odd high flier with rifle

[dvdcrr]

I've got a wood stocked bolt action centerfire hunting rifle. I have tried two loads. One was factory and grouped about 2" at 110 yds. Recently tried a trusted handload. The rifle predictably will group three within an inch and then will throw an odd flier 1-1.5" high at 100 yds. As high as four inches at 200 yds. That is not acceptable. The rifle is factory original. Is it me? Do I need to try a new load? Or is it something with the rifle setup? I do not want to float the barrel, I just want to keep it factory original. When the barrel gets warm, it will still shoot to the same POI. But that ugly flier will show itself about one of every four shots. The flier is perfectly centered. It is not vertical stringing to the best of my knowledge.
I am thinking I will try a different scope and load.

[BJung]

I assume you are shooting from the bench. Is your rifle resting on the same place?

[SIGSHR]

Have you checked the screws? Also how was the rifle stored ?

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by SIGSHR

Have you checked the screws? Also how was the rifle stored ?

This, the first place I would look is to the action screws and bedding.

[ligonierbill]

I certainly wouldn't blame the scope. Your shooting is too consistent. In addition to the action screws (good advice) check the barrel channel for high spots. You don't have to free float the barrel, but any stock contact should be consistent. I inherited Dad's Rem 700 7mm Mag, and it benefited greatly from a little coarse sandpaper wrapped around a dowel.

Regards trying a different load, have at it, and good luck. We reloaders spend a lot of time and effort "tuning" our loads. Frankly, the behavior you are observing is not at all uncommon for a hunting rifle. I have some that do better, some that do not. If you can hit the proverbial pie plate every time at your maximum range, and that is completely your choice, you're good.

[FrankenMauser]

I wouldn't be surprised if it is a parallax or cheek weld issue.


But, I do have a lever action that is predictable with its flyer.
.444 Marlin.
First shot goes 1-3/4" high at 100 yards.
The rest go through the same hole. (~3/4" group with .43 caliber bullets means one ragged hole).

I have never figured out why.
It doesn't matter how I grip it, how I rest it, what screw tension is, whether the fore-stock is removed, how I change cheek weld, how may or how few rounds are in the magazine.
It just does it.
But it does it every time. So, it's easy to predict.

[Erno86]

I tend to speculate...that not only the barrel is heating up after the third shot, but your receiver is heating up as well; which --- in some rifles --- make's the group start to string.

May I suggest shooting a three shot group at a fairly rapid pace --- before the receiver starts to heat up. And I would personally feel satisfied with a tight 3 shot group from a hunting rifle, even though it might shoot a flyer with a fourth shot from a hot barrel and receiver.

[tango1niner]

Sounds like barrel heating up. Try a fifth shot and see where that goes. If the 5th is higher yet I would consider that vertical stringing.

[tango1niner]

FrankenMauser, would that first shot be from a clean barrel?

[rwilson452]

I had a Remington 700 VLS that would shoot the first 4 in a string. Starting out a 3" at 7 o'clock. The 4th would be dead on my zero every shot after that up to about 18 shots would group under .28 MOA. Sometimes if the wind behaved I could shoot .23-.22 groups. it didn't like to be real clean or dirty. So when I was going out looking for Mr. woodchuck I would go to the range a shoot off 4 rounds. Yes, when I got home I would get the barrel very clean just in case I couldn't go shooting for a long time. OK, maybe too clean. I'm a clean barrel nut.

PS: Best first shot, Dead chuck at 525 yards.

Another Add: For those that don't knpw what a woodchuck is, Think Groundhog, (Marmota monax)

[ghbucky]

Recently tried a trusted handload.

Another thought is to look at your load instead of the rifle. Are you using matched headstamps and are they trimmed to the same length, etc.

[dvdcrr]

a lot of good suggestions here and I appreciate it.

[pete2]

3 shot 1" groups every time for a hunting rifle is a wonderful thing. If it will do this it's great in my book. Even 1-1/2" is good enough for a deer rifle.

