New to the holy black- what do I need?

[jmstr]

Hello All,

I am new to the black powder world, but have acquired some fun stuff to start with.

Yet, other than loading supplies [powder, wadding, patches, ball, primers], I don't know much.

For my revolvers, I am not overly worried [Pietta 1858 NMA and Ruger OA].

However, I just picked up a TC Patriot .45 pistol, and will take home a Browning Mountain Rifle in .50 soon.

I have shot in .451, .457 and .490 lead round ball. I have my Pietta, my ROA and BMR covered.

I need to get .440/1 [or .445?] for the Patriot Pistol.

I have FFFG powder. I need FFG powder. I have both #10 and #11 percussion caps. [and a can of FFFFg Powder for some reason- but no flintlock, so doubt that will get used]. I understand load sizes, and the advantage of using corn meal/CoW as filler to balance powder charges, as well as bore butter to 'cap' revolver cylinders to avoid chain firing.



I have some powder flasks, and a percussion cap 'snail' loader/capper.

What I don't know about is everything else that is recommended.

Is there a simple list of useful/required parts/tools I should have?

Or the name of a really good introduction into the tools of loading blackpowder- both muzzleloaders and cap revolvers.

Thank you

[rodwhaincamo]

By wadding do you mean felt wads? If so you don’t need lube over the ball. Over ball lube typical gets blown away within a few shots and just gets all over everything including your hand. Some people swear by it though.

Do you have a set of gunsmith’s screwdrivers?

I’m not familiar with the Patriot or the rifle. If it has a wedge you’ll want a brass punch and mallet (brass/plastic/wood). And the pistol should be much like the rifle and need an undersized ball due to the patch. It would take a .440” or .445” ball I’d guess.

A loading stand for the revolvers is a wonderful thing to have!

For cleaning and swabbing I really like a bore mop. Wonderful thing to have!

Your Remington’s cylinder will bind up within a few cylinders worth of shooting. Oil the base pin (I use Ballistol) and it will function nicely.

Ballistol is a wonderful lube for this application. It will mix with water but allow it to evaporate leaving behind just the oil. Some mix it with water and use it as a patch lube called Moose Milk. It also works on wood and leather.

Why do you feel you need 2F powder? 3F will work just fine in your .50 cal. Some use it all the way up to 12 ga. Sometimes guns will shoot better with 2F anyway though. I’d see what can be achieved with what you have before buying it though.

4F can be used in your pistols with a reduced charge. During the Civil War the Hazard’s Pistol Powder paper cartridges used 4F with a conical and was found to be as energetic as Swiss according to the fellow who researched it. And a curator for a museum has taken apart BP cartridges to display and found many of those to contain 4F and even finer powders. Lyman’s 1st edition BP handbook lists load data for 4F in an 1860 Army .44 cal. However it goes against the manufacturer’s warnings and I would not advise anyone to do so. Although the Ruger owner’s manual certainly says it can be loaded full with 4F and be safe. The few people I’ve read who have done so say the accuracy isn’t as good as with 3F.

You will want a nipple pick also.

While at the range I will swab my bore with a wet patch (both sides) followed by a patch with rubbing alcohol (both sides) to help evaporate the moisture. Give it a minute to work before loading again. I carry small bottles of these in my shooting bag.

A ball puller or CO2 remover may be needed one day. Sometimes removing the nipple and dribbling in some powder is enough to remove a stuck ball.

[Pahoo]

jmstr

You are off to a good start and attitude. Right off, I'd suggest getting a copy of Sam Fadalas books or equal. …..
You have a Patriot and Browning Mountain rifle. Both are collectable, no longer made and parts are somewhat hard to find. They are some of the best that I have in my collection and you have a good eye. There is a reason that Browning is so heavy...…

What I suggest;
1) Stick with the FFF-G for both and put the FFFF-G aside for now.

2) For now, use .440 for the patriot as well as some .015 patches.

3) Buy or make a loading stand for the Patriot or load with the grip resting on you lap.

4) That browning is doubled keyed wedged and you may want to pin the slot, so you don't lose a wedge. It happens ….

I too load Ballistol and solvents for cleaning.

Enjoy and;
Be Safe !!!

[Old Stony]

I would be careful using a loading stand with a Patriot pistol. They are noted as having problems with stocks cracking in the rear areas, and pounding on the front of the barrel with the butt resting on a stand can get the problem started. I have seen numerous Patriots with cracked stocks, and even repaired some for friends over the years.

[Pahoo]

I would be careful using a loading stand with a Patriot pistol.

Good point and the two stands that I use, are padded. I have never had a single-shot pistol, crack on me but have repaired a couple. That is why I mostly work off my lap. As you progress in this adventure, you will naturally develop you own technique. Make sure you load the cap on last. . ….

Also suggest you get a spare nipple for the Patriot. …..

Be Safe !!!

