1911 Slide release problem- PLEASE help

hbk80rice · August 5, 2015, 11:56 PM

I have a Norinco 1911a1 and I have an issue with the slide release. When I lock the slide back or when the gun locks back on an empty mag it does the same thing. The slide release will not drop when I pull the slide back. If I put a new full mag in or if there is no mag in the gun and I try to drop the slide by pulling it back, the slide release stays up and will not function like it should. What causes this and more importantly how can I fix this problem so I can get this gun functioning perfectly.

Thank you very much for all of the help!!!

DaleA · August 6, 2015, 12:07 AM

Awww I hate to ask the obvious but there isn't a build up of crude around the slide release is there? I won't take it personally if you say 'bleep no, I know how to clean my gun!!!' but it's kind of a question that has to be asked.

FWIW I've looked at Norinco stuff (1911 and M14 semi-auto clones) and they always looked pretty good to me.

hbk80rice · August 6, 2015, 02:13 AM

I WISH!!!! Great minds think alike bc that was my very first thought so I broke it down and did a major cleaning by hand and also dropped every individual part into the ultrasonic and it still sticks in the "up" position.

No I wouldn't dare yell at someone trying to help me. No ego here, just looking for answers and I thank you for your thought and help.

Got any other ideas?

Theohazard · August 6, 2015, 02:58 AM

I once installed a Wilson Combat Shok-Buff buffer on my 1911, that's the one that fits on the recoil spring guide rod. Unfortunately, the buffer limited the reward movement of the slide just enough that it caused the exact same problem that you're having. So I removed it and my gun went back to working just fine.

wedge259 · August 6, 2015, 04:23 AM

I had a Part LTC Commander that did the exact same thing. I always prefer to use the slide stop to release the slide rather than pulling it back, but I know it would probably bother some people. Never figured out why it did that, it was a jam o matic so I didn't keep it long.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 6, 2015, 10:03 AM

When the slide is pulled back from slide lock, it should travel enough farther back that the forward part of the notch in the slide overrides the slide stop and forces it down. It's not in any way spring loaded, so it won't drop of its own accord. The usual culprit when you can't slingshot is a shock buffer, which reduces the rearward travel by the thickness of the buffer.

An exception is Les Baer Commander-size pistols. He makes them so they can't be slingshotted. The reason is that he uses the same frame as his Government size pistols, and won't do the extra 1/10-inch of machining needed to make a Commander work like a Commander.

There should not be a problem with a Norinco. Are you running a shock buffer?

imashooter · August 6, 2015, 10:53 AM

If an empty magazine is in the pistol with slide to rear, the slide stop should keep it to the rear whether you pull the slide back a little to release or you manipulate the s/s. That's by design and the Norinco is functioning properly. If you simultaneously pull and release the slide while manipulating the s/s, the slide will move forward.

Theohazard · August 6, 2015, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imashooter

If an empty magazine is in the pistol with slide to rear, the slide stop should keep it to the rear whether you pull the slide back a little to release or you manipulate the s/s. That's by design and the Norinco is functioning properly. If you simultaneously pull and release the slide while manipulating the s/s, the slide will move forward.

He's not taking about when there's an empty mag in the gun, he's referring to situations when the slide should go forward when pulled to the rear because there's a full mag or no mag in the gun (emphasis is mine):

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk80rice

If I put a new full mag in or if there is no mag in the gun and I try to drop the slide by pulling it back, the slide release stays up and will not function like it should.

KyJim · August 6, 2015, 01:30 PM

Quote:

An exception is Les Baer Commander-size pistols. He makes them so they can't be slingshotted.

Some can and some cannot, though Les really doesn't care. I have one that can be slingshotted.

Nakanokalronin · August 6, 2015, 01:51 PM

If it's clean, there could be a burr either on the frame or the slide stop. Has it functioned correctly before?

Quote:

An exception is Les Baer Commander-size pistols. He makes them so they can't be slingshotted.

Huh, never knew that about Les Baer. Seems silly to make sure it functions differently than it should.

polyphemus · August 6, 2015, 01:59 PM

OP,did you field strip your pistol and checked the slide stop for free play under the pawl,and the slide for full rearward travel before you posted?

hbk80rice · August 6, 2015, 05:32 PM

when I got the gun, it did have one of those buffers on the guide rod. Like some of you are talking about I'm sure that is what cause this problem to occur in the first place. It has since been removed, and the problem has not gone away. Is this something that will just have to be lived with or is this a problem that can be fixed? how?

ammo.crafter · August 6, 2015, 05:52 PM

As said previously have you noticed any "high spots" on either the slide and/or slide stop release?

