Identification

jamsend · November 18, 2015, 06:38 AM

I'm looking at a Baretta BL 4, 12 gauge O/U. Gun has a number stamped on the barrells at the breach and again on the butt, P26585. I cannot find anything that identifies the validity of this gun. P26585 does not identify this BL 4 as a shotgun.

Can anyone assist on finding out if this number is valid? see photos

James K · November 18, 2015, 10:44 PM

I am not sure I understand what you mean by the "validity of the gun". The number is obviously the serial number and you know the maker and model number. That is enough for any identification in a dealer's records or an inventory for insurance purposes.

Jim

Blindstitch · November 19, 2015, 03:29 AM

Are you talking about something that says it's a Beretta BL 4 or what. Clarification is needed.

jamsend · November 19, 2015, 06:46 AM

I agree with your assessment, but the numbers, P26585, are not anywhere to be found in any registery that indicates the gun is a BL 4 Baretta 12 gauge. Those numbers come up for a 22 LR.

I don't know how that can be, since it clearly is a 12 gauge shotgun. I don't know if it is a Baretta, BL 4 shotgun. I can't verify the serial numbers.

Thank you for your response.

Armed_Chicagoan · November 19, 2015, 09:00 AM

It's a Beretta, not a Baretta.

Remington74 · November 19, 2015, 09:34 AM

I tried a search and came up with the same results that you did.

I suspect there may have been a mistake on the stamping line that day.

Beretta has a service number you can call to discuss this and maybe straighten this out.

James K · November 19, 2015, 12:29 PM

If the gun says one thing and some web site says something else, I am inclined to believe the gun. But (to quote a famous person) what difference does it make? Is there some legal question? Do you live in an area where shotguns have to be registered and a problem turned up when doing so?

Jim

bedbugbilly · November 19, 2015, 01:08 PM

sBeen reading this and still trying to figure out what "validity" you are looking for? The numbers are stamped on the shotgun . . . you have it in your hands (I'm assuming) so what further do you need? If the site you are looking at has that number for a 22 . . . have you considered the site could be wrong? Happens all the time. If nothing else, call the factory and talk with them. However, if they say the number is for a 22 . . . then watch out . . your shotgun may "vaporize" and be "no longer".

Seriously though . . . the shot gun has the serial number on it and you know what it is . . all a FFL needs. As far as resale . . . or collecting . . . I really don't see where whatever serial number it has on it is going to be a problem. Most folks are going to be buying it to use. If you are keeping it . . . it will shoot just as good regardless of what number is on it.

Armed_Chicagoan · November 19, 2015, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

If the gun says one thing and some web site says something else, I am inclined to believe the gun

Exactly! I have a Remington 581, the first gun I ever bought. I was 13 when I bought it new in the spring of 1980. The date stamp in front of the serial number indicates a 1980 year of manufacture.

But go to Remington's web site and they say the gun was discontinued in 1978, which is obviously not true!

Jim Watson · November 19, 2015, 06:25 PM

Beretta's www does indeed come up with a Neos .22 for that serial.

But consider that the BL 4 shotguns were made during the 1970s and their production records may not have been computerized.

James K · November 20, 2015, 03:09 PM

FWIW, prior to 1968, many American gun companies, and those exporting to the U.S., had serial numbers based on the model. Colt, a worst case example, had one serial range for the Police Positive .38, another for the PP .32 and a third for the PP .22. Target versions had different ranges. The Officers Model had its own range, but the .22 version had a different range, etc., etc.. And of course, each auto pistol had its own range.

S&W was a bit more consistent, with each frame size having its own range, but didn't put any model identification or number on their guns.

So, police trying to trace crime guns went nuts, and even today both collectors and the folks at Colt trying to get information on a Colt by serial number often end up just plain confused.

GCA '68 gave the then-ATTD the authority to impose some system whereby the only information needed to single out a specific gun would be the maker and the serial number. Some makers (e.g., Ruger) used serial number prefixes to identify a model. S&W ultimately divorced its serial number entirely from the model number.

