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Old June 19, 2018, 06:07 PM   #26
Reloadron
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"Sooo...do you still reload this ubiquitous cartridge? If so why? Quality? Hobby? To get away from the wife"?

I roll my own simply because I can tune my loads for specific rifles. Not being into "blasting ammo" I want accurate ammunition for each of my rifles including several .223 guns. I can build better than I can buy and for me that is what it's all about.

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Old June 19, 2018, 06:41 PM   #27
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I have 2 rifles that shoot 223/5.56. I also have two different loads of the same weight bullet. Both shoot sub MOA with their respective rifle. I keep about 1-2k of ammo for each of the rifles.

I can take some M855 and I am shooting 2-3 MOA with the occasional flier with both rifles. I do have to re-zero as the M855 shoots with a different impact point.
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Old June 19, 2018, 07:10 PM   #28
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Here you go
https://www.armorally.com/shop/hornady-55-fmj-bullets/
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If you have some time IMO this is worth a listen/watch but it takes a few minutes to really get going .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ&t=3265s or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
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Old June 19, 2018, 08:59 PM   #29
Charlie_98
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Reloading isn't about saving money. It's about using the best possible ammo.
In this case I don't agree...

Reloading is multi-faceted. I reload .41MAG because I can save a bucketload of money vs buying factory. I would guess my cartridges are as accurate or better than factory, but I don't really care.

I shoot primarily factory ammo in my M1a because it saves me time, although I will handload some amount of ammo for it because I have the components. The cost differential is about break-even, as is the accuracy.

I reload almost exclusively for my Savage bolt gun in .308... because accuracy in it is paramount... that's why I shoot it.

When I go out to run 500rds through my AR doing shooting drills, I don't need 'inth degree accuracy, so why would I waste my time punching out 500rds of handloads when I can buy excellent loaded ammo for roughly the same price? In this instance... the 'best possible ammo' is factory.
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Old June 19, 2018, 09:15 PM   #30
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Nope, haven’t even shot a .223 in probably 5 years. Lots of better options imo. Calibers that are better performers or cheaper to shoot(if you have the brass) abound.
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Old June 19, 2018, 10:32 PM   #31
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You cannot reload cheaper than you can buy cheap .223/5.56 ammo but if you want match grade ammo you can't afford to not reload. Well, you can but even the best 77gr Sig Match Grade ammo is not as consistent as a hand load because it's still one size fits all and powder changes from lot to lot and yes, it can be enough to make a difference in competition shooting.

Load development takes time and it's not just how much powder you use, how many grains the bullets are or what primers you use, it's also correct bullet length, correct head space, etc.. Hand loading is all about matching the ammo to the rifle and there's really no other reason to do it.

That said, my battle rattle gun get's whatever's on sale, my precision semi-auto gets the hand loads.
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Old June 20, 2018, 05:18 AM   #32
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I don't know about you all, but it's been said you don't actually save money by reloading. You shoot more. I know i certainly do!
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Old June 20, 2018, 05:54 AM   #33
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I quit loading except for a few specific cartridges. I'm not shooting as much the last 4-5 years and have a considerable amount of ammo in storage. Most of the .223 I'm shooting these days is factory loaded.
In summer, I don't shoot .223 at all. My summer EDC AR is 5.45x39.
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Old June 20, 2018, 09:42 AM   #34
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In 1970 until about 2005 I went to a gun show every weekend some place . I always bought some 223/5.56 ammo some times only a 1,000 other times a lot more . Today I still have 400 to 500 LB. of the surplus stuff . The good old days when a 1,000 rouds of 5.56 was under 3 cents each .
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Old June 20, 2018, 12:01 PM   #35
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.223 cost

On the internet:
- Cheapest good quality .223 is $0.33 to $0.42 per round depending on volume.
- Good quality .223 match is $1.33 to $2.35 per round depending on volume.

At home:
- Reload 69 grain Sierra Matchking for $0.24 per round.
- Brass is free range pickup that is headstamp sorted, decapped, stainless steel pin tumbled, full length sized, etc.
- Cost is determined by bullet, primer, and powder expenses.
- Cost of reloading equipment investment is negligible based on long time ownership and use.

Conclusion: My reloading experience is relaxing and unhurried resulting in accurate ammunition that equals relaxing and unhurried 100 yard 5-round groups where the holes are touching.
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Old June 20, 2018, 01:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
The good old days when a 1,000 rouds of 5.56 was under 3 cents each
That's the truth. I see prices today and just have a hard time believing how much .223 ammo has increased in price. I have once fired commercial reloads I bought for $79.00 per 1000 rounds. I have new Israeli military 55 grain I bought at maybe $115.00 per 1000. All this was around 1998 right before I retired. Still have a few hundred rounds of the stuff; wish I had bought more.

