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Old September 10, 2018, 02:04 AM   #1
Roamin_Wade
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.378” minus .375” = .003”...or better known as a human hair

As an ammunition collector I was looking at all the Weatherby rounds and came across the fact that they make/made a .375 and a .378 round. I think the .375 is the new and the .378 is the old but I may be wrong. It may be the other way around. Does anyone know why they made one proprietary round so close to another proprietary round?
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Old September 10, 2018, 09:41 AM   #2
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.378 Weatherby still uses .375" diameter bullets.
They just wanted a number that made it sound bigger, badder, betterer, and most awesomest.


.327 Federal is of similar naming convention, with added fluff.
.312" diameter bullets, or .32 caliber; with the seven referencing .357 Mag.
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Old September 11, 2018, 09:08 AM   #3
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A maybe: To avoid confusion between Weatherby and H&H.
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Old September 11, 2018, 04:14 PM   #4
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Do you have any experience shooting the two rounds FrankenMauser?
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Old September 11, 2018, 10:02 PM   #5
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Negative.
The only .375 'caliber' rifles I've fired are .375 H&H and .375 Ruger.
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Old September 12, 2018, 02:42 PM   #6
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The .375 dates from 1944, is based on the .375 H&H and runs $122.99 per 20 from Midway. The .378 is inspired by the .416 Rigby, but not based on it. It dates from 1953 and runs $139.99 per 20.
It is alleged that Roy Weatherby invented the .378 because his .375 wasn't any better than the .375 H&H. As with anything with 'Weatherby' in its name it primarily just costs more. A box of .375 H&H ammo starts at about $60 at Midway. Far greater selection too.
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Old September 12, 2018, 04:03 PM   #7
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The difference between the 375 Weatherby and the 378 Weatherby is massive, even to inexperienced observers.

* The 375 Weatherby is an improved 375 H&H, so .530" case rim, belted, with a case head diameter of .521", shoulder diameter of .440", and a case length of 2.85", launching a .375" 300 gr bullet at 2,700 fps (a 200 fps gain over the H&H).

* The 378 Weatherby is a necked down 460 Weatherby, so the rim diameter is .580", the case head is .582", the shoulder is .560", and the case length is 2.913". It launches a .375" 300 gr bullet at 3,000 fps (about 20% faster than a 375 H&H).

Years ago, I got the chance to fire a 378 Weatherby. I owned a 375 H&H at the time, so I thought no big deal. All I can say is WOW. If you ever wanted a 375 H&H to look puny, hold it your hand next to a 378 Weatherby. The 378 Weatherby is 20% bigger in diameter than the 375. If you ever get the chance to shoot one, there is no similarity.
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Old September 12, 2018, 05:09 PM   #8
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This sort of thing isn't uncommon. When S&W came out with the 38 Special it actually fired a 35 caliber bullet. But they chose to measure the case diameter instead of bullet diameter to give buyers the appearance they were buying a larger caliber gun. The 44 mag actually fires a .429 bullet. The 257 Rigby and 7X57 are the same identical cartridge, the British just called it 257 Rigby while everyone else called it 7X57.

There are no rules for naming cartridges. The inventor can call it anything they want.
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Old September 12, 2018, 07:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
There are no rules for naming cartridges. The inventor can call it anything they want.
Pretty much...

however, there are some more or less standard conventions that are usually followed. One is that the number in the cartridge name have some relationship to the caliber of the bore, but need not be the exact diameter or the bullet used.

In the early days of pistol rounds, (revolvers are pistols, too..) the .38s were actually .38 caliber bullets. Rounds were loaded with heel type bullets (like .22LR still is today) where the widest part of the bullet is the same diameter as the case, and there is a smaller diameter "heel" of the bullet inside the case. When this changed to inside lubricated bullets the widest part of the bullet was inside the case, and of course, in order to fit, a smaller diameter. With the lead bullets of the time, the smaller diameter of the "new" bullets didn't matter much, as the lead would upset in the bore and seal well enough for accuracy.

Over time, the actual bore diameter dimensions were reduced to match the bullets, but the original caliber names were kept. Which is why .38s are actually shooting .36 (.358"" diameter bullets.

Another convention is using bore diameter measurements (not bullet diameter) in the cartridge name. All the common .300s and .308s use the same diameter bullets (.308) just .300s are named for the land to land bore diameter, while .308 is the measurement groove to groove.

As to something like the .275 Rigby, its the English measurement of 7mm (.284") minus groove diameter, changed from the actual .276" measurement for market appeal (.275 was thought to be more appealing to the buying public than .276)

Another convention is using a name that includes the parent case, such as 7mm-08 (a 7mm bullet in a necked down .308Win case) or .22-250 (a .22 made from the .250 Savage case).

However, on the other side of the pond, they do it just the opposite way, putting the parent case name first. .577/450 Martini, .450/400 Jefferries, etc.

