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Old October 22, 2017, 11:47 PM   #26
Metal god
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I like it , wish I new what SPR stood for

Not sure about the WOA barrels but if they are stress relieved then the medium contour should be perfect .

I love my Miculek Brake , follow up shots are soooo easy but the guys next to you will not like it a bit . I'm constantly blowing any light materials off the shooting benches on either side of me . It's got to a point I warn people and even wait to shoot ( if possible ) as to shoot when they are not or away from there bench completely . I started doing that after I was letting a buddy shoot my rifle and I was at the bench next to him . I was getting blast up my nose and everything .

As for triggers , ADCO modified RRA what is that ? I have the RRA NM trigger on 2 of my builds and they work fine but are very heavy pulls IMO . I get right around 5.5lbs on each . Is the one you posted modified to have a lighter pull ? I will say my Geissele high speed NM trigger makes the RRA trigger feel like mil-spec

I don't have any working knowledge of the rail you're getting but with some patients I found quite a nice 15" no name key-mod at the gun show for $45

If you're going with the big heavy PRS stock or similar I'd go with more magnification on the scope . It's not like this is really going to be a run and gun rifle with that stock and a 20" barrel . Now if you were to drop down to a 18" https://www.rainierarms.com/rainier-...l-lightweight/ and throw a Primary arms 1-8x24 with a lighter fixed stock . Now you have your self a truly multi use rifle . Out to 600 no problem but can still run and gun if bugging out of your sniper hide . just a thought

Either way it's looking good and pretty close to a build that's on my short list .
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Last edited by Metal god; October 23, 2017 at 05:29 AM. Reason: Added barrel link
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Old October 23, 2017, 04:58 AM   #27
Nathan
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SPR - Special Purpose Rifle

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
The SPR, used by Special Operations Forces of both the U.S. Army and U.S. Navy, is a heavily modified light designated marksman variation of the M16 line of infantry weapons, chambered for NATO standard 5.56×45mm ammunition. The SPR concept was originally proposed by Mark Westrom, currently president of ArmaLite, while working at Rock Island Arsenal in 2000.[1] The program was an outgrowth of the desire by both US Army and Navy special operations forces for a rifle with greater effective range than an M4 carbine but still shorter in length than a standard issue M16A2/A4.
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Old October 23, 2017, 05:16 AM   #28
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You are correct about weight....

Which is interesting.

I agree with many statements above... that hopefully your combination will be as accurate as you hope it to be.

That an spr is more like 18" and a dmr is in the 20"+ range, (conceptually)

Soooooo, if you want a 2-8x lighter weight less expensive 2nd focal plane scope, it might be best on an 18" to compliment the weight savings.

However, on a 20" barrel, its getting heavy already so why not go for a 2-10x Burris with the 1st focal plane reticle? Its a heavier rifle set up, but the optic compliments it in both shorter and longer range shots.

That being said, I think the 2-10x in an 18" is about the coolest mid range option with the ability to go short or long distances as far as magnification, velocity and weight are concerned. It just sounds like the best all around compromise to me.

You'll be good with whatever you decide on though, as long as it shoots good groups and you feel comfortable with it at varying ranges...

I wish you luck and hope all your parts come together in a way that suits you! Enjoy.
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Old October 23, 2017, 05:18 AM   #29
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175 for a handguard is a waste of money, do what you want but IMHO my Midwest Industries handguard on my 308 isn't any better than the Rousch handguards I have on most everything else.
And the PRS is great but heavy if you're going with a lighter barrel I'd prolly look more at a LuthAR stock.
And again it's your money but I'm not wasting mine on an adjustable gas block.
I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I really have an affinity for levang style linear compensators they're sooooo much easier on the ears.
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Old October 23, 2017, 07:57 AM   #30
Bartholomew Roberts
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Well, as bman suggested, I actually like the 16" barrel. It works out to 600m about as well as the 18" or 20". As far as balance goes, I like weight in the back end as it makes the rifle handle better IMO. I would rather have a heavy rifle than a poorly balanced one. Also, since my 5.56 suppressor is 20oz and adds 6" of length to the barrel, I can use a heavier stock (I'm using the Magpul UBR).