I have the capability to reload .223 but seldom do unless for some varmint hunting and want HP ammo. One of the largest deer I ever harvested was with a 55 grain FMJ surplus while I was turkey hunting, thinking a FMJ would do little damage to a wild turkey [later proved wrong to my dismay]. I now carry a .22 Hornet along with my turkey shotgun for use when the turkey is out of shotgun range, and my calling skills are not sexy enough for the gobbler.
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Old June 20, 2018, 02:35 PM   #37
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Quote:
On the internet:
- Cheapest good quality .223 is $0.33 to $0.42 per round depending on volume.
- Good quality .223 match is $1.33 to $2.35 per round depending on volume.

At home:
- Reload 69 grain Sierra Matchking for $0.24 per round.
- Brass is free range pickup that is headstamp sorted, decapped, stainless steel pin tumbled, full length sized, etc.
- Cost is determined by bullet, primer, and powder expenses.
- Cost of reloading equipment investment is negligible based on long time ownership and use.

Conclusion: My reloading experience is relaxing and unhurried resulting in accurate ammunition that equals relaxing and unhurried 100 yard 5-round groups where the holes are touching.
This is also my take/experience. I do find bulk .223 tedious but I also don't shoot gobs of it either. My kids do when they go to the range, but that's not super-frequent.

Plus there are other advantages. I can get .223 loaded prices down to .20 cents per round that still has accuracy beating that of the more expensive bulk ammo. The bulk hornady SP spitzers can be found for .09, and they are capable of 1moa accuracy (slightly less, but not enough so that I would argue they are sub-moa) if all else is right. Look for sales on powder and primers, and do your part. You'll be hard pressed to find bulk ammo that's less than .30 per round that shoots moa, or isn't FMJ.

Further, I can take advantage of sales while still not spending gobs of money at one time. Best loaded ammo prices usually require you to buy at least a case of 1k rounds, and you're often dropping over $300. I can buy primers on sale a box or two at a time at Cabelas. Powder I can wait until Grafs or Midway has a reduced Hazmat fee, and subsequent sale, and stock up enough for a few thousand rounds for about $150 bucks. Grafs almost always has projectiles in lots of 250 or 500 these days for prices that are a per round rounding error to buying 1000 in bulk. So I can have components stocked up for years worth of shooting spending 50 bucks here, 100 bucks there.
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Old June 20, 2018, 02:40 PM   #38
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Your paying .09 a peice for bullets but still keeping your per roumd price to .24? What are the other components you are using? Im about .29 total with a .6.5c bullet.

Thats using CCI primers and benchmark powder.
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Old June 20, 2018, 06:29 PM   #39
Tuzo
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Hi Chainsaw

Cost recap per round:

$0.142 Sierra Matchking 69 gr bullet
$0.029 Winchester primer
$0.065 Varget or H4895 ~26 gr
$0.236 per round
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Old June 20, 2018, 08:00 PM   #40
Metal god
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Quote:
$0.142 Sierra Matchking 69 gr bullet
Where are you buying your 69gr smk for under $.15 a bullet . The best I can find is $.20 and sometimes $.19 but never under $.15 . You give me a link I'll buy that store out lol
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If you have some time IMO this is worth a listen/watch but it takes a few minutes to really get going .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ&t=3265s or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
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Old June 20, 2018, 08:22 PM   #41
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Assuming one reloads enough to buy slips of 5000 primers and powder in 8 lb quantities, even the premium priced military sensitivity spec primers for gas guns are about $0.04/each (Federal GM205MAR or CCI #41 from Graf & Sons; this is with $8 shipping and $10 hazmat fee currently) and powder about 0.08 (H335; appropriate for a 0.07 cent bullet and assuming you got it in the same order as the primers so the hazmat is shared) then with a 0.07 cent bullet, you should be at 19 cents before counting brass amortization. If your brass is free, gathered from the range (frequently the case with .223/5.56 brass), then there is none. If you get ten reloads out of new Starline brass, you're adding about 0.02 to that price.
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Old June 20, 2018, 09:34 PM   #42
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Call me cheap, but you do not need to use SMK, etc.

Midsouth is selling Hornady 55 gr bullets for $19 per 250, or $0.076 each. I bought 5k Tula 556M primers on my last Powder Valley order. Good thing because they are not available since the Russians invaded Crimea. I can't remember the exact price, but I believe it was under $100 ($0.02 each). I ordered a lot of powder at the same time, so the Hazmat was spread (still under $0.02). Surplus WC844 powder at $100 for 8 lbs., 26 grains is $0.046 per each. Add $0.008 for shipping/HazMat recovery

$0.076 55 FMJ bulk
$0.020 Tula primer
$0.046 WC844
$0.008 Allowance for freight recovery
-------------------
$0.150 per round or $3 for 20.

So yes, I can reload cheaper than bulk. But when that bulk is Norma USA new for $6.65 and you keep the brass, and save the time, done that, too.

