Buying a rifle out of state

rich2774 · October 2, 2011, 08:02 AM

I'm trying to purchase a rifle from a non ffl in PA. I live in NYC I have a NYC rifle shotgun permit. I wanted to drive to PA and do a face to face transaction to save the shipping and ffl fees its about a 11/2 drive. The guy in PA said because I live out of state It would have to be shipped to an ffl in NY does anybody no if he is correct. I know I can purchase a rifle in the cabala's in PA. Thanks

cecILL · October 2, 2011, 08:14 AM

Yes, you'll have to ship to an FFL.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 2, 2011, 12:33 PM

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...ensed-transfer

Look at question #2 (emphasis added):

Quote:

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Cabela's is a licensee (FFL). A face-to-face sale is not from a licensee at their premises.

Mobuck · October 2, 2011, 07:13 PM

It is legal to buy a long gun in a contiguous state.

dogtown tom · October 2, 2011, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Mobuck It is legal to buy a long gun in a contiguous state.

Sure it is......its also legal to purchase a long gun in a noncontigious state

.
The "contigious state" restriction on long gun purchases ended twenty five years ago (1986).

brickeyee · October 3, 2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

It is legal to buy a long gun in a contiguous state.

The contiguous state law went away in 1986 (though some state laws are a problem), but you MUST use an FFL.

For a long gun the FFL can be in either state, but if it is in the sellers state (and NOT the buyers) the laws of both states must be followed (and this can run into problems depending on the state laws).

If the FFL is in the buyers state only that state's laws apply to the sale.

LaCane · October 3, 2011, 07:47 PM

Scenerio; Joe lives in Texas. Bill lives in Kansas. Joe drives to Kansas and meets Bill at a gun store in Kansas. Bill sells his rifle to the gun store owner for $500.00, who then sells the rifle to Joe for $525.00. Both Joe and Bill can legally purchase a firearm in their own respective states (no criminal history, ect. that would prohibit them from otherwise buying a gun). Would this be considered a legal transaction?

**Frank Ettin** · October 3, 2011, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaCane

Scenerio; Joe lives in Texas. Bill lives in Kansas. Joe drives to Kansas and meets Bill at a gun store in Kansas. Bill sells his rifle to the gun store owner for $500.00, who then sells the rifle to Joe for $525.00. Both Joe and Bill can legally purchase a firearm in their own respective states (no criminal history, ect. that would prohibit them from otherwise buying a gun). Would this be considered a legal transaction?

Bill doesn't have to "sell" the gun to the gun store.

If the FFL is agreeable, the FFL received the gun from Bill for the purposes of transferring the gun to Joe. The FFL does whatever paperwork he needs to and then effects the transfer to Joe, observing all the usual formalities, e. g., having Joe fill out the 4473, doing the NICS check and anything else required. Of course, Bill and Joe have to agree on the price of the rifle, there needs to be an agreement with the FFL about his fee for going through all the rigmarole, and Bill and Joe have to agree which one will pay the FFL's fee.

natman · October 4, 2011, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Buying a rifle out of state
I'm trying to purchase a rifle from a non ffl in PA. I live in NYC I have a NYC rifle shotgun permit. I wanted to drive to PA and do a face to face transaction to save the shipping and ffl fees its about a 11/2 drive. The guy in PA said because I live out of state It would have to be shipped to an ffl in NY does anybody no if he is correct. I know I can purchase a rifle in the cabala's in PA. Thanks

Shipping the rifle to a NY FFL is one way to go and probably the easiest.

Having you and the seller do a private party transfer at a PA FFL is possible **IF** it's legal according to BOTH PA and NY/NYC law. Be sure to contact the PA FFL well in advance to confirm that the PA FFL is willing to do it.

I'd take a close look at the cost of gas for a three hour round trip + the cost of three hours of your time vs shipping.

TheNatureBoy · October 4, 2011, 04:53 AM

Yes it is legal to purchase a rifle out of state. I just purchased one from a gun shop in Charlotte, Nc and I live in Virginia. Was attempting to purchase the same rifle from a shop in Arizona but couldn't get the FFL stuff together. Websites like Gunsamerica.com and others do this regularly.

LaCane · October 4, 2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaCane
Scenerio; Joe lives in Texas. Bill lives in Kansas. Joe drives to Kansas and meets Bill at a gun store in Kansas. Bill sells his rifle to the gun store owner for $500.00, who then sells the rifle to Joe for $525.00. Both Joe and Bill can legally purchase a firearm in their own respective states (no criminal history, ect. that would prohibit them from otherwise buying a gun). Would this be considered a legal transaction?

Bill doesn't have to "sell" the gun to the gun store.