If you think a suppressor might be in your future, I'd definitely consider the shorter barrel as even 12oz is a lot when it is hanging on the end of a 20" lever. Most of this is personal preference though and it is hard to guess that.

I will say that I have an RRA NM trigger in one rifle (my "let's assemble all the cast off AR parts into a rifle" spare) and all my remaining ARs have the Geiselle SSA trigger. The RRA is a good value and the ADCO modification fixes the major way it fails; but I do prefer the SSA.
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Old October 23, 2017, 09:04 AM   #31
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magnification

Since we have brought up needing more magnification and Nikon's M-308 BDC 800 scope, let me toss this one out there. You guy's have asked for this optic for years and Nikon finally got around to getting into production this year. Nikon's new BLACK X1000 scope. It comes in different magnification option's and illuminated or not as well. What you guys really wanted was a MRAD/MOA turrets to go with the corresponding reticle. Now you have it.
I have been using one on my CMMG .308 for a few months and just put it on a Bergara 6.5 CM rifle. Works great and best off all the non-illuminated version is under $500. Nikon also has new BLACK-Series Mounts for it, both AR and Bolt gun styles. If you want a full size optic this scope definitely deserves a look.

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Old October 23, 2017, 10:50 AM   #32
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Actually, the optic I really want is a lightweight...~18oz 30mm 3-12x42 with short turrets and a Horus reticle at 12x!
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Old October 23, 2017, 10:56 AM   #33
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Nathan,

I only measure 100 yard targets and that's just when testing loads. With a Hornady 53 grain Vmax I can get 5/8" groups fairly often. Always under an inch.

I have not found the sweet spot with the 77 ELD-M yet, but still just a hair under an inch.

My real shooting as mentioned, is a 5" plate at 500 meters (547 yards), it's either hit or miss and naturally wind plays in to that a lot, so that 100 yard precision becomes less a factor.

Another note since stocks have become a point in this thread. How well does a standard A2 stock fit you? If it's good, then you can save a pile of weight and cash by going that route over the PRS.
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Old October 23, 2017, 12:11 PM   #34
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It seems to me like you have done a pretty good job balancing the components you have selected. Whether it will, in fact, perform as expected is something that will just have to wait assembly and test firing.
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Old October 23, 2017, 12:15 PM   #35
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...

Combination's and possibilities are endless. I do like the PRS stock if I'm not hauling it anywhere. Nice thing about AR's you can make all sorts of changes to get what you need and as I like to do, swap upper's onto a solid lower. If things don't go as expected try not to make huge changes all at once.
Good luck and I look forward to hearing about how it all comes together for you.
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Old October 23, 2017, 01:01 PM   #36
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Thanks and now that I know what SPR means I'd have to say by definition what you are building is not an SPR . I'd consider it more like a sniper/precession type set up with the fully adjustable stock and 20" barrel . I'd think 18" barrel with rifle length gas https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/sho...7-8-twist.html and nice collapsible stock like a Magpul ACS/L or STR is more true to the definition . I'd then put a 1-6 or 1-8x24 on it

I like your build but if it were mine it would be designed to shoot 300+ yards off a bench or prone for little tiny groups with no intensions of it being something I carry around .
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Old October 23, 2017, 02:26 PM   #37
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Quote:
Combination's and possibilities are endless.
That's why"black rifle disease" is a thing.
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Old October 24, 2017, 06:45 AM   #38
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Of the parts mentioned, I seriously doubt the $90 gas block, $175 hand guard, or $280 stock are going to give you the advantage to cost return.
Barrel, BCG, fire control--those are the important parts. The rest is just holding the good stuff together and providing a handle.
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Old October 27, 2017, 04:42 AM   #39
Nathan
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Well, I ended up with:

