ones are even better than the old.
If you can get your hands on the Extreme Weather version, do it!
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October 5, 2017, 01:44 PM | #50 | ||
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When I pulled targets with AMU, USMC, and Army Reserve guys, their M16's wore out push feed extractors. These guys fired thousands if not tens of thousands of rounds per month. Other things wore out to, so it is not a knock against push feed extractors. The push feed M70 would wear out its extractor. Instead of holding the cartridge against the bolt face, the extracted cartridge would fall off into the action causing a stove pipe jam. I helped a guy with a M70 push feed replace his extractor on the firing line. The match director was a gunsmith, had a box of M70 extractors, and we carefully made sure the spring loaded pin did not roll out into the grass as we changed the extractor out. M70 push feed extractors are different, I don't know how to categorize them, but there are model variations. M700 Remington extractors are one of the weakest push feed extractor designs. They wear out and you have to make sure the bolt face does not have crud impacted into the recesses because the Rem 700 extractor will break if it can't flex. I like the claw. Primarily I like claw extractor mechanisms because I can open the bolt, pull it back, and the actions do not have a spring loaded ejector which flings the brass way out in front of the firing line. Instead I can just bump the case out of the action on to the bench. Dumoulin Mauser 98 extractor claw I like M70's. It is always a hoot when the things shoot straight, all the way out to 600 yards. Now who was it that said the 30-06 can't shoot straight? I have one of the PBR's, Patrol Bolt Rifles. These were the last M70's assembled at New Haven, I think the parts were made elsewhere.
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