Since this part is not spring-loaded and gravity is its only method of dropping to disengage.

With magazine removed a slight rearward pull on the slide should drop the release.

It appears to be hindered by a slight burr that can easily be removed.

Double check the release and the slide were it goes into.

Good luck.

polyphemus · August 6, 2015, 05:57 PM

No,it is not to be lived with.
If the slide travels freely then the slide stop should be replaced.
Your pistol seems to have been modified in the first place,you have to replace
whatever was installed that doesn't belong,strip it and carefully reassemble
paying attention to the slide action if you removed that rubber washer then
it should work,maybe someone installed a funky slide stop and that's why it's
still acting up in any event it doesn't sound like something that can't be fixed
with a little attention.

Theohazard · August 6, 2015, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk80rice

Is this something that will just have to be lived with or is this a problem that can be fixed? how?

Before you can fix it, you need to diagnose what the exact cause of the problem is. Either the slide is being prevented from going back far enough to allow the slide stop to drop, or the slide stop is hung up on something.

Try locking your slide to the rear with no mag in place. Now pull the slide all the way to the rear. Is there any noticable movement? Is the slide still contacting the slide stop?

gc70 · August 7, 2015, 01:36 AM

A problem with the plunger spring assembly can keep the slide lock from dropping. The front pin of the plunger spring assembly puts slight pressure on the slide lock to keep it from lifting under recoil. If that pin is binding, particularly if the plunger tube is a bit loose, it can hold up the slide lock and prevent it from dropping when the slide is retracted. To test for that problem, remove the thumb safety and plunger spring assembly and see if the slide lock will drop as it is supposed to.

DAVID NANCARROW · August 7, 2015, 08:34 AM

Take your slide and barrel off the frame, then place the slide stop back in. Insert a loaded magazine and see if the rounds are hitting the slide stop. If the rounds are hitting the slide stop, that might be why.

James K · August 7, 2015, 08:44 AM

Aguila Blanca is correct. If everything is in spec, the slide stop is forced down by the slide; if it won't go down, the slide cannot come back. Period.

The Norinco guns are about as close to GI spec as possible, especially since they were built on metric tooling in China so, unless there is a buffer or something else involved, I am inclined to think that someone altered the slide stop or the slide itself.

Jim

Semper Paratus · August 7, 2015, 08:10 PM

Spring Bind? Did you replace a recoil spring recently? If so check for spring bind.

HisSoldier · August 8, 2015, 04:48 AM

I guess if it were mine I'd reassemble with just the slide plus the SS, now, the only spring in play is the plunger spring. I'd slowly pull the slide back when the SS is engaged and see if the camming surface at the front of the notch is camming the SS down as it is supposed to.
I owned only one Norinco, and the hood fit up was way too sloppy for my liking, so it's fine to talk about Norinco as a foundation of an assembly but as an assembled 1911 I'd not assume it was done right.
One pistol I had that was doing that I found making a very tiny dimple for the detent at the back surface of the SS when it is in the down position, if you make it too deep though you can make a SS that won't go up, and so it will not hold the slide back when needed.
Brawnell's sells a long drill bit with what amounts to a tiny ball endmill on the end, you take the detent and spring out, position the drill through the detent housing and carefully cut a detent nest with the SS down, just a tiny one is all that is needed.

That said, many hundreds of thousands of 1911's worked well without doing that, so it seems like a solution to a problem that resides elsewhere.

**Aguila Blanca** · August 8, 2015, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HisSoldier

Brawnell's sells a long drill bit with what amounts to a tiny ball endmill on the end, you take the detent and spring out, position the drill through the detent housing and carefully cut a detent nest with the SS down, just a tiny one is all that is needed.

The detent makes it less likely for the slide stop to move up and lock the slide when the magazine isn't empty. The OP's problem is the opposite -- the slide stop doesn't drop down when he attempts to slingshot the slide. The detent wouldn't be engaged when the slide stop is up.

Theohazard · August 8, 2015, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

If everything is in spec, the slide stop is forced down by the slide; if it won't go down, the slide cannot come back. Period.

Thanks for the info, I've never actually noticed this and I don't own a 1911 at the moment. So I guess my recommendation in post #15 won't work.