So, if a specific gun was made in that era, as changes were being made, and before widespread computerization, it is entirely possible that mistakes were made in record keeping, or even that two guns of different types could have the same serial number.

Jim

November 19, 2015, 06:46 AM	#4
jamsend Junior Member Join Date: November 15, 2015 Posts: 2	Identification I agree with your assessment, but the numbers, P26585, are not anywhere to be found in any registery that indicates the gun is a BL 4 Baretta 12 gauge. Those numbers come up for a 22 LR. I don't know how that can be, since it clearly is a 12 gauge shotgun. I don't know if it is a Baretta, BL 4 shotgun. I can't verify the serial numbers. Thank you for your response.

November 19, 2015, 01:08 PM	#8
bedbugbilly Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2009 Posts: 3,287	sBeen reading this and still trying to figure out what "validity" you are looking for? The numbers are stamped on the shotgun . . . you have it in your hands (I'm assuming) so what further do you need? If the site you are looking at has that number for a 22 . . . have you considered the site could be wrong? Happens all the time. If nothing else, call the factory and talk with them. However, if they say the number is for a 22 . . . then watch out . . your shotgun may "vaporize" and be "no longer". Seriously though . . . the shot gun has the serial number on it and you know what it is . . all a FFL needs. As far as resale . . . or collecting . . . I really don't see where whatever serial number it has on it is going to be a problem. Most folks are going to be buying it to use. If you are keeping it . . . it will shoot just as good regardless of what number is on it. __________________ If a pair of '51 Navies were good enough for Billy Hickok, then a single Navy on my right hip is good enough for me . . . besides . . . I'm probably only half as good as he was anyways. Hiram's Rangers Badge #63

November 18, 2015, 10:44 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not sure I understand what you mean by the "validity of the gun". The number is obviously the serial number and you know the maker and model number. That is enough for any identification in a dealer's records or an inventory for insurance purposes. Jim

November 19, 2015, 03:29 AM	#3
Blindstitch Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2013 Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin Posts: 2,692	Are you talking about something that says it's a Beretta BL 4 or what. Clarification is needed.

November 19, 2015, 09:00 AM	#5
Armed_Chicagoan Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2013 Location: Albany Park, Chicago Posts: 776	It's a Beretta, not a Baretta.

November 19, 2015, 09:34 AM	#6
Remington74 Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2012 Location: Carthage, NY Posts: 231	I tried a search and came up with the same results that you did. I suspect there may have been a mistake on the stamping line that day. Beretta has a service number you can call to discuss this and maybe straighten this out.

November 19, 2015, 12:29 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	If the gun says one thing and some web site says something else, I am inclined to believe the gun. But (to quote a famous person) what difference does it make? Is there some legal question? Do you live in an area where shotguns have to be registered and a problem turned up when doing so? Jim

November 19, 2015, 06:25 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,540	Beretta's www does indeed come up with a Neos .22 for that serial. But consider that the BL 4 shotguns were made during the 1970s and their production records may not have been computerized.

November 20, 2015, 03:09 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	FWIW, prior to 1968, many American gun companies, and those exporting to the U.S., had serial numbers based on the model. Colt, a worst case example, had one serial range for the Police Positive .38, another for the PP .32 and a third for the PP .22. Target versions had different ranges. The Officers Model had its own range, but the .22 version had a different range, etc., etc.. And of course, each auto pistol had its own range. S&W was a bit more consistent, with each frame size having its own range, but didn't put any model identification or number on their guns. So, police trying to trace crime guns went nuts, and even today both collectors and the folks at Colt trying to get information on a Colt by serial number often end up just plain confused. GCA '68 gave the then-ATTD the authority to impose some system whereby the only information needed to single out a specific gun would be the maker and the serial number. Some makers (e.g., Ruger) used serial number prefixes to identify a model. S&W ultimately divorced its serial number entirely from the model number. So, if a specific gun was made in that era, as changes were being made, and before widespread computerization, it is entirely possible that mistakes were made in record keeping, or even that two guns of different types could have the same serial number. Jim