Any New DA/SA?

[Skans]

Add me to the list of people who don't care for striker-fired guns. I Much prefer some more options in DA/SA. I probably wouldn't care if it was a striker that which is a true DA/SA.

[Whirlwind06]

Originally Posted by Skans

Add me to the list of people who don't care for striker-fired guns. I Much prefer some more options in DA/SA. I probably wouldn't care if it was a striker that which is a true DA/SA.

Check out the Walther P99 AS I think. DA first shot.

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[jr24]

Originally Posted by Whirlwind06

Check out the Walther P99 AS I think. DA first shot.

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Yes, the P99 AS is an excellent DA/SA option, though I'd just leave it in SA and use the long trigger pull of the AS (thought light at the end, still about 5 lb on my Dad's) as my safety margin.

Very good gun either way.

[JJ45]

Originally Posted by HistoryJunky

I really don't know who the XD-E appeals to. To me it is an abomination. It literally looks like Springfield R&D just said... hmmm.... yeah I think we can add a hammer to that and have less capacity! Itll be great!

It appeals to me ...I have had 4 excellent striker pistols, i have none now. I have had Ruger P90 and P97 De-cock only..An assortment of single action autos, DA/SA revolvers etc.

i was impressed by the reliability of Springfield handguns in general but prefer DA/SA actually without a thumb safety but the XD-E only comes one way AFAIK...

My carry pistols are an XD-E 3.8, Colt LW Commander .45, and a couple of Makarov PMs 9X18s I alternate shooting them quite a lot and carry one or the other concealed. They all have thumb safeties that de-activate with a downward push which is a muscle memory thing even though the Colt is obviously SA only.

The XD-E I have had only a short time but is becoming my favorite. It has been totally reliable, more accurate than any striker I have owned, quite concealable either IWB or OWB and I can carry it cocked and locked, hammer down safety on or off although I like to keep a consistent mode of carry with these three weapons.

The XD-E, trying to be more consistent, is the one I lately have been shooting and carrying the most.

[bjw741]

It appeals to me too.

I prefer DA/SA and the XD-E is the thinnest DA/SA I know of.

With the extended mag it provides adequate capacity (9+1) and the extended mag is not a hindrance for concealment.

Some complain about the DA trigger but mine has a smooth even pull. Its trigger is just as good as any of the other DA/SA pistols I've owned which include the Sig SP2022 and Beretta Cougar.

Mine is the 3.3. The 3.8 and 4.5 weren't available when I got mine. Too bad because I think I would like the 3.8 even better.

[kap69]

I'm very satisfied with my xde, too. It has what I want in caliber, safety features, action, concealment, accuracy, reliability and it is fully ambidextrous out of the box. The price was fair. The only time that I do not carry it is when I need something smaller which is not often. I could care less what it looks like. Capacity is fine, imo, for intended use. JMO

[JJ45]

Originally Posted by bjw741

It appeals to me too.

I prefer DA/SA and the XD-E is the thinnest DA/SA I know of.

With the extended mag it provides adequate capacity (9+1) and the extended mag is not a hindrance for concealment.

Some complain about the DA trigger but mine has a smooth even pull. Its trigger is just as good as any of the other DA/SA pistols I've owned which include the Sig SP2022 and Beretta Cougar.

Mine is the 3.3. The 3.8 and 4.5 weren't available when I got mine. Too bad because I think I would like the 3.8 even better.

Agreed, most of the complaints about the XD-E seem to be the DA trigger. A lot of guys say the trigger "reach" in DA mode is too long. I obviously dry fired the weapon before I bought it, and with due respect to others opinions, I couldn't find a problem with the DA squeeze and I have hands on the small side.

It seemed no different than any other "crunchenticker" and I've had more than my share.

One thing I like about the pistol is that I can dry practice (I use snap caps) either DA or SA without having to retract the slide a bit as I had to do with my old strikers. This is probably no big deal to some but it's a lot less PITA to me.

[Cosmodragoon]

Originally Posted by JJ45

Agreed, most of the complaints about the XD-E seem to be the DA trigger. A lot of guys say the trigger "reach" in DA mode is too long. I obviously dry fired the weapon before I bought it, and with due respect to others opinions, I couldn't find a problem with the DA squeeze and I have hands on the small side...

I actually prefer a "long trigger reach" because I have long fingers. When the trigger reach is short, I have to contort my finger uncomfortably to mate up properly with the trigger. Combine that with a heavy or crumby trigger pull, like on the tiny S&W Bodyguard, and it becomes a real problem.

The height doesn't bother me and I could live with the "grip zone". The only thing stopping me from buying and carrying an XDE is the manual safety.

[Cosmodragoon]

Originally Posted by Whirlwind06

Check out the Walther P99 AS I think. DA first shot.

