Hi-Tek Coated Bullet Issues?

uncle.45 · February 28, 2018, 06:32 PM

Hi, Gents!
I had an issue at the range that puzzles me, and I think the Hi-Tek coating on the bullets I am using is causing me some trouble.
The current load is--
Precision Bullets Hi-Tek2 coated 200gr LSWCs
3.3gr Clays
CCI 300s
Magtech (CBC) brass
Hodgdon lists 3.6gr as a staring load. This load is very light, but is clean and accurate. It has been cycling my 1911 fine.
This load is pretty new to me, and the most I have shot of these at any one range outing has been one 50 round box until a couple of days ago.
After about 175 rounds I started getting FTEs, and the slide 'seemed' harder to cycle by hand. I struggled through a couple more magazines, then gave up.
When I cleaned it later everything looked normal until I cleaned the barrel.
There was no leading, but the BLACK junk coming out of it just would not stop. It took five times as long as usual, and the pile of black patches was amazing.
I've never seen such a mess.
The rest of the gun was normal. It cleaned as quickly and easily as usual. Clays is really clean burning.
I have no clue why the slide became difficult to operate. I didn't get it hot enough to be a problem. It was well-lubed, and it never got very dirty.
If any of you have some insight into this, I would really like to hear from you.
Thanks!!

jmorris · February 28, 2018, 09:09 PM

Hi-Tek is not what David uses, unless he has changed something.

There are lots of folks using Hi-Tek but Precision isn’t one of them.

condor bravo · February 28, 2018, 10:09 PM

Just a quick check of Precision Bullets indicates their coating is black; hi-Tek not mentioned. The black might be moly coats but I have used many molys in rifles but without the black mess as described.

Hammerhead · March 1, 2018, 05:57 AM

IIRC Precision is moly.

I do get some black fouling with HiTek that does take a little extra scrubbing. Seems to be impervious to my favorite bore foam. Seems to be worse in polygonal bores for me.

I still shoot some coated, they're very accurate, but plated is just so much easier to clean up after in my .45.

Hammerhead · March 1, 2018, 06:00 AM

P.S. Cycling with just 3.6 grains of Clays? Nice!

My gun needs 4.0 Clays with a coated 200 SWC.

uncle.45 · March 1, 2018, 07:44 AM

I looked again, and you are right. David only describes his coating as 'black' and 'unique', and calls it Gen2.
These functioned fine in my revolver, of course, but I failed to mention what a huge mess it was. After cleaning both guns I had about 100 black patches.
I shot 175ish rounds in the 1911, and 144 rounds in my 625.
Previously, I had only fired about 50 rounds in each gun, and the cleanup was normal.
I guess I hit the threshold where the coating gets really messy.
Hodgdon lists 4.3gr as max, and I have been loading below the minimum of 3.6gr. I think I will load a couple hundred at 4.0gr, and see if a little velocity will clean them up, or make it worse.
Thanks, guys!

jmorris · March 1, 2018, 09:41 PM

Precision is certainly not “moly”. I will never forget the time I tried coating cast bullets with molybdenum powder, like was common a couple decades ago with jacketed bullets, what a disaster. They looked good, not so much for what they left behind.

I have seen the MSDS on a few coatings and the percentage of molybdenum they contain is in the low single digits.

Hammerhead · March 1, 2018, 09:45 PM

The moly is mixed with a poly coating, not moly powder by itself.

jmorris · March 2, 2018, 07:55 AM

In some of the coatings that is true, the highest percentage of molybdenum disulfide I have seen in one of the coatings was a Sandstorm coating that contained 2.3%.

Calling that mixture “Moly coating” would be about as accurate as calling Humans “nitrogen” because our body contains 3% of the element.

uncle.45 · March 9, 2018, 01:32 PM

I am finally going to make it to the range this Sunday to test some new ammo.
The problem appears to be low pressure, so I loaded 200 rounds at 3.8gr to try.
Hopefully that will cause the cases to expand better, and make the bullets obturate to the barrels better, and run much cleaner without leaving so much coating in the barrels.
I will let you know asap.

uncle.45 · March 9, 2018, 07:09 PM

I got to go to the range today instead of waiting til Sunday. I thought it was a great day until I got home, and started my 'cleaning party'.

I have never spent so much time cleaning one handgun in the last 53 years! I'm glad I only brought one 1911.

After 1 1/2 hours I just barely have this gun to the point where it is acceptably clean.
I used over 100 patches, a whole Chore Boy Copper scrubber, and pretty much wore out a new 50cal brush! I used a BUNCH of solvent, too!

I am afraid to look at the 625 the Wife was shooting, but I have never left a dirty gun sit overnight, and I am not going to start now.

