Training for aiming.

Xyas · August 17, 2009, 06:02 PM

I was wondering what everyone's opinions were in regards to using one eye vs. both eyes when aiming on a target. Is using both eyes worth training and learning to do? How exactly is it done? I've been trying to shoot with both eyes as of late and I just cannot do it for the life of me and I'm not sure if there is a trick for it. I'm just looking for opinions on this matter, and then perhaps some training exercises to get used to firing with both eyes open!

As always, any and all help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

Cosmik de Bris · August 17, 2009, 06:12 PM

I think tactically it is better to shoot with both eyes open as you have a better all around field of view. It is not easy for some people to do right away but it will come with practice. The brain is a pretty amazing instrument, it starts working when you first wake up and doesn't stop until you get to work.

Cheers

sakeneko · August 17, 2009, 06:44 PM

If you loose vision an eye while you're defending yourself, you're going to be disoriented and confused as hell whether you've practiced or not. I know; I lost most vision in one eye some years ago and it took a year or two to adjust. But if you've practiced one-eyed shooting, you're probably going to be better off than if you didn't. So I think it's a good idea.

For me, of course, there is nothing else to practice.

kraigwy · August 17, 2009, 06:49 PM

shooting with both eyes open, reduses eye strain, and increased balance, among other things.

Its simple to train yourself. If you can't concentrat (the main reason for not being able to use both eyes) then tape over the lense of your shooting glasses of the non-using eye. If you dont use shooting glasses, start, thats dumber then not wearing hearing protection.

shooter-55 · August 17, 2009, 07:49 PM

Some of us have a problem with a cross-dominance. I shoot right handed, but am left eye dominant. The solution is to "squint" the opposite eye and still keep peripheral vision. This has been taught for years and works. Completely shutting one eye also limits your depth perception, but squinting does not. Try it and see.

Kyo · August 17, 2009, 07:53 PM

I shoot right handed, I am a left handed writer.
I use my right eye for targeting and keep both eyes open.
There is no point in closing the other eye because you lose perception. you learn this by keeping both eyes open, but just focusing your target on your dominant eye

Mello2u · August 17, 2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Xyas

Training for aiming.
I was wondering what everyone's opinions were in regards to using one eye vs. both eyes when aiming on a target. Is using both eyes worth training and learning to do? How exactly is it done? I've been trying to shoot with both eyes as of late and I just cannot do it for the life of me and I'm not sure if there is a trick for it. I'm just looking for opinions on this matter, and then perhaps some training exercises to get used to firing with both eyes open!

You say "target" not human threat; so, if you are target shooting you have lots of time and probably no threats. In that case if you shoot more accurately with one eye do so.

If you want to try to learn to shoot with both eyes open it takes time to train yourself to do so. It is sort of like (but different) training yourself to concentrate and focus in such a way as to see those three dimensional pictures in those "wavy lines" thingies that are sometime printed in newspapers.
http://www.vision3d.com/sghidden/ima...den/shark.jpeg

While focusing on your sight picture, try to partially close your non-dominant eye and progressively open it more and more.

Xyas · August 17, 2009, 10:20 PM

First, Mello...I hate you. I've been staring at that thing for 5 minutes and now all I have is a headache.

Second, my main problem when using both eyes open is that everything is sortof blurry. The other problem is that I can't line up the rear sights with the front sight because...well...there's like 4 different sights with both my eyes open, that or everything is blurry and I can't line it up. Are there ways to get around it? Does it sound like I'm doing it wrong?

The whole key is to just focus on the front sight, correct?

Old Grump · August 18, 2009, 11:04 AM

That staring doohickey was a dirty trick.

Stick your arm out and stick your thumb up in the air without your gun in your hand. focus on your thumbnail with both eyes. Unless you have a problem you should be able to see the striations in your thumb nail, the with of the nail, the quick of your nail and maybe where yu need to take a nail file and clean your nail. Now do it again but arm pointed at the target. close one eye, if the target is still behind the thumb that is your dominant eye, if it moved the other eye is dominant. If you are lucky and most of us are your dominant eye and dominant hand will be the same.