The P99 is a real gem. It has great ergonomics. It's low-snag. The controls are mostly in plane with the gun, such as the vertical decocker button and the paddle release. That paddle release is easy to actuate with a trigger finger and can be done without repositioning. Especially on recent incarnations, the longer paddle release rides inside a lot of holsters and is not susceptible to accidental depression like some button releases.

The "AS" mode is superfluous and the P99 is easily run as a normal DA/SA. Treated as a normal DA/SA gun, the trigger is quite good. The double action has a curious feel due to the striker but it's decent. The single action is incredible. The reset is nice and short. My only complaint is that I miss having a hammer for reholstering feedback.

The P99 is relatively compact for a full-sized gun. There is a P99C but I'm not sure if Walther is still making it. Both are 1.3" wide and that's where the XDE and the new class of striker-fired subcompacts have the advantage. Between the other benefits I mentioned and the fact that some other DA/SA carry guns are 1.4" or 1.5" wide, the P99 is still a contender.

[Whirlwind06]

Those of you that like the XDE check out the trigger kit from langdon tactical
https://www.langdontactical.com/trig...ld-armory-xde/
I put this on mine and it really improves both DA and SA.

I picked up my XDE locally used for a pretty good price. I'm thinking of getting the 4.5 inch one as well.

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[Tactical Jackalope]

Man, I've been on the "if you can't beat them, join them" aside if the fence lately.

Following to see if any new ones came out.

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[corneileous]

Originally Posted by HistoryJunky

I too am disappointed in the lack of DA/SA new options at SHOT as well. I guess the gun industry thinks everyone likes striker guns and Fudd guns.

You said it. Da/Sa guns are like a dying breed because too many people seems like, wants those more -consistent trigger-pull striker-fired pistols.

I sure am glad Springfield came out with their XDE line because out of all the very few single-stack DA/SA compacts I was able to research, for the money, this was the best choice for me. I couldn’t be happier. Sometimes I wonder if I would have been better off with the 9mm version but I still like my little pocket 45. I have no doubt about it doing it’s job.


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[corneileous]

Originally Posted by HistoryJunky

I really don't know who the XD-E appeals to. To me it is an abomination. It literally looks like Springfield R&D just said... hmmm.... yeah I think we can add a hammer to that and have less capacity! Itll be great!

Well, that is your opinion and you certainly are entitled to it but I think it’s far from an abomination. It doesn’t appeal to me because this is not how I prefer to carry an EDC pistol(unless it’s my SAO 10mm Sig P220 that I carry cocked and locked as my woods gun) but at least with this little Springfield, they give you the option to carry it like a 1911 if you’re a fan of those types of guns; all three of my Beretta’s can really only be carried one way, and that’s either with the safety on or off with a decocked hammer.

But hey, there’s people who carry revolvers with only six rounds so why senselessly pick on the XDE for the fact that it actually carries a total of 8 rounds of carried with the extended magazine, even in the 45ACP version?...lol. Sure, the standard magazine only gives you 7 total rounds which is still one more round more than the average revolver but hell, I regularly pocket carry my 45XDE every day with this extra extended round magazine and with the extended round magazine I carry in my pocket, that’s 15 total rounds that I have on me whenever I leave the house so what’s the deal?...lol.


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[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon

The XD-E was Springfield's reach for those who were left out. On the one hand, I'm glad to see someone doing it. On the other hand, I'm really sad that this was it. Springfield built in a few stumbling blocks that may have limited their success. For instance, the XD-E is relatively tall for its class.

Yeah, I will admit it is a bit tall, but it’s a-little-more-than-desired height has never been an issue for me carrying this in a pocket holster or in a concealed, pancake OWB holster.

They drew some ire for putting "grip zone" on the grip area.

You’re right, they did and I realize you’re just simply pointing that out but hey, a simple talon grip covers that goofy wording up and at the same time, it greatly increases the overall grip of the pistol, especially on the 45 version. lol.

So then it’s real simple, don’t carry it with the safety on. That’s how I carry mine. I can’t really say like on the Beretta PX4 series on why you would want a manual safety on those but at least on the Springfield, it’s a really easy easy question to answer why it has a safety because of the fact that Springfield gives you the option to carry it cocked and locked like a 1911.

My PX4s can’t be carried like 1911’s but at one point, they did all have a manual safety up until I converted them all to type g’s where they no longer have a safety but carrying those as type F’s with the safety off, is no different than carrying them as a type G without a safety at all.




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[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Whirlwind06

Those of you that like the XDE check out the trigger kit from langdon tactical
https://www.langdontactical.com/trig...ld-armory-xde/
I put this on mine and it really improves both DA and SA.

