Uberti: Difference between Cimarron vs Taylor's

ClemBert · March 13, 2009, 03:56 PM

Is there a difference between a Cimarron, Taylor's or other importer when it comes to Uberti manufactured firearms? Specifically, if I'm looking at a Colt or Remington replica BP revolver is there a difference in quality between the importers? The importation marks may be different but it seems hard to believe that Uberti would make a model for Cimarron and a different one for Taylor's. I've read some threads where some will claim that Cimarron only takes the best-of-the-best from Uberti. I assume it is implied that Taylor's and other would take the less than best-of-the-best. Any verifiable truth to this....or just internet rumor? I mean, am I to believe there is some QA guy at the Uberti factory putting these BP revolvers into different bins?

mykeal · March 13, 2009, 06:53 PM

You will never get 'verification' or refutation that one importer takes anything he gets and another 'cherry picks' the best, so you're just going to have to decide for yourself whether it's true.

Cimarron's guns have a reputation for high quality. There are few complaints about the guns they sell in the forums. They claim that they inspect all of them and reject those they don't like. I don't know for a fact if that's true or just a marketing claim.

I do have one gun purchased new from Taylor's and one purchased used that was imported by Cimarron. I can't tell which is which without looking at the box or reading the inscription on the Cimarron gun. Both are fine guns.

Fingers McGee · March 13, 2009, 11:16 PM

What Mykeal said.

FM

Hafoc · March 14, 2009, 11:56 AM

Think what it would take for an importer to cherry-pick the revolvers.

Somebody would have to be in the Uberti factory, function-testing individual revolvers as they came off the assembly line. They're all going to have to function, for safety and liability reasons, so a simple go-no go check wouldn't do it; it would have to be a very detailed inspection by a revolver crank who knew what to look for.

You'd have to do this unfinished, since one area where different importers DO differ is in the markings and the finishes they offer. So having assembled the revolver and tested it, you partially disassemble it, send it back for finishing, reassemble while putting on whatever special details (brass vs. steel trigger guard or grip frame, special grips, etc) the supplier might want, and only then pack it up and ship it out.

Far more likely the Joe Bagadonutz Old West Emporium, Inc., calls Uberti and says "We want a thousand single actions, steel grip frames, old style ejectors, black rubber grips with our logo on them, coil hand springs, and a top-of-the-line hand fitting by your best gunsmith on each one." Now compared to actual cherry-picking it's downright easy. THAT I believe they will do.

ClemBert · March 14, 2009, 12:05 PM

Texas Jack's is an Uberti dealer. I noticed their online catalog has "Texas Jack's Percussion by A. Uberti" and "Cimaron Pecussion".

Uberti - 1858 Remington Army $277.95

Cimarron - 1858 Remington Army $333.41

Both of those products have the same catalog number CA107. So I called Texas Jack's up to ask them what the difference was. I was told they are exactly the same gun except the Cimarron one is marked "Cimarron" while the other cheaper one is just marked "Uberti". So I asked, if they are exactly the same why would you buy a Cimarron imported firearm. His response...if you want it to say Cimarron you pay the extra money otherwise the guns are exactly the same in quality and appearance.

At this point I could care less if it says Cimarron or not if the firearms are otherwise exactly the same in quality and appearance. Oddly, I would have expected the cheaper one to have someone's importation mark on it.

Indian Outlaw · March 14, 2009, 05:02 PM

I won't be buying any more new Cimarrons.

sundance44s · March 14, 2009, 05:09 PM

I`ve got Pietta`s and Uberti`s with every name out there selling them stamped on the barrels ....Even Cabelas on one of my Piettas ....I doubt very seriously if any of there stores are flying their people to Italy to inspect the guns that will be stamped with their names ...they have all been a crap shoot for me .......I `ve never had to look very hard to find something wrong with all of them .

CraigC · March 14, 2009, 11:28 PM

According to my correspondences with Cimarron, there IS someone at the Uberti plant that handles the extra QC on their guns and they are supposed to be inspected again in Fredericksburg before they are shipped to dealers. None of the other importers do that. Personally, I'll pay a little extra, particularly since customer service is handled out of Texas. I had a problem with my 1860 Richards Type II and they sent me a new sixgun. Cimarron's lettering is also better than most.