But when it is just my choice, of what I want to reload, my costs can double to $6 for a box of 20.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...earchTerm=2267
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c.../223-remington
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Old June 20, 2018, 11:44 PM   #43
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Never got into reloading to save money, and as soon as I factory in my time I would be upside down, no matter the caliber. And if I'd factor in all my reloading gear and supplies, I would have to reload for well over 20 years to break even.

Reloading is my passion, and I do a lot of ballistics with different combinations, and always aim for quality.
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:04 AM   #44
Metal god
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Quote:
Call me cheap, but you do not need to use SMK, etc.
When I first started reloading I thought the same thing . My thought was work up a load with match components and see how well the firearm and I shot . Lets say that's a consistent 3/4 moa . Ok now I just load FMJ's and shoot 1.5 to 2 moa and who cares , I know I and the rifle can do better right ???? WRONG ! It took 1 or 2 times out with that mind set and me only being able to shoot 1.5moa+ to abandon that train of thought . If I'm not shooting moa or better at 300yds I'll pack up and leave because something is clearly wrong that day .

I have a fairly new 18" AR build that shoots Winchester 55gr FMJ-BT bullets I got at the gun show great . I'm talking .8moa 5 shot groups and 1.2moa 10 shot groups . None of my other AR's shoot any 55g FMJ-BT that well including my National match build . Not sure what it is about that bullet and that barrel but they love each other lol . To top it off , the barrel is a $99 PSA barrel that I had no expectations of it shooting that well . It shoots SMK's better but not really much better . Needless to say those bullets are set aside for that rifle now and I only have about 800 left . :-(


Anyways , I want to be cheap but my ego wont let me
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Tolerate- allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of something that one does not necessarily like or agree with , without interference.
If you have some time IMO this is worth a listen/watch but it takes a few minutes to really get going .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ&t=3265s or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
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Old June 21, 2018, 12:48 AM   #45
Marco Califo
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I thought that the topic was, "How cheap can you load cheap ammo?" as opposed to buying cheap loaded ammo. Please reread the last two sentences of my last post. I "can" and "have" done it. I found it to be accurate enough to hit 1" red dots at 100 yds fairly consistently. They make the same noise on steel plate targets as cheap bulk.
I buy quality bulk ammo rather than making my own cheaper, if I am busy at work for example.
I prefer to load quality ammunition to meet my needs, which are generally not available as loaded.
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Old June 21, 2018, 01:09 AM   #46
Metal god
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Marco , sorry if I came off like I was challenging your last post , I was not . Only pointing out how I once thought shooting cheap factory ammo would be totally cool for me . It turned out I was unwilling to except the larger groups on average I got with the cheap factory ammo . I just used your quote as a starting point to point out my inability to except cheap ammo . It had nothing to do with anything you wrote specifically .
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Tolerate- allow the existence, occurrence, or practice of something that one does not necessarily like or agree with , without interference.
If you have some time IMO this is worth a listen/watch but it takes a few minutes to really get going .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USg3NR76XpQ&t=3265s or a picture of Mohamed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VwpwP_fIqY
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Old June 21, 2018, 05:31 AM   #47
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I never factor time into it - I'd waste that time doing something dumb like watching movies or playing video games. As for cost, I don't have the mold for the 5.56mm yet, using some given to me, and powder coating them myself. As soon as I can get the mold I'll be casting my own. With friends that like to shoot my guns and ammo, and like to help buying components, I am reloading right now for the cost of the electricity to run the lead pot.
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Old June 21, 2018, 02:18 PM   #48
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Reply to Metal god

The cost of 69 gr Matchking bullets is from the price label on 10 boxes of Sierra bullets I bought several years ago.

Latest internet price at Cabela's is $0.239 per bullet for a box of 500. My, how cost has inflated!

I am behind the times and should update my figures.
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Old June 22, 2018, 10:15 PM   #49
5whiskey
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Quote:
I never factor time into it - I'd waste that time doing something dumb like watching movies or playing video games.
See i factor my time. If I was anal about it, 223 still would be barely worth reloading. I have a family/young kids at home and my spare time is limited. I enjoy reloading... But some of it is tedious and not as worth it. 45 and even 9mms is worth my time... Loading with cast. Loading 9mm i figure im getting paid 15 bucks an hour to do my hobby (i save .10 per round over bulk ammo, and can load 150 an hour). With 45 I'm almost at 20 bucks an hour. 357? Probably closer to 30. 223? Like 7 bucks an hour until we figure in that anything that shoots as well as my reloads are .50 a round. Then I'm up North of 15 bucks an hour again.
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Old June 23, 2018, 08:01 AM   #50
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Reloading is an addiction. Yeah I reload .223. I even single stage for ARs.




IMR 4320 .095
CCI pr. .03
Hornady 55g spire. .10
Brass. .00
------------------------------

.125/round

If you can buy then cheaper than that I wouldn't reload either.
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