More open carry guys scaring the public

[Sweet Shooter]

I understand. But it has for me. I'll admit it, I don't want hose idiots to carry guns. I have no idea what the answer is to this mess, but in saying:

This has done nothing, repeat nothing, to help us

You're creating some kind of alignment between those fools and me (us).

P.S. I did say "In another imaginary make believe world."

-SS-

[eldermike]

If someone comes into my wifes place of business with a long gun hanging off their body that will be the day a sign goes up on the door......no guns allowed.

I am as pro-gun, pro-rights as anyone and more than most I have met. The NRA has this wrong (now), they had it right and then they got it wrong.

We are in business to make MONEY.......and running off some of the customers is not good for business.

[zxcvbob]

What about the NRA? Did I miss something?

[Tom Servo]

This guy was going through OCT's photos on their site, and he noticed this one.

Zoom in on the AR-15 on the left. It's loaded, and the safety's off. Like the other four guns, it's just sitting there, unattended. That certainly conveys the image that these are responsible gun owners, doesn't it?

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

This guy was going through OCT's photos on their site, and he noticed this one.

Zoom in on the AR-15 on the left. It's loaded, and the safety's off. Like the other four guns, it's just sitting there, unattended. That certainly conveys the image that these are responsible gun owners, doesn't it?

That also illustrates a basic problem with carrying long guns in public. If you're going to sit down and eat or have a coffee or do a lot of normal things, you will need to un-sling the gun and put it down somewhere/somehow. And that means that from time to time a long gun will be out of the carrier's immediate custody and control.

SOP at Guniste is interesting in this regard. It's a hot range, and handguns in our holsters and long guns slung are routinely carried about loaded. But the rule is that long guns on racks are unloaded with the action open.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Gee - wonder if any of those old coots could get up and chase a teenager who grabs a rifle over the top and runs out the door?

They going to open fire on a street with their EBRs?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Same at the local carbine matches. We are very careful on moving the long arms. Screw up and you are out of there. One guy had his slung, bent over and pointed his muzzle at everyone. Adios.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by zxcvbob

What about the NRA? Did I miss something?

The NRA recently criticized these in-your-face log gun open carry rallies, and many of us cheered. But they immediately caved and retracted that statement. So for a moment they were using common sense on the issue, but then they took it back.

[SocialAnarchist]

Exercising a right is not necessarily a good thing.

AM I the only one who is appalled by the above statement?

This is the very logic of the ban guns crowd that pick away at our gun rights.

[psalm7]

As a youngster in the 70,s and 80,s me and several other kids would leave home with Rifles and Shotguns walk across town then a mile to Moutain hunt most of the day walk back to town and stop at the local grogery store with our guns buy somthing to snack on and drink and it didn't bother anyone . Have we progressed so far as a Nation that there is something wrong with that type of entertainment for our kids .

[Brian Pfleuger]

Have we progressed so far as a Nation that there is something wrong with that type of entertainment for our kids .

I wouldn't use the word "progressed" but the simple answer to the question is, yes. In most places, that sort of thing is long since past. It's a shame but we can't live in a fantasy land. The world just is not like that anymore.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by SocialAnarchist

AM I the only one who is appalled by the above statement?

Which statement? You mean in my post, or the statement "Exercising a right is not necessarily a good thing"?

If that's what you meant, I'll say I'm not appalled by that statement if he meant it the way I think he meant it. For clarity, I'd alter it to say, "Abusing a right in a way that will get that right taken away is not necessarily a good thing."

[tomrkba]

Guys,

The NRA stated that it was a staffer's opinion and not the policy of the NRA. I find it very odd that gun people believe the anti-rights MSM. All the MSM had to do was call the NRA for clarification on their position. The MSM has lost so much "gun credibility" that if they said "Guns shoot bullets" I would have to double check.

[eldermike]

As a youngster in the 70,s and 80,s me and several other kids would leave home with Rifles and Shotguns walk across town then a mile to Moutain hunt most of the day walk back to town and stop at the local grogery store with our guns buy somthing to snack on and drink and it didn't bother anyone . Have we progressed so far as a Nation that there is something wrong with that type of entertainment for our kids .

When I was a kid I did the same thing with a 22 or a shotgun. I knew the good people at the store and they knew me. The guns were unloaded as I had been taught. This is a bit different than that.

If I thought I needed my AR15 to go have coffee at the coffee shop I would move away from that place. If I felt that I had to do this type thing in support of my rights I would also feel the need to go in shout obscenities based on my right to free speech. How would that last part go over?

IMHO, there is a line you can't see but it's there. It's based upon good common sense which you displayed back in your day by not leaving your hunting gear outside when on the way home from a hunting trip. This is different, this is forced compliance with my/me/I/self type thinking and it's not going to turn out good in the end.

