1850 3rd model Dragoon

TemboTusk · October 23, 2013, 12:56 AM

Hi All

Just wanted to show off my recent purchase and ask a few questions. I bought a new/old stock ASM 3rd Model Dragoon a few weeks ago and have just finished putting it under the knife. I converted it to shoot 45 Colt with a Kirst Konverter cylinder. I’m hoping to shoot it this weekend for the first time.

Couple of question … How would one go about weakening the mainspring? The mainspring for the hammer is of course set up for percussion caps and therefore very stout. I want the hammer to pull back easier.

Also I am looking for a modern holster for my Dragoon. Which modern revolver would be the closest fit? In other words, I’m hoping someone might know which model modern revolver I could use as a comparison to a Dragoon when it comes to finding a holster. I’m not looking for a molded holster, just something that will fit the Dragoon when I go hiking or quad biking.

Thanks - Jerry

.

Doc Hoy · October 23, 2013, 06:08 AM

I believe that some folks have softened up that spring by filing metal from the sides of it.

My thought is that the metal should come off of the entire length of the spring so as not to create a weak spot.

I want to emphasize I have never done this myself so perhaps someone with real time experience will validate the process.

spitpatch · October 23, 2013, 11:07 AM

For a holster I would go with Idaho Mike. If not gun broker or e-bay. Nice gun and photo. I am jealous of the photos you guys post. I have one heck of a time posting pics.

salvadore · October 23, 2013, 11:23 AM

Cut a piece of leather to fit inside the grip frame, punch/cut a hole so the Mainspring screw will fit through the leather, then place the leather between the hammer spring and grip frame and tighten screw. I do this with my SAAs to lighten the spring tension.

TemboTusk · October 23, 2013, 05:58 PM

Doc and Salvador, thanks for the tips on the hammer spring; Interesting suggestion of putting in a piece of leather. I like that it is a reversible fix as well. I'll try it.

Spitpatch, I will look into Idaho Mike's holsters, but what I am hoping to find is which modern revolver most closely matches a Dragoon. Other than a western cowboy holster, nobody makes a Dragoon specific holster, hence the search for an alternative revolver.

A common issue with taking photos indoors is having the correct "White Balance" setting. I use a Nikon camera with manual settings and adjust the white balance to match the lights I use to illuminate my subject.
Many cameras have an Auto White Balance setting which does a good job most times. When setting up your lighting, make sure you don't have a mixture of lights. For example: don't mix fluorescent and incandescent lights. It will confuse the auto settings of the camera. A tripod will also help in getting the perfect picture.

Smokin'Joe · October 23, 2013, 06:14 PM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484992

TemboTusk · October 24, 2013, 08:39 AM

Thanks Joe. Sounds like a little bit goes a long way on this procedure.

Bill Akins · October 28, 2013, 09:13 PM

I once had an 1851 that I did the same thing to that Smokin Joe did. Worked perfect. One caution though, don't grind too much off. Just do a little on each side, otherwise you can get the spring too weak and it won't pop the caps. I was very careful to only do a little grinding on each side so that wouldn't happen. I ground a little on each side, then installed it and popped a few caps, then did a little more until I got it where I wanted it, then filed and sanded the edges smooth and cold blued it. Exactly like Smokin Joe did. If you grind too much, obviously the spring is too weak and is worthless.

Could someone please explain that leather fix more? Thanks. That sounds even better since it is reversible and no chance of grinding off too much. I want to make sure I understand it completely. If I am reading that right, it sounds like the leather acts as a cushion between the frame and the spring. But I don't remember if my 1851 had a spring tensioning screw or not....it's been so long since I had that 1851. If memory serves me, my wooden grip was a one piece affair and the spring fit into a groove in the brass grip frame and didn't have a spring tensioning screw. But again, it's been so long I might not be remembering correctly. But if I AM remembering correctly, and if there was no spring tensioning screw, then the leather fix wouldn't work would it?

.

TemboTusk · October 29, 2013, 07:06 PM

Bill, I have not tried it yet, but I think the leather needs to be fashioned into a soft washer and put between the mainspring and the frame. The spring can then be "tensioned" to suit. I have loosened the screw holding the mainspring to test the theory and it does seem to weaken the hammer a bit. Now to find some leather and try it for real!

Yes, the 1851 does have a screw that holds the mainspring to the frame. You may be thinking of the Walker; it has a hook that holds the spring in place.

Bill Akins · October 30, 2013, 04:31 AM

Very possible I was thinking about and had my old Walker in mind Tembo. Been a long time since I had that 1851 (and was inside it) and no doubt I had forgotten. Now after thinking about it, I should have realized my old 1851's hammer spring attaches with a screw just like my 1860's do, both revolvers being so similar and cylinders interchanging and all.

That whole leather thing has me wondering though. As the leather dries out and gets hard, won't it lose its cushioning effect? As the leather became dried and compressed over time, it seems to me it might cause the spring to have differing tension as the leather dried out, and ultimately cause the spring to get too loose/weak. Perhaps a plastic shim might work to retain its elasticity better? Just an observation, never tried a cushioning shim under the hammer spring like that.

.

TemboTusk · October 30, 2013, 09:32 AM

Bill, funny you mention a plastic material instead of leather. Last night I inserted a rubber faucet valve washer as I did not have any leather to test.

The washer lifted the mainspring away from the frame thereby using less tension. The hammer was easier to pull back.

I may try a brass washer and test to see if the release of tension is due to the pliability of the rubber/leather washer or just the fact that the spring is lifted and not fully arched against the frame. Maybe a different thickness of washer may produce more or less tension?

