Warm weather and pistol cycling...HELP!!!!

[redlightrich]

Hello All, Happy Easter to those who celebrate!!!

Below is a re-post from a different site. I am not getting enough insight from them. I am having the darndest time. Keep in mind, I am using Kimber top and bottom ends. I have mic'ed them out, and slide/frame clearance is .0065 to .0075 ( depending on my combination of slide/frame. The slide moves freely on the frame. I have checked the disco, and even tried lowering the MS to 17 pounds which made things worse ( I think the slide was outrunning the mag at that point).

Anyway, below is my long winded question. I have kept a journal for over a year and a half, and I am now certain that the temperature is key. If I leave my gun, and mags in direct sunlight, on a warm day, the gun is unstoppable. It will shoot any junk you can load into it. 36,38, 40 grain, Hollow, Round Nose, HV, SV, doesn't matter. It is dead reliable when hot.

This is my re-post from a rimfire type site. Unfortunately the best experience there is rifle related.

Hello all, I have a few Kimber 1911's with Rimfire Conversion kits also by Kimber on them. I have several kits ( black and silver and multiples of same) at any rate, what I am finding is when the weather is above 75 degrees, these guns run flawlessly. If I get any failures at all, it is a surprise. The warmer it is, the better they run.

If the weather dips between 70 and 40, they start to develop Failure to Feed, such as pull trigger, click, rack slide, note empty chamber, release slide and pull trigger again and bang. This happens often. I usually note, when the chamber is empty that the round did not rise enough in the mag.

Drop the temp below 40 and the gun isn't even worth using. It acts like a single shot repeater.

When it is cold, ammo makes no difference. Yes I tried, CCI HV 40 grain round nose does not help. Neither do Remginton Golden 40G HV round nose. These 2 ammo types usually will cycle the most stubborn 22.

When it is warm, it will cycle most any ammo, including good quality standard velocity.

I have kept a "journal" since I purchased these, and the temperature is the key.

My question is what is changing for the better in the warmth? The slide, being aluminum will expand ( probably to a greater degree than the steel frame)giving greater clearances, the mags will also expand ( possibly allowing the rounds to feed up more freely, in severe cold, there where times when I would rack the slide, hold it rearward, and observe as the round would slowly climb up the mag) or can it be the lube on the ammo itself?

I always lube the slide rails and disco and other contact points with Hoppes gun/reel oil which is very lightweight.
Is there something I am overlooking? Should I run them dry in the cold? Meaning no lube at all?

If these guns weren't so enjoyable to me when it runs well in the warm weather, I would have already given up. They are accurate and well balanced, and I just plain like shooting it.

If anyone has experienced this, or has any ideas as to why I have this issue, please let me know. The reason I don't think it is the ammo is because I usually bring a few different guns to the range, and when the Kimbers won't run, I use the same ammo successfully in other guns.

I would love to make this gun reliable year round. I would hate to relegate it to spring and summer use only. Yes, I usually shoot outdoors. The problem would not exist if I only shot at an indoor range as it never gets that cold inside. Please note, I have several Kimber bottom ends so there are times I bring multiple Kimbers to the range and they all react the same.

Thank you for any ideas you can offer

Rich

[g.willikers]

The solution is obvious - shoot indoors in winter, move south, or warm the gun before using.
Or keep it for summer shooting and buy a Ruger for the other times.
Glad to have helped.
And thanks for the warning to avoid this particular rimfire choice.

[ShootistPRS]

Without having your gun in my hands I can only offer places to look.
Clean your magazines, inside and out, looking for wax and dirt buildup. do not lube them.
Check the clearance between the magazine lips and slide.
Check that the magazine lips allow the cartridges to come up far enough to be picked up by the slide.
Clean the lands and grooves of your frame and slide and apply a small amount of slide lubricant to the rails.
Clean the chamber and breech block face on the slide. Do not lube them.
Clean the internal parts of the action especially the sear disconnecter and use light oil to lube them.

[4V50 Gary]

Makes me think of the Germans invaders in the Soviet Union and how they learned the hard way to wipe all oil off their firearms lest they freeze or seize up and stop working. At 40F it isn't freezing and a few degrees should not affect metal either way, but perhaps a change in the lubricant will help? Instead of Hoppe's Oil, try something like BreakFree or a dry lube.