[eldermike]

The NRA stated that it was a staffer's opinion and not the policy of the NRA. I find it very odd that gun people believe the anti-rights MSM. All the MSM had to do was call the NRA for clarification on their position. The MSM has lost so much "gun credibility" that if they said "Guns shoot bullets" I would have to double check.

That's a good point.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by tomrkba

The NRA stated that it was a staffer's opinion and not the policy of the NRA.

C'mon, I don't believe that for a second and I can't see how anyone else can either. It's obviously a story concocted to cover up the fact that they changed their minds after they ticked off some open carry activists with that statement. And that's sad, because that statement made a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by tomrkba

I find it very odd that gun people believe the anti-rights MSM.

I have no idea what you're referring to here. I ignore everything the MSM says about guns. My opinions are my own and aren't influenced by the MSM.

[SocialAnarchist]

Theohazard

So we are now going to pick and choose which rights in which manner are appropriate.

[Tom Servo]

The MSM has lost so much "gun credibility" that if they said "Guns shoot bullets" I would have to double check.

It doesn't matter whether or not they have credibility with us; it matters whether they have credibility with Joe American on the Couch. And they're rapidly building that.

So we are now going to pick and choose which rights in which manner are appropriate.

We've always done that. Time, place, and manner matter, thus eldermike's example about shouting profanities.

Frankly, this foolishness in Texas has nothing to do with exercising rights. It's about grim exhibitionism.1

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by SocialAnarchist

Exercising a right is not necessarily a good thing.

AM I the only one who is appalled by the above statement?...

You might be one of the only ones. I certainly am not appalled. With rights come responsibilities.

Just because one may have the legal right to do something doesn't make doing it always wise, respectful, appropriate, polite, useful, etc. And one may do something without there being adverse legal consequences, but there could still be adverse social consequences. You have the legal right to show up for a job interview wearing a tank top and flip-flops, but there's a good chance you won't get the job simply because of how you dressed.

I believe it was John Adams who said:

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

At least in John Adam's day a moral and religious person could be expected to exercise some judgment, restraint and self control in his conduct.

Originally Posted by SocialAnarchist

...So we are now going to pick and choose which rights in which manner are appropriate.

Yes, that's what exercising judgment, restraint and self control means.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by SocialAnarchist

Theohazard

So we are now going to pick and choose which rights in which manner are appropriate.

Of course! That's called common sense! Every single day I choose which rights I want to exercise based on what's appropriate. I have the right to walk down the street wearing a toga while making out with my mother-in-law and smoking peanut butter, but that would hardly be appropriate.

I completely support the right for people to open carry long guns; there are situations where it's appropriate and I don't think it should be made illegal at all. But when people abuse that right by being completely in-your-face during these protests, that doesn't help anyone. And it will only help us lose that right.

There's definitely a place for protests, but when certain kinds of protests backfire and cause us to lose rights, it doesn't make sense to continue them. And as gun people, we should be the ones to self-regulate and figure out which actions are hurting our cause, because otherwise we're just encouraging the government to come do it for us, and they don't have a good track record with that. I'm going to use common sense and choose what actions I think are appropriate given the circumstances, and it would be nice if others did too.

So is what you're saying that it's a good idea to exercise your rights in a way that will inevitably get them taken away? Sure, let's all carry our ARs everywhere we go! After all, it's our right! Let's keep doing it no matter how many stores ban guns or how many politicians try to pass laws to ban open carry!

SocialAnarchist, from your previous posts you looked like a reasonable guy. Previously you acted like you agreed that these protests were hurting the open-carry cause. So what changed? Why do you think they're a good idea all of a sudden?

[Theohazard]

I think the main problem with this debate is that some people just can't seem to figure out that just because we think something is a bad idea and is inappropriate, that doesn't mean we think it should be made illegal.

[eldermike]

Frank, thanks for adding the John Adams quote, that says what needs to be said.

It's a guess but aren't most laws based upon the actions of a very few people.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We are close to a close when we start insulting each other.

Since this is an important topic - we will let it run for a bit but dial it back.

[motorhead0922]

Full disclosure: I do not advocate carrying long guns into Target.

However, I have seen dozens of posts here stating that "common sense" indicates one thing or another. You better be careful with that; Barack Obama and many others use the same "common sense" argument to try to relieve us of out 2nd amendment rights.

[zincwarrior]

The difference is of course, is that the people arguing common sense on this thread are not seeking to make something illegal based on that common sense, only that people with brains shouldn't do that.

I have the legal right to walk down the street in my underwear and wearing a rubber chicken for a hat. That doesn't mean I should.