I picked up my XDE locally used for a pretty good price. I'm thinking of getting the 4.5 inch one as well.

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I saw that, and I’m highly considering it but I don’t wanna pay for the low-profile hammer, though. I may have to send Mr. Langdon an email to see if I can order that just with the trigger pull stuff instead of that, and the low profile hammer because they did make that double action trigger a little bit stiff compared to my PX4s.


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[Cosmodragoon]

corneileous,

Like I say, the height and goofy "grip zone" aren't deal breakers for me. The relative height complaints might seem academic but for some people with certain body types, it might be limiting for IWB. One thing I think Walther got right with its PPS was the graduated grip lengths. It initially came with three different magazine lengths and the grip extensions were really well done. I think it was 4.4" at the shortest and around 5" at the tallest. I can't help but feel that Springfield missed the boat with their choice of 5" and 5.25".

The safety issue is a bit different. The concern comes from seeing real-life defensive encounters where a manual safety caused problems. It wasn't just people forgetting about it in the heat of the moment. It is also a matter of missing or fumbling with the safety, whether due to adrenaline, greasy hands, a compromised position, or whatever else. I know it can be left in the off position but have you ever seen a safety accidentally engaged? This is something that could happen. Long odds or not, you never know in a scramble. Just like internal lock-outs, I feel that manual safeties are unnecessary and potentially dangerous on a defensive firearm.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon

corneileous,

Like I say, the height and goofy "grip zone" aren't deal breakers for me.

Oh I know, I figured that much but, when I told you that, I was more less telling those who do, to just slap on a talon grip and call it a day.

The relative height complaints might seem academic but for some people with certain body types, it might be limiting for IWB. One thing I think Walther got right with its PPS was the graduated grip lengths. It initially came with three different magazine lengths and the grip extensions were really well done. I think it was 4.4" at the shortest and around 5" at the tallest. I can't help but feel that Springfield missed the boat with their choice of 5" and 5.25".

And that’s perfectly fine, and some ways I agree but, it’s still not an issue... for me...

The safety issue is a bit different. The concern comes from seeing real-life defensive encounters where a manual safety caused problems. It wasn't just people forgetting about it in the heat of the moment. It is also a matter of missing or fumbling with the safety, whether due to adrenaline, greasy hands, a compromised position, or whatever else. I know it can be left in the off position but have you ever seen a safety accidentally engaged? This is something that could happen. Long odds or not, you never know in a scramble. Just like internal lock-outs, I feel that manual safeties are unnecessary and potentially dangerous on a defensive firearm.

I hear ya, and there is always a potential for accidentally engaging a safety but at least the safety lever in my opinion on the XDE is very very low profile enough meaning that you’d have to try pretty hard to accidentally engage it, unlike the big gawky batwing levers that used to be on my Storms.

I feel the same way about manual safeties as you do but it’s just too bad that we can’t convert it to decocker only like I did my storms. But I’m ok with my XDE having a safety lever. I mean, I’d prefer it not to but since it’s the closest I could find to what I was looking for, I kinda had to make do with it. I’ve been carrying it since November and I can respectfully say that I have yet to accidentally flip the safety on, and it primarily gets carried in my pocket.

Manual safeties are your least favorite it sounds like so it’s only fitting that there are other options out there that’s better suited for you. Me, I don’t do striker fired guns and actually prefer hammer fired guns so what I consider a deal breaker, is not the same as you.

Now if beretta would have made a single stack compact Storm that was convertible to a type G, I would have been all over that like a rat on a Cheeto....lol.

***EDITED TO ADD***

But know, something else I just thought of, if that manual safety was really the only thing that was holding me back on this gun, I really don’t think it would be too terribly difficult to take a Dremel tool and whittle down a little on the safety levers to make them even more low profile and a lot less-likely to inadvertently engage the safety. If I hadn’t of been that interested in converting my storms to type G decocker only, I could have just as easily left them as they were and ground the type F levers they came with down quite a bit and made them a whole lot more low profile and less likely to engage the safety on them as well and pretty much accomplished the same thing without spending 50 bucks a piece in parts for each gun. Just a little bit of precise grinding and shaping in target areas, then a little bit of bluing treatment and, viola.


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[Cosmodragoon]

... unlike the big gawky batwing levers that used to be on my Storms.

I feel the same way about manual safeties as you do but it’s just too bad that we can’t convert it to decocker only like I did my storms...

... Now if beretta would have made a single stack compact Storm that was convertible to a type G, I would have been all over that like a rat on a Cheeto....lol.

I hate the batwing safeties on the Storm but Beretta did something wonderful in making it convertible. Beretta's aftermarket support for the Storm has been great too. Switching to low-profile levers with "decocker only" makes the Storm an ideal full-sized carry gun. The "Compact Carry" model comes that way and with a few other enhancements. It's still a little big compared to the modern micro nines.