AdmiralB · March 28, 2009, 11:07 PM

Texas Jack's is Cimarron, it's their retail business. As a result, when you buy from TJ's, you're paying 'retail'.

Buffalo Arms is a Cimarron dealer, and they typically sell Cimarron for about the same prices as TJ's lists for 'Uberti'. And pretty much as cheap as, or cheaper than anyone else's Ubertis.

I've bought six Ubertis from Midway. All were sufficiently flawed that I sent them back - three of them were nonfunctional.

All six of my Cimarrons work fine. Two of them had issues, but they were minor and quickly corrected via warranty.

I've concluded that QC on any Italian C&B just plain sucks. Some are good, it seems many aren't. Cimarron appears to pre-junk the stuff they get, so at this point they're the only ones I'll buy.

Hawg · March 28, 2009, 11:24 PM

I've got a Cimarron SAA and a Uberti imported by Stoeger. The finish is much better on the Cimarron and the period correct style of lettering on the barrel is much more pleasing than the big deep block lettering on the Stoeger. For a C&B the best bang for the buck is Pietta.

ClemBert · March 29, 2009, 11:45 AM

I went ahead and ordered a Cimarron imported Uberti through Buffalo Arms. It won't be here until later this week. I hope I'm not disappointed. My buddy bought the Cabela's Pietta on sale for $189.99 a couple of months ago. How can you go wrong with that price? Anyhow, I bought the Uberti just to be different from him. We'll see how the two compare. I do know his Pietta is very stiff on cylinder rotation. Maybe he just needs to shoot the hell outta it to loosen it up...or perhaps it'll never get better without a little gun work.

I've heard but never confirmed that Uberti's tend to be pretty much true replicas to the originals minus the modern metallurgy and finish, of course. The Pietta's, on the other hand, have taken a few liberties here and there in very subtle ways.

BTW, I called MidwayUSA a couple of weeks ago to inquire as to the importer of their Uberti made 1858 Remington. As of two weeks ago the answer was Taylor's and Company.

gunnut310 · March 29, 2009, 09:38 PM

i just ordered my first cimarron SSA I sure hope

i like it .It's in 357

AdmiralB · March 29, 2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

I hope I'm not disappointed.

Depends upon your expectations. When I got my first C&B, I was disappointed. But the last pistol I bought was a 6" Python, new in 1993.

Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison.

Italian C&Bs aren't (in my experience at least, which is hardly exhaustive) Swiss watches. What I have found, in general, is that they get the basics right, but the degree to which the details have been minded varies widely.

My first one (that I kept) was an 1858. The barrel stud (loading lever catch) fell out, no way it was ever in tightly. Cimarron had me send it to guy for warranty service (only about 90 minutes away), he turned it around in three days.

After seeing the fix (brass drift to tighten the dovetail), I thought, I coulda done that.

Since then, I've bought five more Cimarrons. Three of those also had loose studs (1860, Walker, Dragoon). I just fixed them myself, with the added guarantee of a little JB Weld in the slot.

Someone said something like "Italian revolvers make gunsmiths of us all". It's the truth.

After all, these things are $300 or less. What would a Python be today, if they were still made? $2000?

ClemBert · March 29, 2009, 10:04 PM

I'm sure I'll be disappointed...factor in that I recently bought two ROA's and that I'm an engineer by trade. In all fairness I did pay a lot more for the ROA's.

I'll keep my fingers crossed though. I do know the Italians are capable of making fine products such as sports cars and modern firearms. You'd think that with modern CNC equipment it would be a no brainer to at least have precision fitted parts.

AdmiralB · March 29, 2009, 10:17 PM

I think one thing the Italians have going for them is 'soul'. Same with cars, really.

ROAs are much better 'machines', but IMO they're soulless blocks of metal. An 1860 or similar just oozes...well, soul. And I find that the Ubertis are more attractive than Piettas in that regard.

Hawg · March 29, 2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

ROAs are much better 'machines', but IMO they're soulless blocks of metal

Amen to that. I have to disagree about Uberti being more attractive than Pietta tho.

CraigC · March 29, 2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

You'd think that with modern CNC equipment it would be a no brainer to at least have precision fitted parts.

