Care to debate this?

Makarov9x · February 4, 2006, 10:20 PM

This article was taken directly from the Field and Stream web site:
http://www.fieldandstream.com/fields...832817,00.html

"[Myth #4]
Long barrels don’t increase velocity. You will read that powder burns entirely in the first 18 to 19 inches of the barrel, so any additional barrel length has no effect on velocity. Untrue: Shotshell velocities don’t change as dramatically as do rifle velocities as barrel length increases or decreases, but they can differ a few feet per second per inch of barrel, especially with the slow burn-rate powders used in many steel loads. Bear in mind that manufacturers typically list shotshell velocities based on results from a 30-inch test barrel. If you’re one of those who shoots a little stubby thing in the duck blind, your 21-inch-barreled gun may be shooting measurably slower than the 30-inch-barreled pumps and autos on either side of you using the same ammunition."

I would have thought a barrel of say 24 inches would have less friction thus showing more FPS than a 30 inch barrel.

Dfariswheel · February 5, 2006, 12:22 AM

Well, you can trust whoever this guy is, who as far as I can see offers no evidence for his opinion..

OR..
You can trust the American Rifleman Technical editors.
Some years ago the NRA technical people decided to investigate some "common" knowledge about shotguns.

Among these were the belief that longer barrels patterned better, had more velocity, and shot "harder".
The short barrel stories said that short barrels will shoot more open patterns, and shoot lower velocities.

To investigate, the NRA got a Marlin Goose Gun with a 36" barrel.
They attached a choke device to the muzzle and shot pattern and chronograph tests, then cut one inch off the barrel, reattached the choke device and ran the tests again.

The continued this process until the barrel was down below 12 inches.

Their results by actual testing:
Anything that's going to happen ballisticaly in a shotgun barrel will happen within 18 inches, so a short barrel shoots just as "hard" (or fast) as a longer barrel.
The longer barrel idea is a left over from the days of black powder when longer barrels DID work better.

Anything over 28 inches and you start to loose velocity from friction.

Barrel length has nothing to do with how tight a barrel patterns.

In their tests, "things didn't start to get out of hand" until the barrel was down about 12 inches.

So, you take the word of someone of unknown credentials, based on no data, or you can trust the NRA's tech staff with their well-known reputation and based on a scientific test with methods and results published in the Rifleman.

Petre · February 5, 2006, 10:24 AM

I'm no shotgun expert , but , just as an observation ... when I have shot my Marine Magnum in my backyard at night , flames shoot out about a good 6 inches.

svenco · February 5, 2006, 12:47 PM

Dfariswheel's reply was helpful and indeed backed by a good source. His answer is also been appropriate to a post I made on barrel length discussions yesterday, which has garnered no replies, so I thank you.

Rimrod · February 5, 2006, 05:26 PM

I shot identical buckshot loads at a 55 gallon drum from 18" and 30" barrels. The rounds out of the 18" barrel would not penetrate the barrel where the 30" rounds did. It makes a difference.

CobrayCommando · February 5, 2006, 05:40 PM

I really know nothing about shotguns, so I may sound like an idiot here:

What your saying in essence is that in fact you could use an 18 inch barreled home defense shotgun and use it for skeet shooting?

Would you have to choke it differently?

Dfariswheel · February 5, 2006, 08:14 PM

Yes, you would need to have a different choke.

The advantage longer barreled guns have is in shooting moving targets like clay birds, or game like ducks and geese.

The longer barrel, "points" better at distant, moving targets.

BusGunner007 · February 5, 2006, 10:43 PM

I'm ready to take my Beretta 1201FPG3 recoil-operated autoloader with its 20" smoothbore bbl. out for high-flying GEESE, based on this information...

Nothin' more FUN than a COMBAT CLAYS gun for GEESE!