Beretta makes a subcompact Storm but it's a different animal. I really wish they'd release a little single-stack version of the Storm but I don't know the geometry required for the rotating barrel system. By that same token, I wish Sig would have made a polymer analog to their P239 or a DA/SA friend for the P365. Ever since the PPS came out, I've wished that they would have made a single stack version of the P99.... Any other pipe dreams come to mind?

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon

I hate the batwing safeties on the Storm but Beretta did something wonderful in making it convertible. Beretta's aftermarket support for the Storm has been great too. Switching to low-profile levers with "decocker only" makes the Storm an ideal full-sized carry gun. The "Compact Carry" model comes that way and with a few other enhancements. It's still a little big compared to the modern micro nines.

Beretta makes a subcompact Storm but it's a different animal. I really wish they'd release a little single-stack version of the Storm but I don't know the geometry required for the rotating barrel system. By that same token, I wish Sig would have made a polymer analog to their P239 or a DA/SA friend for the P365. Ever since the PPS came out, I've wished that they would have made a single stack version of the P99.... Any other pipe dreams come to mind?

Actually, they probably could with the sub-PX4 because it’s the only model in the lineup that doesn’t have that rotating barrel technology. But, since the majority of the market wants them damn striker guns, it seems to me they put their single-stack effort into the Nano, and the APX Compact, unfortunately.

Sig had a bunch of Da/Sa models to chose from at one point but they discontinued them so it’s really no surprise that they didn’t make a Da/Sa polymer counterpart to the 365.

But no, that about wraps it up for a wish list....lol.


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[JJ45]

As I said I have the 3.8 and really like it. Only 300 rounds so far of various ammo but I've only had it a month. No malfunctions of any kind.

The 3.8 has NO "Grip Zone"

I think it would be nicer w/o a thumb safety but then you would probably get Springfield's ubiquitous grip safety I find neither of these safeties an actual problem or hindrance in the least though. You might have an accident of some kind with the thumb safety but you might also have an AD by an inadvertent trigger nudge with a striker without a safety.

The XD-E;
Double or Single action carry
Cocked and locked option
Can rack slide with the safety on
Can manually cock the pistol with the safety on
Can de-cock the pistol safely
It is a relatively "thin" pistol and I haven't found the "tallness" to be a problem and I've been carrying this weapon daily in and outside the waist band sine I got it. I am of medium build.

I don't think there are semi-auto pistols that are more reliable than Springfield's polymer framed strikers or the XD-E. There are certainly pistols that are just as reliable and have different features that some will prefer. That's why the make all kinds of guns.

[Cosmodragoon]

It isn't just that the PX4 is easily converted to decocker only. It's that the conversion is part of a routine change/upgrade using factory parts. That's a beautiful thing.

With some guns, I'd be tempted to "delete" the manual safety, internal lock, etc. However, some people have raised valid concerns about what an unscrupulous or politically motivated prosecutor could do with that. You don't want to follow up a win on staying alive with a bankrupting assault on your freedom.

[corneileous]

Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon

It isn't just that the PX4 is easily converted to decocker only. It's that the conversion is part of a routine change/upgrade using factory parts. That's a beautiful thing.

Exactly. At first I thought about just doing the simple conversion where all you do is remove the steel ball and sprung that holds the F levers down in the safety on position but it didn’t take long to where I talked myself outta that because to me, that was too much of an actual modification to where replacing the F levers with the low profile G levers was using factory parts and unless somebody ran the serial number to data from the manufacturer, they’d never know that gun didn’t come that way because it was still in factory form if it would’ve been bought that way.

With some guns, I'd be tempted to "delete" the manual safety, internal lock, etc. However, some people have raised valid concerns about what an unscrupulous or politically motivated prosecutor could do with that. You don't want to follow up a win on staying alive with a bankrupting assault on your freedom.

That’s true because like I said above about doing the type G conversion on a PX4 Storm the other way, that’s considered a “modification” from factory design and could come back to nip you in the butt.

But as I said, the safety/decocker levers on my XDE don’t concern me at all. I have no reason to believe at all that they’ll ever get flipped on by accident.




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[jr24]

But as I said, the safety/decocker levers on my XDE don’t concern me at all. I have no reason to believe at all that they’ll ever get flipped on by accident.

Different strokes, but I could never live with that possibility. My philosophy is to always train for the safety as part of my firing grip so the possibility of it not being disengaged is as reduced as possible.

I'm just too quasi-OCD paranoid to do it any other way.

The XD-E is kinda interesting but I found it pretty big and heavy for it's capacity, and would prefer a used Sig 239 (better trigger) or CZ RAMI.

But that's just my preference, it seems like a well made gun.