Yeah but who would want to pay for it? I'd wager that shooters are rather accustomed to paying very little for their Italian cap `n ball pistols and wouldn't pay a little extra for a little extra attention to detail. Few are willing to spend $500-$600 for a 2nd or 3rd generation Colt Blackpowder gun, at least, as a shooter. If USFA built percussion pistols, how many here would spend $800-$1000 for an 1860? I would, but only if it was a cartridge conversion.

Quote:

ROAs are much better 'machines', but IMO they're soulless blocks of metal. An 1860 or similar just oozes...well, soul.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

Hawg · March 30, 2009, 03:41 AM

Quote:

Yeah but who would want to pay for it? I'd wager that shooters are rather accustomed to paying very little for their Italian cap `n ball pistols and wouldn't pay a little extra for a little extra attention to detail. Few are willing to spend $500-$600 for a 2nd or 3rd generation Colt Blackpowder gun, at least, as a shooter. If USFA built percussion pistols, how many here would spend $800-$1000 for an 1860? I would, but only if it was a cartridge conversion.

If money was no object I'd buy second gen Colts but not third. I MIGHT would buy a USFA but unfortunately at this time in my life money is an object. If I was stuck buying 800-1000 dollar guns these days I wouldn't be doing any shooting.

CraigC · March 30, 2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

If money was no object I'd buy second gen Colts but not third

Ya mean you wouldn't buy a glorified Uberti at three times the price?

Hawg · March 30, 2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Ya mean you wouldn't buy a glorified Uberti at three times the price?

Ummmmm....................NO

madcratebuilder · March 30, 2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

If money was no object I'd buy second gen Colts but not third.

Not to argue with you Hawg, but what's your reason for that?
I have three 2nd gens and six 3rd gens, the fit and finish on both generations is superb. I only see two differences, The bluing on all the 3rd gen is black, like older S&W's and on 'most' of the 2nd gens it's blue like a typical Uberti. If anything the 2nd gens are closer to Uberti's in appearance.
The 3rd gens have that gawd awful script on the back strap, it looks better with gold inlay, but I still don't care for it.
I think the 3rd gens may have a slight edge on finish of interior parts, but both are well made. Noticeably better than the Italians.
It seems that both gens well letter from Colt now and both seem to have the same value, with exceptions.

Hawg · March 30, 2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

It seems that both gens well letter from Colt now and both seem to have the same value, with exceptions.

Last I heard they wouldn't letter from Colt. Colt put out a disclaimer saying they didn't build them and wouldn't warranty them and I've heard several people say they tried to get them lettered and Colt won't letter them. Colt only licensed the 3rd gens and had no part in the building. Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens.

No argument from me if you like them. You like ROA's too and I wouldn't soil my hands on one but differences are what makes the world go round. It'd be a mighty dull place if we all thought exactly alike.

Indian Outlaw · March 30, 2009, 10:11 AM

Gonna visit Taylor's showroom this Friday, though I've heard they are still waiting on a Uberti shipment. I've got a hankerin' for a Uberti Remington Navy. I'll get a Cimarron only if I can get an equivalent price. I'll call Buffalo Arms.

madcratebuilder · March 30, 2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Last I heard they wouldn't letter from Colt. Colt put out a disclaimer saying they didn't build them and wouldn't warranty them and I've heard several people say they tried to get them lettered and Colt won't letter them. Colt only licensed the 3rd gens and had no part in the building. Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens.

I was under that impression also until recently. I have seen photo's of letters for 3rd gens, they could be faked, but why?

Lou Imperato was behind the building of both 2nd and 3rd gens. The only involvement that Colt had with 2nd gens was the 'finished' revolver was sent to Colt, and then shipped from Colts warehouse, that's why it letters, shipping record.
The same craftsman, in many cases, built both 2nd and 3rd gen revolvers.

Quote:

Colt at least did the final fitting and finish on the 2nd gens.

No work was preformed at Colt facilities or by Colt employee's. The final inspection was done by Colt emploee's at Lou Imperato's facility.

Fingers McGee · March 30, 2009, 10:59 AM

Quote Madcratebuilder

Quote:

No work was preformed at Colt facilities or by Colt employee's. The final inspection was done by Colt emploee's at Lou Imperato's facility.