[arcticap]

Only regarding .45 caliber in general and not the Patriot, I would recommend using the .440 and then buying 2 thicknesses of patches, .015 1st and .010 2nd.
Accuracy notwithstanding, it's simply easier to load the .440 ball without encountering a hard start.
I prefer to use a mallet with a starter, but most don't, and the smaller ball will be easier to start.
A .440 ball and a .15 patch would be the most common combination to load in most .45's.
If that's too tight, which it shouldn't be, then go with the .440 and .010 patch.
If you go with .445 balls, then try a .010 patch.
The pillow ticking patches [with a blue stripe] are usually .018 in thickness, and if you really want a tight load, then the .440 ball and .018 patch will be plenty tight.
I hope that you end up trying both size balls and all of the different patch combinations because why not experiment?
Many people who shoot for pure accuracy often demand the absolute tightest ball & patch combination.
But that can contribute to the Patriot's stock abuse.
Pressed felt wool wads can also be loaded under the ball to experiment with accuracy.
I like the dry lubed ones to keep lube away from the powder.
And wads can make each load more expensive and are often better used when experimenting with heavier loads and/or with conicals.
But to use them or not, or to use dry or wet lubed wads, is a personal choice and all part of the game.
The object of patches and wads are to help fill the rifling grooves and to keep the hot gases from blowing by the patch.
Try Wonder Lube or Bore Butter on the patches if buying them dry.
The lubed patches can help serve to push down any fouling that accumulates in the rifling grooves with each ram during loading.
Some barrels like to be swabbed more often than others, just as some owners do or don't care to.
Some people swab after every shot, others wait 5-10 shots, and some wait 20-30 shots or more.
It depends on the type of powder, your results and expectations.
Enjoy your new guns, they sound to be really great models.

[jmstr]

Thank you all!

This is a bunch of good info. I don't know when I'll get out to try them, but I plan on slowly gathering all necessary supplies, and pinning the keys on the rifle.

I have been doing more acquiring in the past 4 years than actual shooting. And I've done more gunsmithing to fine-tune things than shooting. I can do gunsmithing at 10pm, but the ranges close at 7, and I've just been too busy.

These look like fun.

I just brought the Browning Mountain Rifle home [and a Remington V3, as I like new stuff too] today.

The first thing I had to do was remove the nipple and clean it out. I also pulled out the side screw on the 'snail', to be sure there was no residue/build up at the end of the barrel that would affect air/powder/spark flow.


As to tools, I have a considerable number of firearm tools, including a full Brownells' European thin-blade screwtip set.

I got those for work on my SxS's.

They will come in handy!

[Pahoo]

I also pulled out the side screw on the 'snail', to be sure there was no residue/build up at the end of the barrel that would affect air/powder/spark flow.

You are fortunate to get away with that. I have learned the hard way not to take this cleanout screws for granted, especially on used sidelocks. In fact, I wish they were not there at all. …..

Sounds like you have a good start on this great adventure and I will continue to wish you well. …..

Be Safe !!!

[T. O'Heir]

Go buy a copy of Lyman's BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. Sam Fadala wrote it. Answers questions you don't know you have. Starting with BP is loaded in grains by volume not mass like smokeless powder.

[ThomasT]

+1 on the Sam Fadala books. They are the best you can get. And don't forget to pick up a copy of the Lyman BP manual while you are at it.

And side screws? yes they can be a problem. Several years ago I picked up an almost unfired Cabelas Hawken in 54 caliber and while the bore was clean the clean out screw was froze in place. I ended up drilling it out and retreading to a 6/32 set screw in stainless steel. This was the third or fourth one I have drilled and tapped.

After you shoot and are cleaning your gun always remove that clean out screw. Always coat the screw and the threads for the nipple and clean out screw with grease. I use hi-temp wheel bearing grease. I suspect about any grease would work. Just be sure to coat it with something.

[HiBC]

I'm not a cap and ball revolver shooter.At least,not yet.

I don't see the need for corn meal or cream of wheat. Keep it simple.Fill all the space with BP. You do not want airspace.
Tamp you patched ball firmly on top of your powder charge.

[Pahoo]

Tamp you patched ball firmly on top of your powder charge

For all except you ROA, use your wads for this guy. ….

Be Safe !!!

[4V50 Gary]

The Browning Mountain rifle has a recessed chamber. That is, the chamber that holds the powder charge is smaller than the bore. So, in cleaning it, you should flush out the barrel completely and just don't force wet patches down the bore. Eventually you'll plug that chamber and then it won't fire.

[jmstr]

Thanks Everyone!


My wife started to get excited when i mentioned that I might get some cream of wheat. She keeps talking to me about eating healthier food than bacon and eggs.

Her face fell when I mentioned I was feeding it to the black powder firearms.

Maybe I won't.

[4V50 Gary]

I'd shop the supermarket bargain rack for marked down stuff that is close to expiration. Your smokepoles can't taste the difference.