Load up some snap caps and repeat the exercise in front of the target. Raise your barrel till your front sight is up in the air and you can focus on it. Never mind the target just put both of your peepers on the front sight, lower the sight till its centered in the notch and slowly squeeze the trigger. Imagine the front sight as being part of the trigger and when you squeeze the trigger you are pulling the front sight back through the notch of the rear sight. Takes a lot of concentrating on the front sight to do this. You will not know when the gun is going to go off because all of your concentration is controlling the trigger and front sight as one unit.

You may see two targets, no big deal you are shooting at the brighter of the two, that is the one in front of the dominant eye. It will be fuzzy, that is good, it means you are looking at your front sight. If you see both clearly you are bull gazing which means your focus is exactly between the front sight and the target and you aren't really seeing either one correctly. This will be evident when you look at the pattern on your target instead of a group.

Now the hard part my friend. blank sheet of whit paper, fine line pen and black ink. Use a ruler and make a perfect horizontal line and in the middle of it a perfect vertical line. extend your arm straight out and touch a wall, that is where the center of that little cross you just made has to go. Preferably not in the living room unless your wife has a really good sense of humor.

Now place gun in your hand and put the barrel up in shooting position, snap caps only, live ammo ruins the paper and upsets women and children when fired in the house. The horizontal line sits on top of the front sight, the vertical line runs up from the center of the front sight. No recoil to worry about, no noise except a little click when the hammer comes down. Focus on that front sight with both eyes again and draw that sight back through the notch of the rear sight, again and again.

When you can do that perfectly 10 times you have completed your first day of perfect sight alignment and trigger squeeze practice, two items with one exercise, how about that for efficiency. Do this daily till you can rip off 10 perfect shots in a row. Be honest, if you vary your focus or your squeeze that line will look like it has run a mile from your sight. Best practice you can get and the cheapest practice you can get. Yup us old dinosaurs who have been shooting for 50 years do it to, or we should if we don't, we get rusty too.

On the range your exercise should make looking at the front sight automatic. The sky overhead and bright light and the wind just makes it more fun. load up and do your exercise again. Do NOT worry about score at this point in time. You are only doing your front sight focus exercise. Later when you are shooting groups you adjust the sight to make it go where you want it to but score is not the point right now. Group size is and that will happen when you get your focus where it belongs, up front on rifle or pistol.

Xyas · August 18, 2009, 07:04 PM

That post above was amazing and very very helpful; thank you old grump!. My question now...when I pull the trigger and the hammer comes down I do fine dry firing. When I'm really doing it at the range, however, I end up jumping like a grasshopper. Is this something that goes away over time? I hate jumping after every shot because I really have no clue when the gun is going to go off. Once again, thanks! As my practice continues I am getting better and better at aiming with both eyes open!

oneounceload · August 18, 2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

First, Mello...I hate you. I've been staring at that thing for 5 minutes and now all I have is a headache.

Second, my main problem when using both eyes open is that everything is sortof blurry. The other problem is that I can't line up the rear sights with the front sight because...well...there's like 4 different sights with both my eyes open, that or everything is blurry and I can't line it up. Are there ways to get around it? Does it sound like I'm doing it wrong?

The whole key is to just focus on the front sight, correct?

First things first - had your eyes checked lately? When things went blurry, I found out I needed corrective lenses. Second, determine your eye dominance. Third, two eyes give you depth perception and a full field of view. Shooting pistol is very similar to sporting clays - you need both eyes and the correct dominant eye/hold and focus on your target

Lee Lapin · August 18, 2009, 07:27 PM

Spend a little time with this article and see if it helps- http://www.hockscqc.com/articles/bin...ular/index.htm .

lpl

wally626 · August 18, 2009, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Second, my main problem when using both eyes open is that everything is sortof blurry. The other problem is that I can't line up the rear sights with the front sight because...well...there's like 4 different sights with both my eyes open, that or everything is blurry and I can't line it up. Are there ways to get around it? Does it sound like I'm doing it wrong?