[T. O'Heir]

An odd flier 1-1.5" high is most likely you. Doesn't take much of a tic, caused by numerous things, do cause a flier.
It could also be a wee, tiny, imperfection in the bullet(a slight out of roundness or slight difference in weight, that particular case or even a slight puff of wind.
What bullet matters. So does the load. And how fast you're shooting.
Three rounds then a flier usually indicates the barrel is touching the stock when its hot. That does not mean you need to float the barrel. That guarantees nothing. It's not hard to do, shoot and see what happens. Putting a pressure point back in is easy too. Might be an idea to do that anyway to make it consistent.
You need to look at the bedding though. And seal the barrel channel. Any wood sealer found in a hardware store will do.
The scope or load it is not. A scope does nothing for accuracy. They only allow you to see the target better. Assuming all the screws are tight, of course. Loose screws would mean no group. You have that.
"...a trusted hand load..." Hand loads are for one particular rifle only. They are not universal. Every rifle will shoot every load differently. However, you really need to work up the load for every individual rifle. I don't think the load is the issue in this case though.
Mind you, a stock hunting rifle that shoots relatively consistent 2" groups with 2 flavours of ammo is a rifle you really should just leave alone. Lotta guys dream about rifles like that.

[603Country]

I’d try some more loads and I’d free float the barrel. If, however, the rifle continues to throw fliers and it isn’t user error, I’d have no use for it. If I can’t trust it for consistent accuracy when it matters, I don’t want it.

Last year there was a fellow on another forum that had a rifle to sell or trade. It was just exactly what my brother wanted. The guy had a rifle that was and is known to be accurate, but he could not get his choice of bullets to group decently. My brother had a rifle the guy wanted and did the rifle swap and brought the ‘new’ rifle to me to scope it and find a good load. It was a 6.5 CM and I was fond of the 120 gr Nosler BT for that caliber and for my 260. Didn’t take long and I found a super accurate load. The rifle just needed a different bullet and powder to be super accurate.

And right now I have a 223 that does not like the bullet I want to shoot. A new barrel is enroute.

Float the barrel. Try new loads. If the OP likes Nosler bullets, their recommended accuracy loads have been very close to what I wind up using.

[FrankenMauser]

FrankenMauser, would that first shot be from a clean barrel?

Clean, dirty, hot, cold.
Always high.

[dvdcrr]

OK, internal mag box was assembled in such a way as to create binding. New mounts new rings, will try a new scope and report back.

[Bart B.]

When I started shooting highpower rifle matches, my first shot at 500 or 600 yards slung up in prone always went about 2 MOA out at 10 to 11 o'clock. The remaining 19 shots were on call.

The team coach told me I was putting the stock buttplate lower in my shoulder than the others. Sure enough, when the rifle's butt was properly shouldered the same for each shot, all bullets went to call.

I've seen this happen with people shooting the rifle from benchrest positions.

[dvdcrr]

i think you are right.

[dvdcrr]

This is a Rem 700. I switched loads and I think
it helped. I had no fliers in a five shot group.

[dvdcrr]

I dont even know why I screw around. I went back got my Weatherby Mark V. It is a Weatherguard rifle with a synthetic stock similar to H&S. It seems bedded to the stock ( I couldnt pull them apart). It is free floated. The trigger is 100% creep free, light, deep curve and super wide. It has a "W" etched in at least 500 pt. font on the front of the trigger. That is how wide it is. The trigger is so wide, Patton's 3rd Army could have used it to cross the Rhine. (Well OK not QUITE that wide.) And the stock design fits me well, also having the correct LOP for me. It has a Leupold scope (pre "i" generation) with LRD. This rifle is stone cold "ON". All the time. Like I said, I don't even know why I mess with other rifles.

[stagpanther]

I dont even know why I screw around. I went back got my Weatherby Mark V. It is a Weatherguard rifle with a synthetic stock similar to H&S. It seems bedded to the stock ( I couldnt pull them apart). It is free floated. And the stock design fits me well, also having the correct LOP for me. It has a Leupold scope (pre "i" generation) with LRD. This rifle is stone cold "ON". All the time. Like I said, I don't even know why I mess with other rifles.

What cartridge? A higher-power Weatherby cartridge is a different thing from non-weatherby cartridges.

[ammo.crafter]

Most likely are being stressed at the final shot and pressuring yourself.

Separate your brass by manufacturer, number of times reloaded, same rifle shot through, trim to exact same OAL, chamfer in and out, weigh each shell, same primer batch, same bullet manufacturer, weigh each, etc.

Handload each round by manual scale measurement and assemble on a single stage press.

[Rangerrich99]

Have you tried having someone else shoot it? If you have a friend that's at least as good/better a shot as you are and they repeat your issue, it's probably the gun/round. If not, it's probably you.