[Dufus]

I never had that problem with a handgun (prolly not what you wanna hear), but I did with a Remington POS semi-auto rifle.

There was always unburned or incompletely burned powder building up in the action and it would jam terribly in cold weather, and badly in hot weather . I could not shoot it lubricated, I could not shoot it dry.

I got me a can of graphite spray lubricant. It goes on wet and the propellant dries to a dry powder graphite.

The action functions as the manufacturer intended. The rest of the rifle does not.

[B-Shot]

How many mags have you tried?

[T. O'Heir]

"...Drop the temp below 40 and..." 40 F isn't cold enough to cause anything. Even with the pistol slathered with oil and grease.
No firearm will expand and contract enough with normal temperature changes to affect function. Mind you, it's entirely possible that conversion kit is just no good too. That or the mags are junk. Feeding issues are usually mag related.
The Germans invaders were dealing with temperatures in the minus 60(Record is -96.2 °F at Oymyakon in 1924. Far East Russia.) and below. The oil in their vehicles was turning to cement, never mind the light stuff in their weapons freezing solid.

[4V50 Gary]

I usually note, when the chamber is empty that the round did not rise enough in the mag.

I just reread it. Therein lies your problem.

[James K]

I might suggest cleaning the inside of the magazines. That can be (and should be) done with .22 magazines without trying to disassemble them (soaking and/or sonic bath). Also use only plated bullets or clean off all the grease, which hardens at room temperature and can cause problems. Then make sure the chamber and the floating chamber are very clean with no grease or oil.

Jim

[redlightrich]

Hello Bshot, and the next 2 posters, I have 9 magazines, all numbered. I have kept them immaculate, actually disassembling each time after use to clean.
I have noted no difference with any of the mags. Some have thousands of rounds thru them ( remember, it runs great in summer) , some have hundreds.

I have tried other brand mags, but none that I have tried seem to match up properly with the slide. There are subtle but important differences between 1911-22 mags of different manufacturers.

Today, I just received an order from Ciener, who makes a metal mag. It appears to be of better quality than the Kimber mag, but seems to use a similar feed lip profile.

I have been messing around with this for a long time, and I really want to make it run. Fortunately, I do have a Ruger MkIII which is almost boring in it's reliability.

I have considered making a warming box ( like an incubator) to put the gun and mags in during the cold periods. I NEVER oil or lube a magazine ( who ever posted for me not to) Maybe the dry lube during the cold is a good idea.

I will report back after I test my new metal mags.

Thank almost all of you all for the helpful responses

Kind regards

Rich

[redlightrich]

Well, based on being desperate, I ordered some magazines from Jonathan A Ciener, and I was actually very surprised when my order arrived. I have heard horror stories, but my experience was not bad ( except for the fact that he substituted my 15 round mags for 10s. Their site has an error, and they think NJ is a 10 round state.

Anyway, the Ciener mags are metal, and very well made. They are made with a high degree of precision. Not only does the floor plate have an interesting way of sliding in, but the rear of the magazine also slides down and comes out for easy cleaning. Very well made.

The Ciener site says that their mags will not work with any other conversions, but when I matched them up with my Kimber mags, it becomes clear that feed lips are in identical places and the lip profile is identical. Please note, I have many conversion kits, and tried many mags. The Ceiner is close to the feeding arrangement of Kimber.

Anyway, today was 50 degrees, rainy and overcast. The perfect day for many fail to feeds.

I tried the Ceiner mags on my Kimber kit, and used 4 types of ammo. All HV, but some round nose, and some Hollows.

I went thru 340 rounds, and I encountered 2 fail to chambers, both on the 2nd round. I will say, this is a marked improvement over the Kimber poly mags. Using the Kimber mags on a day like today, and trying to get thru 340 rounds, I would have 30 to 40 fail to feeds.

I am going to try and test this again, but the first outing was encouraging. If the Ciener's will run in the cold, then I will use the Kimber poly's in warm weather only. If my next outing works out well, I will certainly order more Ceiner mags..