The whole key is to just focus on the front sight, correct?

Sounds like you are developing double vision when trying to close focus. You may want to visit the eye doctor. Some people, like me, have eyes that do not work together properly. My current eye glass prescription has a prism to help out keeping the eyes aligned. I mostly just ignore my right eye, so it doesn't bother me while shooting.

Edit to add. Read the link from Lee Lapin and it appears the double vision thing is pretty normal. I have tried both the slanting the gun a little in the right hand to get the left eye more aligned, shooting left handed, and just switching dominance to the right eye. i shoot about the same using the first two the third gives me a headache after a while.

Xyas · August 18, 2009, 07:34 PM

I figured out what I was doing wrong. If I moved the firearm just the slightest to the right (or head to the left), I end up seeing everything picture clear. I wear glasses/contacts already so that is a problem but one that is corrected. In the end it was just me holding the gun directly in front of me, making it so I saw the sights from an angle with each eye. Now if I move it to the right just a tad I end up being all set. Thanks for the help anyways though! It all is greatly appreciated.

August 17, 2009, 06:02 PM	#1
Xyas Member Join Date: July 2, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 87	Training for aiming. I was wondering what everyone's opinions were in regards to using one eye vs. both eyes when aiming on a target. Is using both eyes worth training and learning to do? How exactly is it done? I've been trying to shoot with both eyes as of late and I just cannot do it for the life of me and I'm not sure if there is a trick for it. I'm just looking for opinions on this matter, and then perhaps some training exercises to get used to firing with both eyes open! As always, any and all help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

August 17, 2009, 06:49 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	shooting with both eyes open, reduses eye strain, and increased balance, among other things. Its simple to train yourself. If you can't concentrat (the main reason for not being able to use both eyes) then tape over the lense of your shooting glasses of the non-using eye. If you dont use shooting glasses, start, thats dumber then not wearing hearing protection. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

August 17, 2009, 07:49 PM	#5
shooter-55 Member Join Date: February 10, 2007 Location: Northern Ohio Posts: 35	either eye... Some of us have a problem with a cross-dominance. I shoot right handed, but am left eye dominant. The solution is to "squint" the opposite eye and still keep peripheral vision. This has been taught for years and works. Completely shutting one eye also limits your depth perception, but squinting does not. Try it and see.

August 18, 2009, 11:04 AM	#9
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	That staring doohickey was a dirty trick. Stick your arm out and stick your thumb up in the air without your gun in your hand. focus on your thumbnail with both eyes. Unless you have a problem you should be able to see the striations in your thumb nail, the with of the nail, the quick of your nail and maybe where yu need to take a nail file and clean your nail. Now do it again but arm pointed at the target. close one eye, if the target is still behind the thumb that is your dominant eye, if it moved the other eye is dominant. If you are lucky and most of us are your dominant eye and dominant hand will be the same. Load up some snap caps and repeat the exercise in front of the target. Raise your barrel till your front sight is up in the air and you can focus on it. Never mind the target just put both of your peepers on the front sight, lower the sight till its centered in the notch and slowly squeeze the trigger. Imagine the front sight as being part of the trigger and when you squeeze the trigger you are pulling the front sight back through the notch of the rear sight. Takes a lot of concentrating on the front sight to do this. You will not know when the gun is going to go off because all of your concentration is controlling the trigger and front sight as one unit. You may see two targets, no big deal you are shooting at the brighter of the two, that is the one in front of the dominant eye. It will be fuzzy, that is good, it means you are looking at your front sight. If you see both clearly you are bull gazing which means your focus is exactly between the front sight and the target and you aren't really seeing either one correctly. This will be evident when you look at the pattern on your target instead of a group. Now the hard part my friend. blank sheet of whit paper, fine line pen and black ink. Use a ruler and make a perfect horizontal line and in the middle of it a perfect vertical line. extend your arm straight out and touch a wall, that is where the center of that little cross you just made has to go. Preferably not in the living room unless your wife has a really good sense of humor. Now place gun in your hand and put the barrel up in shooting position, snap caps only, live ammo ruins the paper and upsets women and children when fired in the house. The horizontal line sits on top of the front sight, the vertical line runs up from the center of the front sight. No recoil to worry about, no noise except a little click when the hammer comes down. Focus on that front sight with both eyes again and draw that sight back through the notch of the rear sight, again and again. When you can do that perfectly 10 times you have completed your first day of perfect sight alignment and trigger squeeze practice, two items with one exercise, how about that for efficiency. Do this daily till you can rip off 10 perfect shots in a row. Be honest, if you vary your focus or your squeeze that line will look like it has run a mile from your sight. Best practice you can get and the cheapest practice you can get. Yup us old dinosaurs who have been shooting for 50 years do it to, or we should if we don't, we get rusty too. On the range your exercise should make looking at the front sight automatic. The sky overhead and bright light and the wind just makes it more fun. load up and do your exercise again. Do NOT worry about score at this point in time. You are only doing your front sight focus exercise. Later when you are shooting groups you adjust the sight to make it go where you want it to but score is not the point right now. Group size is and that will happen when you get your focus where it belongs, up front on rifle or pistol. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