Next I am going to load a batch with HP38, and see what difference it makes. If the guns are still filthy I guess I will have to find some different bullets.

I like loading these bullets, and they are terrifically accurate, but I can't live with this mess. THIS SUCKS!!

condor bravo · March 9, 2018, 09:16 PM

Uncle45
You need to try Moly Magic from Bore Tech, Inc, located at Quakertown, PA, tel 267-347-4436.
It is about $15 per 4 oz and indicted to be the only cleaner formulated for removing moly. I use it on rifles when needed with no such hassle that is plaguing you.

uncle.45 · March 10, 2018, 08:08 AM

Thanks Condor!
I will save that info in case a different powder doesn't cure my ills.

gwpercle · March 10, 2018, 09:40 AM

Looks like " black, unique , Gen2" may be new but not necessarily better than Gen1.
Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like you , cleaning them isn't the fun part.
You didn't mention the solvent you used but my thought is if Ed's Red Bore Cleaner wont cut it I'm going to use another bullet. Some of those high tech Gen 2 solvents can get really pricey.
My last gallon of Ed's Red cost me $18.00.
Gary

uncle.45 · March 10, 2018, 11:36 AM

Thanks Gary!
I didn't even think about Ed's Red.
I will make a batch, and let you know if it works.

uncle.45 · March 10, 2018, 05:54 PM

I have been away all day, but now I will give a progress report.
I was dreading cleaning my revolver after such a bad time with my 1911.
Scrounging around the garage, and a trip to Wally World produced the ingredients for a batch of Ed's Red.
Much to my surprise and pleasure it worked beautifully!
It took me way less time to get my 625 properly cleaned than it did to half-ass clean my 1911 without it.
Now I will be able to use the other thousand or so of these bullets without worrying about the cleanup.
I like these Precision Bullets 200gr SWCs. They load and shoot great!
Now that I can get the crud out of my guns after shooting, I am pleased.
Good News!!

uncle.45 · March 11, 2018, 03:49 PM

I got my dirty 1911 back out and finished the job with Ed's Red.
One wet patch, a few strokes with a wet brush, one dry patch, and one lightly-oiled patch later it was CLEAN! Happy-happy!
Now I am going to try 200 rounds with HP38 to see how it compares.
Either way, I have clean guns again, and I can shoot bullets I like.
Thank you, Ed Harris!

February 28, 2018, 06:32 PM	#1
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	Hi-Tek Coated Bullet Issues? Hi, Gents! I had an issue at the range that puzzles me, and I think the Hi-Tek coating on the bullets I am using is causing me some trouble. The current load is-- Precision Bullets Hi-Tek2 coated 200gr LSWCs 3.3gr Clays CCI 300s Magtech (CBC) brass Hodgdon lists 3.6gr as a staring load. This load is very light, but is clean and accurate. It has been cycling my 1911 fine. This load is pretty new to me, and the most I have shot of these at any one range outing has been one 50 round box until a couple of days ago. After about 175 rounds I started getting FTEs, and the slide 'seemed' harder to cycle by hand. I struggled through a couple more magazines, then gave up. When I cleaned it later everything looked normal until I cleaned the barrel. There was no leading, but the BLACK junk coming out of it just would not stop. It took five times as long as usual, and the pile of black patches was amazing. I've never seen such a mess. The rest of the gun was normal. It cleaned as quickly and easily as usual. Clays is really clean burning. I have no clue why the slide became difficult to operate. I didn't get it hot enough to be a problem. It was well-lubed, and it never got very dirty. If any of you have some insight into this, I would really like to hear from you. Thanks!! __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

February 28, 2018, 10:09 PM	#3
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Just a quick check of Precision Bullets indicates their coating is black; hi-Tek not mentioned. The black might be moly coats but I have used many molys in rifles but without the black mess as described. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

March 1, 2018, 07:44 AM	#6
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	I looked again, and you are right. David only describes his coating as 'black' and 'unique', and calls it Gen2. These functioned fine in my revolver, of course, but I failed to mention what a huge mess it was. After cleaning both guns I had about 100 black patches. I shot 175ish rounds in the 1911, and 144 rounds in my 625. Previously, I had only fired about 50 rounds in each gun, and the cleanup was normal. I guess I hit the threshold where the coating gets really messy. Hodgdon lists 4.3gr as max, and I have been loading below the minimum of 3.6gr. I think I will load a couple hundred at 4.0gr, and see if a little velocity will clean them up, or make it worse. Thanks, guys! __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

March 9, 2018, 01:32 PM	#10
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	I am finally going to make it to the range this Sunday to test some new ammo. The problem appears to be low pressure, so I loaded 200 rounds at 3.8gr to try. Hopefully that will cause the cases to expand better, and make the bullets obturate to the barrels better, and run much cleaner without leaving so much coating in the barrels. I will let you know asap. __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