James K · August 10, 2015, 05:51 PM

The cut in the slide has a sloped surface at the front and there is a corresponding slope on the slide stop. That is how the slide being drawn back beyond slide lock actually forces the slide stop down, releasing the slide. Of course, the slide stop can also be pushed down manually with the thumb, bot many shooters prefer to use the slide itself, believing that the slide stop can be worn out (!) by manually moving it.

Jim

g.willikers · August 11, 2015, 11:50 AM

Before messing with the gun, try a little old fashion muscle power.
When drawing the slide rearward, do it with real authority.
So much that your hand literally slides right off the back or nearly so.
If the gun works then, it might give a better clue as to where the problem is.
Like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnd-PkHud0M

boatdoc173 · September 10, 2018, 10:20 AM

Thanks@theohazard for this bit of info. You saved me from having to send a gun back. wonder why WC CS did not mention this.? no more shock buffs for me

again thank you

August 6, 2015, 02:58 AM	#4
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	I once installed a Wilson Combat Shok-Buff buffer on my 1911, that's the one that fits on the recoil spring guide rod. Unfortunately, the buffer limited the reward movement of the slide just enough that it caused the exact same problem that you're having. So I removed it and my gun went back to working just fine. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

August 6, 2015, 05:52 PM	#13
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	slide stop issues As said previously have you noticed any "high spots" on either the slide and/or slide stop release? Since this part is not spring-loaded and gravity is its only method of dropping to disengage. With magazine removed a slight rearward pull on the slide should drop the release. It appears to be hindered by a slight burr that can easily be removed. Double check the release and the slide were it goes into. Good luck. __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

August 7, 2015, 08:10 PM	#19
Semper Paratus Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Location: Tidewater, VA Posts: 155	Spring Bind? Did you replace a recoil spring recently? If so check for spring bind. __________________ Semper Paratus--Always Prepared

August 8, 2015, 04:48 AM	#20
HisSoldier Senior Member Join Date: August 9, 2007 Location: Oregoncoast Posts: 1,793	I guess if it were mine I'd reassemble with just the slide plus the SS, now, the only spring in play is the plunger spring. I'd slowly pull the slide back when the SS is engaged and see if the camming surface at the front of the notch is camming the SS down as it is supposed to. I owned only one Norinco, and the hood fit up was way too sloppy for my liking, so it's fine to talk about Norinco as a foundation of an assembly but as an assembled 1911 I'd not assume it was done right. One pistol I had that was doing that I found making a very tiny dimple for the detent at the back surface of the SS when it is in the down position, if you make it too deep though you can make a SS that won't go up, and so it will not hold the slide back when needed. Brawnell's sells a long drill bit with what amounts to a tiny ball endmill on the end, you take the detent and spring out, position the drill through the detent housing and carefully cut a detent nest with the SS down, just a tiny one is all that is needed. That said, many hundreds of thousands of 1911's worked well without doing that, so it seems like a solution to a problem that resides elsewhere. __________________ CNC produced 416 stainless triggers to replace the plastic triggers on Colt Mustangs, Mustang Plus II's, MK IV Government .380's and Sig P238's and P938's. Plus Colt Mustang hardened 416 guide rods, and Llama .32 and .380 recoil spring buttons, checkered nicely and blued.

August 11, 2015, 11:50 AM	#24
g.willikers Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2008 Posts: 10,442	Before messing with the gun, try a little old fashion muscle power. When drawing the slide rearward, do it with real authority. So much that your hand literally slides right off the back or nearly so. If the gun works then, it might give a better clue as to where the problem is. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnd-PkHud0M __________________ Walt Kelly, alias Pogo, sez: “Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.”

August 5, 2015, 11:56 PM	#1
hbk80rice Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Posts: 11	1911 Slide release problem- PLEASE help I have a Norinco 1911a1 and I have an issue with the slide release. When I lock the slide back or when the gun locks back on an empty mag it does the same thing. The slide release will not drop when I pull the slide back. If I put a new full mag in or if there is no mag in the gun and I try to drop the slide by pulling it back, the slide release stays up and will not function like it should. What causes this and more importantly how can I fix this problem so I can get this gun functioning perfectly. Thank you very much for all of the help!!!

August 6, 2015, 12:07 AM	#2
DaleA Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2002 Location: Twin Cities, MN Posts: 5,312	Awww I hate to ask the obvious but there isn't a build up of crude around the slide release is there? I won't take it personally if you say 'bleep no, I know how to clean my gun!!!' but it's kind of a question that has to be asked. FWIW I've looked at Norinco stuff (1911 and M14 semi-auto clones) and they always looked pretty good to me.