Au Contraire - Early C series 2nd Gens were fit and finished in Hartford by Colt employees from parts obtained from Val Forgett (1971-1973). Starting in 1974, C series and F series 2nd Gens were assembled in NJ by Iver Johnson; but the case hardening of parts was still being accomplished by Colt in Connecticut.

"Regardless of 'C' or 'F' series manufacturing origin, Colt's performed on site final inspection and shipped all Colt Second Generation Percussion Revolvers. Additionally, they managed the sales, marketing, and manufacturing processes and accepted the product liability for these revolvers."

(Percussion Colt Revolvers - The Second Generation; Dennis Russell; 2007)

March 13, 2009, 03:56 PM	#1
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Uberti: Difference between Cimarron vs Taylor's Is there a difference between a Cimarron, Taylor's or other importer when it comes to Uberti manufactured firearms? Specifically, if I'm looking at a Colt or Remington replica BP revolver is there a difference in quality between the importers? The importation marks may be different but it seems hard to believe that Uberti would make a model for Cimarron and a different one for Taylor's. I've read some threads where some will claim that Cimarron only takes the best-of-the-best from Uberti. I assume it is implied that Taylor's and other would take the less than best-of-the-best. Any verifiable truth to this....or just internet rumor? I mean, am I to believe there is some QA guy at the Uberti factory putting these BP revolvers into different bins?

March 13, 2009, 11:16 PM	#3
Fingers McGee Senior Member Join Date: March 19, 2008 Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks Posts: 2,113	What Mykeal said. FM __________________ Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce

March 13, 2009, 06:53 PM	#2
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	You will never get 'verification' or refutation that one importer takes anything he gets and another 'cherry picks' the best, so you're just going to have to decide for yourself whether it's true. Cimarron's guns have a reputation for high quality. There are few complaints about the guns they sell in the forums. They claim that they inspect all of them and reject those they don't like. I don't know for a fact if that's true or just a marketing claim. I do have one gun purchased new from Taylor's and one purchased used that was imported by Cimarron. I can't tell which is which without looking at the box or reading the inscription on the Cimarron gun. Both are fine guns.

March 14, 2009, 11:56 AM	#4
Hafoc Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Posts: 552	Think what it would take for an importer to cherry-pick the revolvers. Somebody would have to be in the Uberti factory, function-testing individual revolvers as they came off the assembly line. They're all going to have to function, for safety and liability reasons, so a simple go-no go check wouldn't do it; it would have to be a very detailed inspection by a revolver crank who knew what to look for. You'd have to do this unfinished, since one area where different importers DO differ is in the markings and the finishes they offer. So having assembled the revolver and tested it, you partially disassemble it, send it back for finishing, reassemble while putting on whatever special details (brass vs. steel trigger guard or grip frame, special grips, etc) the supplier might want, and only then pack it up and ship it out. Far more likely the Joe Bagadonutz Old West Emporium, Inc., calls Uberti and says "We want a thousand single actions, steel grip frames, old style ejectors, black rubber grips with our logo on them, coil hand springs, and a top-of-the-line hand fitting by your best gunsmith on each one." Now compared to actual cherry-picking it's downright easy. THAT I believe they will do.

March 14, 2009, 12:05 PM	#5
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Texas Jack's is an Uberti dealer. I noticed their online catalog has "Texas Jack's Percussion by A. Uberti" and "Cimaron Pecussion". Uberti - 1858 Remington Army $277.95 Cimarron - 1858 Remington Army $333.41 Both of those products have the same catalog number CA107. So I called Texas Jack's up to ask them what the difference was. I was told they are exactly the same gun except the Cimarron one is marked "Cimarron" while the other cheaper one is just marked "Uberti". So I asked, if they are exactly the same why would you buy a Cimarron imported firearm. His response...if you want it to say Cimarron you pay the extra money otherwise the guns are exactly the same in quality and appearance. At this point I could care less if it says Cimarron or not if the firearms are otherwise exactly the same in quality and appearance. Oddly, I would have expected the cheaper one to have someone's importation mark on it.

March 14, 2009, 05:02 PM	#6
Indian Outlaw Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2008 Location: Behind a computer Posts: 100	I won't be buying any more new Cimarrons.