If the FFL is agreeable, the FFL received the gun from Bill for the purposes of transferring the gun to Joe. The FFL does whatever paperwork he needs to and then effects the transfer to Joe, observing all the usual formalities, e. g., having Joe fill out the 4473, doing the NICS check and anything else required. Of course, Bill and Joe have to agree on the price of the rifle, there needs to be an agreement with the FFL about his fee for going through all the rigmarole, and Bill and Joe have to agree which one will pay the FFL's fee
I was under the impression that in order for a non licensed individual to purchase a rifle in a state other than his own, he would have to "purchase" the rifle from an FFL dealer in that state. The simple "transfer" of the weapon between two non FFL holders could only take place in the purchasers own state and thru an FFL holder in that purchasers state. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of the law.

**Frank Ettin** · October 4, 2011, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaCane

...I was under the impression that in order for a non licensed individual to purchase a rifle in a state other than his own, he would have to "purchase" the rifle from an FFL dealer in that state. The simple "transfer" of the weapon between two non FFL holders could only take place in the purchasers own state and thru an FFL holder in that purchasers state. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of the law.

Not quite right. See 18 USC 922(b)(3) (emphasis added):

Quote:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver -

...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States ...

csmsss · October 4, 2011, 10:11 PM

I've done it, and it's no big deal. You and the seller agree to a purchase price, plus however you arrange to handle HIS FFL fees. His FFL ships the firearm to your FFL, who handles the Form 4473, the NICS, and any other paperwork required by your state, and you pay your FFL whatever fees you mutually agreed to. Simple stuff.

**Aguila Blanca** · October 4, 2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich2774

I wanted to drive to PA and do a face to face transaction to save the shipping and ffl fees its about a 11/2 drive.

Unfortunately, that's not legal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rich2774

The guy in PA said because I live out of state It would have to be shipped to an ffl in NY does anybody no if he is correct.

Yes, he is correct.

October 2, 2011, 08:02 AM	#1
rich2774 Junior Member Join Date: August 26, 2008 Posts: 5	Buying a rifle out of state I'm trying to purchase a rifle from a non ffl in PA. I live in NYC I have a NYC rifle shotgun permit. I wanted to drive to PA and do a face to face transaction to save the shipping and ffl fees its about a 11/2 drive. The guy in PA said because I live out of state It would have to be shipped to an ffl in NY does anybody no if he is correct. I know I can purchase a rifle in the cabala's in PA. Thanks

October 2, 2011, 08:14 AM	#2
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	Yes, you'll have to ship to an FFL.

October 2, 2011, 07:13 PM	#4
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	It is legal to buy a long gun in a contiguous state.

October 3, 2011, 07:47 PM	#7
LaCane Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Posts: 28	Scenerio; Joe lives in Texas. Bill lives in Kansas. Joe drives to Kansas and meets Bill at a gun store in Kansas. Bill sells his rifle to the gun store owner for $500.00, who then sells the rifle to Joe for $525.00. Both Joe and Bill can legally purchase a firearm in their own respective states (no criminal history, ect. that would prohibit them from otherwise buying a gun). Would this be considered a legal transaction?

October 4, 2011, 04:53 AM	#10
TheNatureBoy Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2007 Posts: 1,204	Yes it is legal to purchase a rifle out of state. I just purchased one from a gun shop in Charlotte, Nc and I live in Virginia. Was attempting to purchase the same rifle from a shop in Arizona but couldn't get the FFL stuff together. Websites like Gunsamerica.com and others do this regularly.

October 4, 2011, 09:33 PM	#11
LaCane Member Join Date: October 2, 2011 Posts: 28	Quote: Originally Posted by LaCane Scenerio; Joe lives in Texas. Bill lives in Kansas. Joe drives to Kansas and meets Bill at a gun store in Kansas. Bill sells his rifle to the gun store owner for $500.00, who then sells the rifle to Joe for $525.00. Both Joe and Bill can legally purchase a firearm in their own respective states (no criminal history, ect. that would prohibit them from otherwise buying a gun). Would this be considered a legal transaction? Bill doesn't have to "sell" the gun to the gun store. If the FFL is agreeable, the FFL received the gun from Bill for the purposes of transferring the gun to Joe. The FFL does whatever paperwork he needs to and then effects the transfer to Joe, observing all the usual formalities, e. g., having Joe fill out the 4473, doing the NICS check and anything else required. Of course, Bill and Joe have to agree on the price of the rifle, there needs to be an agreement with the FFL about his fee for going through all the rigmarole, and Bill and Joe have to agree which one will pay the FFL's fee I was under the impression that in order for a non licensed individual to purchase a rifle in a state other than his own, he would have to "purchase" the rifle from an FFL dealer in that state. The simple "transfer" of the weapon between two non FFL holders could only take place in the purchasers own state and thru an FFL holder in that purchasers state. I may be wrong, but that is my understanding of the law.

October 4, 2011, 10:11 PM	#13
csmsss Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Orange, TX Posts: 3,078	I've done it, and it's no big deal. You and the seller agree to a purchase price, plus however you arrange to handle HIS FFL fees. His FFL ships the firearm to your FFL, who handles the Form 4473, the NICS, and any other paperwork required by your state, and you pay your FFL whatever fees you mutually agreed to. Simple stuff.