August 6, 2015, 02:13 AM	#3
hbk80rice Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Posts: 11	I WISH!!!! Great minds think alike bc that was my very first thought so I broke it down and did a major cleaning by hand and also dropped every individual part into the ultrasonic and it still sticks in the "up" position. No I wouldn't dare yell at someone trying to help me. No ego here, just looking for answers and I thank you for your thought and help. Got any other ideas?

August 6, 2015, 04:23 AM	#5
wedge259 Junior Member Join Date: August 5, 2015 Posts: 5	I had a Part LTC Commander that did the exact same thing. I always prefer to use the slide stop to release the slide rather than pulling it back, but I know it would probably bother some people. Never figured out why it did that, it was a jam o matic so I didn't keep it long.

August 6, 2015, 10:03 AM	#6
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,459	When the slide is pulled back from slide lock, it should travel enough farther back that the forward part of the notch in the slide overrides the slide stop and forces it down. It's not in any way spring loaded, so it won't drop of its own accord. The usual culprit when you can't slingshot is a shock buffer, which reduces the rearward travel by the thickness of the buffer. An exception is Les Baer Commander-size pistols. He makes them so they can't be slingshotted. The reason is that he uses the same frame as his Government size pistols, and won't do the extra 1/10-inch of machining needed to make a Commander work like a Commander. There should not be a problem with a Norinco. Are you running a shock buffer?

August 6, 2015, 10:53 AM	#7
imashooter Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Location: Alabama Posts: 395	If an empty magazine is in the pistol with slide to rear, the slide stop should keep it to the rear whether you pull the slide back a little to release or you manipulate the s/s. That's by design and the Norinco is functioning properly. If you simultaneously pull and release the slide while manipulating the s/s, the slide will move forward.

August 6, 2015, 01:59 PM	#11
polyphemus Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Posts: 1,055	OP,did you field strip your pistol and checked the slide stop for free play under the pawl,and the slide for full rearward travel before you posted?

August 6, 2015, 05:32 PM	#12
hbk80rice Junior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Posts: 11	when I got the gun, it did have one of those buffers on the guide rod. Like some of you are talking about I'm sure that is what cause this problem to occur in the first place. It has since been removed, and the problem has not gone away. Is this something that will just have to be lived with or is this a problem that can be fixed? how?

August 6, 2015, 05:57 PM	#14
polyphemus Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2012 Posts: 1,055	No,it is not to be lived with. If the slide travels freely then the slide stop should be replaced. Your pistol seems to have been modified in the first place,you have to replace whatever was installed that doesn't belong,strip it and carefully reassemble paying attention to the slide action if you removed that rubber washer then it should work,maybe someone installed a funky slide stop and that's why it's still acting up in any event it doesn't sound like something that can't be fixed with a little attention.

August 7, 2015, 01:36 AM	#16
gc70 Senior Member Join Date: May 24, 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,903	A problem with the plunger spring assembly can keep the slide lock from dropping. The front pin of the plunger spring assembly puts slight pressure on the slide lock to keep it from lifting under recoil. If that pin is binding, particularly if the plunger tube is a bit loose, it can hold up the slide lock and prevent it from dropping when the slide is retracted. To test for that problem, remove the thumb safety and plunger spring assembly and see if the slide lock will drop as it is supposed to.

August 7, 2015, 08:34 AM	#17
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	Take your slide and barrel off the frame, then place the slide stop back in. Insert a loaded magazine and see if the rounds are hitting the slide stop. If the rounds are hitting the slide stop, that might be why.

August 7, 2015, 08:44 AM	#18
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Aguila Blanca is correct. If everything is in spec, the slide stop is forced down by the slide; if it won't go down, the slide cannot come back. Period. The Norinco guns are about as close to GI spec as possible, especially since they were built on metric tooling in China so, unless there is a buffer or something else involved, I am inclined to think that someone altered the slide stop or the slide itself. Jim

August 10, 2015, 05:51 PM	#23
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The cut in the slide has a sloped surface at the front and there is a corresponding slope on the slide stop. That is how the slide being drawn back beyond slide lock actually forces the slide stop down, releasing the slide. Of course, the slide stop can also be pushed down manually with the thumb, bot many shooters prefer to use the slide itself, believing that the slide stop can be worn out (!) by manually moving it. Jim

September 10, 2018, 10:20 AM	#25
boatdoc173 Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2015 Location: southern Ct Posts: 194	Thanks@theohazard for this bit of info. You saved me from having to send a gun back. wonder why WC CS did not mention this.? no more shock buffs for me again thank you