March 9, 2018, 07:09 PM	#11
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	THIS SUCKS!! I got to go to the range today instead of waiting til Sunday. I thought it was a great day until I got home, and started my 'cleaning party'. I have never spent so much time cleaning one handgun in the last 53 years! I'm glad I only brought one 1911. After 1 1/2 hours I just barely have this gun to the point where it is acceptably clean. I used over 100 patches, a whole Chore Boy Copper scrubber, and pretty much wore out a new 50cal brush! I used a BUNCH of solvent, too! I am afraid to look at the 625 the Wife was shooting, but I have never left a dirty gun sit overnight, and I am not going to start now. Next I am going to load a batch with HP38, and see what difference it makes. If the guns are still filthy I guess I will have to find some different bullets. I like loading these bullets, and they are terrifically accurate, but I can't live with this mess. THIS SUCKS!! __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

February 28, 2018, 09:09 PM	#2
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	Hi-Tek is not what David uses, unless he has changed something. There are lots of folks using Hi-Tek but Precision isn’t one of them.

March 1, 2018, 05:57 AM	#4
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	IIRC Precision is moly. I do get some black fouling with HiTek that does take a little extra scrubbing. Seems to be impervious to my favorite bore foam. Seems to be worse in polygonal bores for me. I still shoot some coated, they're very accurate, but plated is just so much easier to clean up after in my .45.

March 1, 2018, 06:00 AM	#5
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	P.S. Cycling with just 3.6 grains of Clays? Nice! My gun needs 4.0 Clays with a coated 200 SWC.

March 1, 2018, 09:41 PM	#7
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	Precision is certainly not “moly”. I will never forget the time I tried coating cast bullets with molybdenum powder, like was common a couple decades ago with jacketed bullets, what a disaster. They looked good, not so much for what they left behind. I have seen the MSDS on a few coatings and the percentage of molybdenum they contain is in the low single digits.

March 1, 2018, 09:45 PM	#8
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	The moly is mixed with a poly coating, not moly powder by itself.

March 2, 2018, 07:55 AM	#9
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	In some of the coatings that is true, the highest percentage of molybdenum disulfide I have seen in one of the coatings was a Sandstorm coating that contained 2.3%. Calling that mixture “Moly coating” would be about as accurate as calling Humans “nitrogen” because our body contains 3% of the element.

March 9, 2018, 09:16 PM	#12
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Uncle45 You need to try Moly Magic from Bore Tech, Inc, located at Quakertown, PA, tel 267-347-4436. It is about $15 per 4 oz and indicted to be the only cleaner formulated for removing moly. I use it on rifles when needed with no such hassle that is plaguing you. __________________ Ouch, the dreaded "M-1 thumb", you just know it will happen eventually, so why not do it now and get it over with??

March 10, 2018, 08:08 AM	#13
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	Thanks Condor! I will save that info in case a different powder doesn't cure my ills. __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

March 10, 2018, 09:40 AM	#14
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Looks like " black, unique , Gen2" may be new but not necessarily better than Gen1. Thanks for the heads up on this one. Like you , cleaning them isn't the fun part. You didn't mention the solvent you used but my thought is if Ed's Red Bore Cleaner wont cut it I'm going to use another bullet. Some of those high tech Gen 2 solvents can get really pricey. My last gallon of Ed's Red cost me $18.00. Gary

March 10, 2018, 11:36 AM	#15
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	Thanks Gary! I didn't even think about Ed's Red. I will make a batch, and let you know if it works. __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

March 10, 2018, 05:54 PM	#16
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	Good News For a Change! I have been away all day, but now I will give a progress report. I was dreading cleaning my revolver after such a bad time with my 1911. Scrounging around the garage, and a trip to Wally World produced the ingredients for a batch of Ed's Red. Much to my surprise and pleasure it worked beautifully! It took me way less time to get my 625 properly cleaned than it did to half-ass clean my 1911 without it. Now I will be able to use the other thousand or so of these bullets without worrying about the cleanup. I like these Precision Bullets 200gr SWCs. They load and shoot great! Now that I can get the crud out of my guns after shooting, I am pleased. Good News!! __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!

March 11, 2018, 03:49 PM	#17
uncle.45 Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2017 Location: Lakeland, Florida Posts: 134	Good News 2.0 I got my dirty 1911 back out and finished the job with Ed's Red. One wet patch, a few strokes with a wet brush, one dry patch, and one lightly-oiled patch later it was CLEAN! Happy-happy! Now I am going to try 200 rounds with HP38 to see how it compares. Either way, I have clean guns again, and I can shoot bullets I like. Thank you, Ed Harris! __________________ Shoot Often, Have Fun, BE SAFE!