There are other "rules" that are generally followed, and then there are a host of exceptions.
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Old September 12, 2018, 07:28 PM   #10
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A .50 BMG projectile starts out as .510" diameter, but is .0500 by the end of the barrel.
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Old September 12, 2018, 09:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
A .50 BMG projectile starts out as .510" diameter, but is .0500 by the end of the barrel.
I'll bet there's a misplaced decimal point in there somewhere.
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Old September 12, 2018, 11:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
The 257 Rigby and 7X57 are the same identical cartridge, the British just called it 257 Rigby while everyone else called it 7X57.
Ummmm, no. That's .275 Rigby. That's a .275" bore, but groove diameter is .284"-.285".

Quote:
A .50 BMG projectile starts out as .510" diameter, but is .0500 by the end of the barrel
Ohboy. Again, no. The GROOVE diameter (therefore the bullet diameter) is .510" The BORE diameter is .500", hence 50 caliber.
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Old September 16, 2018, 02:59 PM   #13
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Well there’s a lot of good info in all of your responses. I got into this group because I’m tired of Facebook but I wish I could “like” the posts I’ve seen in here like one can in FB.
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Old September 16, 2018, 11:33 PM   #14
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Maybe the diameter of the lands of a .50 BMG is 0.50"; I dunno.

But groove diameter = bore diameter and is 0.511"--which is the bullet diameter.

But enough OT for one day, okay? Back to .375/.378.
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Old September 19, 2018, 08:34 PM   #15
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I've had 4, 375H&Hs and one 378 Whby. I bought 378 about 5th hand. Everyone
thought they wanted it until they owned it. I know rifle didn't have 100rds total
when I got rid of it. The recoil didn't run me of it was accuracy. I bought dies and
fooled with it all summer. It would not touch my old Sako 375H&H for accuracy.
The 700 Rem outshot it. I had a post 64 m70 that was about the same as far
as accuracy, but Whby was a slick and pretty rifle. I've never shot a 375 Ruger
only #1 in 375H&H and I have a couple #3s in 375 Win. Only because I need
them for Ohio deer season.
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Old September 19, 2018, 09:09 PM   #16
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Just to add fuel to the fire...

340 Weatherby
330 Dakota

Both .338
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Old September 19, 2018, 09:22 PM   #17
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I have a 375 Weatherby. It is not quite a 378 Wby but if you use the old load data, its definitely a huge improvement over the H&H.
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Old September 19, 2018, 09:25 PM   #18
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Quote:
Just to add fuel to the fire...

340 Weatherby
330 Dakota

Both .338
What about the 338/378 Weatherby? Stir it in for fun.
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Old September 19, 2018, 10:09 PM   #19
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And I use 32acp and HR mag pills in my 7.65 arg Mauser reloads. 310s don't work, 312s are great
A human hair indeed
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Old September 19, 2018, 10:52 PM   #20
Jim Watson
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The first use of a .338" bullet I know of is the .33 WCF, ca 1902 in Winchester 1886 lever action.

I think the .378 Wby predates the .460.
Case is pretty much a belted .416 Rigby. Before the resurgence, the only source of Boxer .416 was by turning the belt off Weatherby brass.
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Old September 19, 2018, 11:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Just to add fuel to the fire...

340 Weatherby
330 Dakota

Both .338
Or the following:

22-250
220 Swift
222 Remington
223 Remington
224 TTH
224 Valkyrie
5.56 NATO

All the same bullet diameter.
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Old September 20, 2018, 11:37 AM   #22
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In the .22 field, I like to point out that advertising has given us the .218 Bee, .219 Zipper, .220 Swift, .221 Fireball, .222 Remington, .223 Remington, .224 Weatherby, and .225 Winchester, all shooting .224" diameter bullets.
But the .22 Jet, .22 Hornet (early), and .22 Savage don't.
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Old September 20, 2018, 04:59 PM   #23
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Quote:
But the .22 Jet, .22 Hornet (early), and .22 Savage don't.
On that note...
Along with the .22 Savage (aka .22 Hi Power, aka 5.6×52mmR), you've got the .230 Ackley.
It's .220 Swift AI loaded with a .228" bullet, in order to skirt caliber restrictions for big game hunting in Utah and Wyoming. (Whether or not a .224" or .228" groove diameter was used could be debatable. I don't recall if Ackley specified, but he was definitely not opposed to firing slightly over-sized bullets through smaller groove diameters.)
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Old September 20, 2018, 07:58 PM   #24
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I thought .230 Ackley was a true .23.
He had his own line of bullets.
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Old September 20, 2018, 09:31 PM   #25
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You're correct. I remembered incorrectly.
It wasn't based on the .220 Swift, either (I think I got that from tales told by my father at the reloading bench). It was a shortened .30-06.
I checked Ackley's Handbook (Vol 1), and it does specify ".23 caliber" multiple times, with special-order bullets listed as available from Fred Barnes or Sisk. I couldn't find a better reference to groove diameter, though. It may have been .230", or the slightly more logical .236" (already established, to some degree).
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