August 18, 2009, 07:27 PM	#12
Lee Lapin Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2004 Location: SE NC Posts: 1,239	Spend a little time with this article and see if it helps- http://www.hockscqc.com/articles/bin...ular/index.htm . lpl __________________ Mindset - Skillset - Toolset. In that order! Attitude and skill will get you through times of no gear, better than gear will get you through times of no attitude and no skill.

August 17, 2009, 06:12 PM	#2
Cosmik de Bris Member Join Date: December 15, 2008 Posts: 65	I think tactically it is better to shoot with both eyes open as you have a better all around field of view. It is not easy for some people to do right away but it will come with practice. The brain is a pretty amazing instrument, it starts working when you first wake up and doesn't stop until you get to work. Cheers

August 17, 2009, 06:44 PM	#3
sakeneko Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 644	If you loose vision an eye while you're defending yourself, you're going to be disoriented and confused as hell whether you've practiced or not. I know; I lost most vision in one eye some years ago and it took a year or two to adjust. But if you've practiced one-eyed shooting, you're probably going to be better off than if you didn't. So I think it's a good idea. For me, of course, there is nothing else to practice.

August 17, 2009, 07:53 PM	#6
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	I shoot right handed, I am a left handed writer. I use my right eye for targeting and keep both eyes open. There is no point in closing the other eye because you lose perception. you learn this by keeping both eyes open, but just focusing your target on your dominant eye

August 17, 2009, 10:20 PM	#8
Xyas Member Join Date: July 2, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 87	First, Mello...I hate you. I've been staring at that thing for 5 minutes and now all I have is a headache. Second, my main problem when using both eyes open is that everything is sortof blurry. The other problem is that I can't line up the rear sights with the front sight because...well...there's like 4 different sights with both my eyes open, that or everything is blurry and I can't line it up. Are there ways to get around it? Does it sound like I'm doing it wrong? The whole key is to just focus on the front sight, correct?

August 18, 2009, 07:04 PM	#10
Xyas Member Join Date: July 2, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 87	That post above was amazing and very very helpful; thank you old grump!. My question now...when I pull the trigger and the hammer comes down I do fine dry firing. When I'm really doing it at the range, however, I end up jumping like a grasshopper. Is this something that goes away over time? I hate jumping after every shot because I really have no clue when the gun is going to go off. Once again, thanks! As my practice continues I am getting better and better at aiming with both eyes open!

August 18, 2009, 07:34 PM	#14
Xyas Member Join Date: July 2, 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 87	I figured out what I was doing wrong. If I moved the firearm just the slightest to the right (or head to the left), I end up seeing everything picture clear. I wear glasses/contacts already so that is a problem but one that is corrected. In the end it was just me holding the gun directly in front of me, making it so I saw the sights from an angle with each eye. Now if I move it to the right just a tad I end up being all set. Thanks for the help anyways though! It all is greatly appreciated.