October 23, 2013, 12:56 AM	#1
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	1850 3rd model Dragoon Hi All Just wanted to show off my recent purchase and ask a few questions. I bought a new/old stock ASM 3rd Model Dragoon a few weeks ago and have just finished putting it under the knife. I converted it to shoot 45 Colt with a Kirst Konverter cylinder. I’m hoping to shoot it this weekend for the first time. Couple of question … How would one go about weakening the mainspring? The mainspring for the hammer is of course set up for percussion caps and therefore very stout. I want the hammer to pull back easier. Also I am looking for a modern holster for my Dragoon. Which modern revolver would be the closest fit? In other words, I’m hoping someone might know which model modern revolver I could use as a comparison to a Dragoon when it comes to finding a holster. I’m not looking for a molded holster, just something that will fit the Dragoon when I go hiking or quad biking. Thanks - Jerry .

October 23, 2013, 06:08 AM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I have never done this but.... I believe that some folks have softened up that spring by filing metal from the sides of it. My thought is that the metal should come off of the entire length of the spring so as not to create a weak spot. I want to emphasize I have never done this myself so perhaps someone with real time experience will validate the process. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

October 23, 2013, 11:07 AM	#3
spitpatch Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 171	Holster For a holster I would go with Idaho Mike. If not gun broker or e-bay. Nice gun and photo. I am jealous of the photos you guys post. I have one heck of a time posting pics.

October 23, 2013, 06:14 PM	#6
Smokin'Joe Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2010 Posts: 211	Take a look at this..... http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=484992

October 28, 2013, 09:13 PM	#8
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	I once had an 1851 that I did the same thing to that Smokin Joe did. Worked perfect. One caution though, don't grind too much off. Just do a little on each side, otherwise you can get the spring too weak and it won't pop the caps. I was very careful to only do a little grinding on each side so that wouldn't happen. I ground a little on each side, then installed it and popped a few caps, then did a little more until I got it where I wanted it, then filed and sanded the edges smooth and cold blued it. Exactly like Smokin Joe did. If you grind too much, obviously the spring is too weak and is worthless. Could someone please explain that leather fix more? Thanks. That sounds even better since it is reversible and no chance of grinding off too much. I want to make sure I understand it completely. If I am reading that right, it sounds like the leather acts as a cushion between the frame and the spring. But I don't remember if my 1851 had a spring tensioning screw or not....it's been so long since I had that 1851. If memory serves me, my wooden grip was a one piece affair and the spring fit into a groove in the brass grip frame and didn't have a spring tensioning screw. But again, it's been so long I might not be remembering correctly. But if I AM remembering correctly, and if there was no spring tensioning screw, then the leather fix wouldn't work would it? . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; October 28, 2013 at 09:25 PM.

October 23, 2013, 11:23 AM	#4
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Cut a piece of leather to fit inside the grip frame, punch/cut a hole so the Mainspring screw will fit through the leather, then place the leather between the hammer spring and grip frame and tighten screw. I do this with my SAAs to lighten the spring tension.

October 23, 2013, 05:58 PM	#5
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	Doc and Salvador, thanks for the tips on the hammer spring; Interesting suggestion of putting in a piece of leather. I like that it is a reversible fix as well. I'll try it. Spitpatch, I will look into Idaho Mike's holsters, but what I am hoping to find is which modern revolver most closely matches a Dragoon. Other than a western cowboy holster, nobody makes a Dragoon specific holster, hence the search for an alternative revolver. A common issue with taking photos indoors is having the correct "White Balance" setting. I use a Nikon camera with manual settings and adjust the white balance to match the lights I use to illuminate my subject. Many cameras have an Auto White Balance setting which does a good job most times. When setting up your lighting, make sure you don't have a mixture of lights. For example: don't mix fluorescent and incandescent lights. It will confuse the auto settings of the camera. A tripod will also help in getting the perfect picture.

October 24, 2013, 08:39 AM	#7
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	Thanks Joe. Sounds like a little bit goes a long way on this procedure.

October 29, 2013, 07:06 PM	#9
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	Bill, I have not tried it yet, but I think the leather needs to be fashioned into a soft washer and put between the mainspring and the frame. The spring can then be "tensioned" to suit. I have loosened the screw holding the mainspring to test the theory and it does seem to weaken the hammer a bit. Now to find some leather and try it for real! Yes, the 1851 does have a screw that holds the mainspring to the frame. You may be thinking of the Walker; it has a hook that holds the spring in place.

October 30, 2013, 04:31 AM	#10
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Very possible I was thinking about and had my old Walker in mind Tembo. Been a long time since I had that 1851 (and was inside it) and no doubt I had forgotten. Now after thinking about it, I should have realized my old 1851's hammer spring attaches with a screw just like my 1860's do, both revolvers being so similar and cylinders interchanging and all. That whole leather thing has me wondering though. As the leather dries out and gets hard, won't it lose its cushioning effect? As the leather became dried and compressed over time, it seems to me it might cause the spring to have differing tension as the leather dried out, and ultimately cause the spring to get too loose/weak. Perhaps a plastic shim might work to retain its elasticity better? Just an observation, never tried a cushioning shim under the hammer spring like that. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target".

October 30, 2013, 09:32 AM	#11
TemboTusk Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2012 Location: Anaheim, CA Posts: 139	Bill, funny you mention a plastic material instead of leather. Last night I inserted a rubber faucet valve washer as I did not have any leather to test. The washer lifted the mainspring away from the frame thereby using less tension. The hammer was easier to pull back. I may try a brass washer and test to see if the release of tension is due to the pliability of the rubber/leather washer or just the fact that the spring is lifted and not fully arched against the frame. Maybe a different thickness of washer may produce more or less tension?

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