March 14, 2009, 05:09 PM	#7
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I`ve got Pietta`s and Uberti`s with every name out there selling them stamped on the barrels ....Even Cabelas on one of my Piettas ....I doubt very seriously if any of there stores are flying their people to Italy to inspect the guns that will be stamped with their names ...they have all been a crap shoot for me .......I `ve never had to look very hard to find something wrong with all of them .

March 14, 2009, 11:28 PM	#8
CraigC Junior member Join Date: November 28, 2001 Location: West Tennessee Posts: 4,300	According to my correspondences with Cimarron, there IS someone at the Uberti plant that handles the extra QC on their guns and they are supposed to be inspected again in Fredericksburg before they are shipped to dealers. None of the other importers do that. Personally, I'll pay a little extra, particularly since customer service is handled out of Texas. I had a problem with my 1860 Richards Type II and they sent me a new sixgun. Cimarron's lettering is also better than most.

March 28, 2009, 11:07 PM	#9
AdmiralB Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 88	Texas Jack's is Cimarron, it's their retail business. As a result, when you buy from TJ's, you're paying 'retail'. Buffalo Arms is a Cimarron dealer, and they typically sell Cimarron for about the same prices as TJ's lists for 'Uberti'. And pretty much as cheap as, or cheaper than anyone else's Ubertis. I've bought six Ubertis from Midway. All were sufficiently flawed that I sent them back - three of them were nonfunctional. All six of my Cimarrons work fine. Two of them had issues, but they were minor and quickly corrected via warranty. I've concluded that QC on any Italian C&B just plain sucks. Some are good, it seems many aren't. Cimarron appears to pre-junk the stuff they get, so at this point they're the only ones I'll buy.

March 28, 2009, 11:24 PM	#10
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	I've got a Cimarron SAA and a Uberti imported by Stoeger. The finish is much better on the Cimarron and the period correct style of lettering on the barrel is much more pleasing than the big deep block lettering on the Stoeger. For a C&B the best bang for the buck is Pietta.

March 29, 2009, 11:45 AM	#11
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I went ahead and ordered a Cimarron imported Uberti through Buffalo Arms. It won't be here until later this week. I hope I'm not disappointed. My buddy bought the Cabela's Pietta on sale for $189.99 a couple of months ago. How can you go wrong with that price? Anyhow, I bought the Uberti just to be different from him. We'll see how the two compare. I do know his Pietta is very stiff on cylinder rotation. Maybe he just needs to shoot the hell outta it to loosen it up...or perhaps it'll never get better without a little gun work. I've heard but never confirmed that Uberti's tend to be pretty much true replicas to the originals minus the modern metallurgy and finish, of course. The Pietta's, on the other hand, have taken a few liberties here and there in very subtle ways. BTW, I called MidwayUSA a couple of weeks ago to inquire as to the importer of their Uberti made 1858 Remington. As of two weeks ago the answer was Taylor's and Company.

March 29, 2009, 09:38 PM	#12
gunnut310 Member Join Date: March 24, 2009 Location: southeast texas Posts: 61	i just ordered my first cimarron SSA I sure hope i like it .It's in 357

March 29, 2009, 10:04 PM	#14
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I'm sure I'll be disappointed...factor in that I recently bought two ROA's and that I'm an engineer by trade. In all fairness I did pay a lot more for the ROA's. I'll keep my fingers crossed though. I do know the Italians are capable of making fine products such as sports cars and modern firearms. You'd think that with modern CNC equipment it would be a no brainer to at least have precision fitted parts.

March 29, 2009, 10:17 PM	#15
AdmiralB Member Join Date: March 27, 2009 Posts: 88	I think one thing the Italians have going for them is 'soul'. Same with cars, really. ROAs are much better 'machines', but IMO they're soulless blocks of metal. An 1860 or similar just oozes...well, soul. And I find that the Ubertis are more attractive than Piettas in that regard.

March 30, 2009, 10:11 AM	#23
Indian Outlaw Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2008 Location: Behind a computer Posts: 100	Gonna visit Taylor's showroom this Friday, though I've heard they are still waiting on a Uberti shipment. I've got a hankerin' for a Uberti Remington Navy. I'll get a Cimarron only if I can get an equivalent price. I'll call Buffalo Arms.