Upper: Spikes
Lower: Spikes
LPK: Armalite
Trigger: ADCO modified RRA
Pistol Grip: Ergo Tactical Deluxe Grip
BCG: BCM
Barrel: WOA 18" SPR
Forearm: ALG Defense V1 15"
Adj Gas Block: Superlative Arms Adjustable Bleed-Off Clamp On Gas Block
Muzzle Device: Miculek Brake
Stock: Magpul PRS
Mount: ADM
Optic: Nikon Monarch 3 2-8x

Parts are on order. Gas Block backordered. Any idea about a suitable replacement?
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Old October 27, 2017, 07:34 AM   #40
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Avoid going cheap on the trigger unit. Skip the RRA; get a Giesele precision unit, like the SSA-E.

Quote:
If you want precision at 600 yds with a gas gun I’d go with a heavier barrel contour, more scope, and build in .308 or Creedmoor. It’s going to cost you a little more, but 600yds is further than most people think.
Yeah, I'd agree on a heavier 20" match tube in .308, along with a high quality optic (e.g., NightForce) and high quality rings & mounts (e.g., LT among others). Don't go cheap on those either. Otherwise the hard-core precision guys will laugh at you.

All the Match Load data in .308 has been worked out and is well-known and published. Although I prefer reloading for my precision rifles (.308 & .223), there's enough variety in bullet-weights in very high-quality factory Match ammo that you can buy a few boxes to get you started with an initial zero. After that, you can spend time at your reloading bench perfecting a 'pet' 600yd load. That's the fun part and also less expensive for all the shooting you'll need to do get good at the PR game.

Just pick the optimum bullet-weight for a max range of 600yds, then get a base zero established at 100yds. Then keep shooting further out in hundred yard increments until you've established your 'dope' with that load in dial-ups or hold-overs out to 600yds.

Last edited by agtman; October 27, 2017 at 07:55 AM.
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Old October 27, 2017, 12:06 PM   #41
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Quote:
Since we have brought up needing more magnification and Nikon's M-308 BDC 800 scope, let me toss this one out there. You guy's have asked for this optic for years and Nikon finally got around to getting into production this year. Nikon's new BLACK X1000 scope. It comes in different magnification option's and illuminated or not as well. What you guys really wanted was a MRAD/MOA turrets to go with the corresponding reticle. Now you have it.
I have been using one on my CMMG .308 for a few months and just put it on a Bergara 6.5 CM rifle. Works great and best off all the non-illuminated version is under $500. Nikon also has new BLACK-Series Mounts for it, both AR and Bolt gun styles. If you want a full size optic this scope definitely deserves a look.
I'll take a look. Does the 1000 come with enough elevation to get you out a 1000 yds without a 20 MOA mount?
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Old October 28, 2017, 09:26 AM   #42
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Depending on the model, the Black only goes to about 17-20. So you'll need the 20 MOA mount. LaRue LT745 is a nice mount at $210. And it's available in you can go 10 or 20 MOA. I used a 20 MOA for my Vortex Viper PST 6-24x on my 6.5 Creed gasser.
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Old October 28, 2017, 05:49 PM   #43
Nathan
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With a 25-600 yd rifle, I would not use an angled mount, but that could be just me.

I can see going to something like a 2-12x scope...surely Vortex has some thing!!
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Old October 29, 2017, 09:08 PM   #44
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OK, OK....I decided that the Geissele High Speed trigger was the way to go. I stepped up to that....ouch! $200! That hurt!

Now, I need the teams help again....I ordered the 1:7 WOA SPR barrel. I meant to order the 1:8.

Do I return and replace with the same in 1:8? Get the 20" mid weight 1:8? Or maybe go to the 3 gun barrel at a few oz less weight. I'm like 99% thinking 3 gun or the 1:8 20"....as you can see, this is confusing, but I'm concerned the trigger is a bit of a game changer moving it closer to a benchrest AR than a field AR. Trouble with the 20", is I will be tempted to with a high end optic.....and then this whole thing should be a 6.5 Creedmor! Ahhh!

I'm having fun. Cooler thoughts should prevail and I buy the 3 gun barrel.
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