Sniper X · February 9, 2006, 05:16 PM

The thing about longer is faster came from rifles and is true to an extent. Up to about 28in you do get a few feet per second more velocity, although the reason for this is rifling, twist rate and of course physics. With a typical smooth bore shotgun this is not a factor. Even in sniping systems they are going to shorter barrels for ranges out to about 500M. The 22 in Tactical Ops rifle shoots a 1/4 moa as does a 26in Tac ops Pss, but at distance the longer barrel performes better. I am however talking about past 600M. much beyond that around 800m 7.62mm Nato needs to be replaced by .330 win mag or .338 lapua Mag....

Arnie4176 · February 9, 2006, 09:57 PM

I thought this might be something interesting to put in this thread...

Link:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...h-results1.jsp

Talk about "reach out and touch" the bird

swipter · February 9, 2006, 10:22 PM

I wonder if I could but two of those together and hunt eagles....wait eagle hunting is illegal.

Arnie4176 · February 9, 2006, 10:31 PM

It looks like you could put two together

, they are treaded for choke tubes. But at $194 each... who needs 60" of barrel?

Does anybody actually use one of these things? are they really practical? I just laughed when I saw it.

BigFunWMU · February 10, 2006, 05:54 AM

That 60" bbl would put the muzzle almost 2 yards closer to the target...

So at short ranges, with the shooter standing in the same place each time, it may pattern better than a shorter bbl...

Should make it harder to accidently sweep your buddies in the blind too

...

February 4, 2006, 10:20 PM	#1
Makarov9x Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2005 Posts: 128	Care to debate this? This article was taken directly from the Field and Stream web site: http://www.fieldandstream.com/fields...832817,00.html "[Myth #4] Long barrels don’t increase velocity. You will read that powder burns entirely in the first 18 to 19 inches of the barrel, so any additional barrel length has no effect on velocity. Untrue: Shotshell velocities don’t change as dramatically as do rifle velocities as barrel length increases or decreases, but they can differ a few feet per second per inch of barrel, especially with the slow burn-rate powders used in many steel loads. Bear in mind that manufacturers typically list shotshell velocities based on results from a 30-inch test barrel. If you’re one of those who shoots a little stubby thing in the duck blind, your 21-inch-barreled gun may be shooting measurably slower than the 30-inch-barreled pumps and autos on either side of you using the same ammunition." I would have thought a barrel of say 24 inches would have less friction thus showing more FPS than a 30 inch barrel.

February 5, 2006, 10:24 AM	#3
Petre Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2005 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 634	I'm no shotgun expert , but , just as an observation ... when I have shot my Marine Magnum in my backyard at night , flames shoot out about a good 6 inches. __________________ DOCTORS A The number of Doctors in the U.S. is approximately 700,000 B Accidental deaths caused by Doctors per year average 120,000 or 0.171 per Doctor GUNS A The number of legal gun owners in the U.S. is currently over 80,000,000 B The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1500 or .000188 per gun owner Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000x more dangerous than gun owners Remember, Guns don't kill people, DOCTORS do

February 5, 2006, 05:26 PM	#5
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	I shot identical buckshot loads at a 55 gallon drum from 18" and 30" barrels. The rounds out of the 18" barrel would not penetrate the barrel where the 30" rounds did. It makes a difference. __________________ "... he held his gun as almost every man skilled in such matters preferred to hold one when in action, with a half bent elbow that brought the gun slightly in front of his body at about, or slightly above, the level of the waist." - Wyatt Earp from Wyatt Earp Frontier Marshall by Stuart N. Lake

February 5, 2006, 10:43 PM	#8
BusGunner007 Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2001 Location: Upper Left Coast Posts: 2,116	I'm ready to take my Beretta 1201FPG3 recoil-operated autoloader with its 20" smoothbore bbl. out for high-flying GEESE, based on this information... Nothin' more FUN than a COMBAT CLAYS gun for GEESE! __________________ "...if you're not havin' fun, you're workin'..."

February 9, 2006, 05:16 PM	#9
Sniper X Junior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Posts: 5	From rifles... The thing about longer is faster came from rifles and is true to an extent. Up to about 28in you do get a few feet per second more velocity, although the reason for this is rifling, twist rate and of course physics. With a typical smooth bore shotgun this is not a factor. Even in sniping systems they are going to shorter barrels for ranges out to about 500M. The 22 in Tactical Ops rifle shoots a 1/4 moa as does a 26in Tac ops Pss, but at distance the longer barrel performes better. I am however talking about past 600M. much beyond that around 800m 7.62mm Nato needs to be replaced by .330 win mag or .338 lapua Mag....

February 5, 2006, 12:22 AM	#2
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Well, you can trust whoever this guy is, who as far as I can see offers no evidence for his opinion.. OR.. You can trust the American Rifleman Technical editors. Some years ago the NRA technical people decided to investigate some "common" knowledge about shotguns. Among these were the belief that longer barrels patterned better, had more velocity, and shot "harder". The short barrel stories said that short barrels will shoot more open patterns, and shoot lower velocities. To investigate, the NRA got a Marlin Goose Gun with a 36" barrel. They attached a choke device to the muzzle and shot pattern and chronograph tests, then cut one inch off the barrel, reattached the choke device and ran the tests again. The continued this process until the barrel was down below 12 inches. Their results by actual testing: Anything that's going to happen ballisticaly in a shotgun barrel will happen within 18 inches, so a short barrel shoots just as "hard" (or fast) as a longer barrel. The longer barrel idea is a left over from the days of black powder when longer barrels DID work better. Anything over 28 inches and you start to loose velocity from friction. Barrel length has nothing to do with how tight a barrel patterns. In their tests, "things didn't start to get out of hand" until the barrel was down about 12 inches. So, you take the word of someone of unknown credentials, based on no data, or you can trust the NRA's tech staff with their well-known reputation and based on a scientific test with methods and results published in the Rifleman.

February 5, 2006, 12:47 PM	#4
svenco Junior Member Join Date: February 4, 2006 Location: NH Posts: 5	Thanks for the good response Dfariswheel's reply was helpful and indeed backed by a good source. His answer is also been appropriate to a post I made on barrel length discussions yesterday, which has garnered no replies, so I thank you.

February 5, 2006, 05:40 PM	#6
CobrayCommando Junior member Join Date: November 21, 2004 Posts: 1,631	I really know nothing about shotguns, so I may sound like an idiot here: What your saying in essence is that in fact you could use an 18 inch barreled home defense shotgun and use it for skeet shooting? Would you have to choke it differently?

February 5, 2006, 08:14 PM	#7
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	Yes, you would need to have a different choke. The advantage longer barreled guns have is in shooting moving targets like clay birds, or game like ducks and geese. The longer barrel, "points" better at distant, moving targets.

February 9, 2006, 09:57 PM	#10
Arnie4176 Member Join Date: January 14, 2006 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 68	I thought this might be something interesting to put in this thread... Link: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...h-results1.jsp Talk about "reach out and touch" the bird __________________ "Guns don't kill people. People kill home-invaders, muggers, robbers, car-jackers.... with guns." "Gun control is hitting your target."

February 9, 2006, 10:22 PM	#11
swipter Member Join Date: December 22, 2005 Posts: 50	I wonder if I could but two of those together and hunt eagles....wait eagle hunting is illegal.

February 9, 2006, 10:31 PM	#12
Arnie4176 Member Join Date: January 14, 2006 Location: Bay City, Michigan Posts: 68	It looks like you could put two together , they are treaded for choke tubes. But at $194 each... who needs 60" of barrel? Does anybody actually use one of these things? are they really practical? I just laughed when I saw it. __________________ "Guns don't kill people. People kill home-invaders, muggers, robbers, car-jackers.... with guns." "Gun control is hitting your target."

February 10, 2006, 05:54 AM	#13
BigFunWMU Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2005 Posts: 304	That 60" bbl would put the muzzle almost 2 yards closer to the target... So at short ranges, with the shooter standing in the same place each time, it may pattern better than a shorter bbl... Should make it harder to accidently sweep your buddies in the blind too... __________________ "Anarchism is founded on the observation that since few men are wise enough to rule themselves, even fewer are wise enough to rule others." - Edward Abbey