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Old May 6, 2019, 06:22 AM   #1
rebs
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load development range ?

at what range do you guys do your load development ?
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Old May 6, 2019, 07:42 AM   #2
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Ideally, 100 Yards. But, depending on the time of year I may be limited to the 50 Yards limit of my local indoor range. In that case I'll work them up at 50, then take them out to 100 when the weather gets more agreeable.
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Old May 6, 2019, 07:48 AM   #3
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Depends on the application. If I'm going for legit sub-moa I like to conduct an initial test at 100 yards. Subsequent refinement loadings will usually be tested at 200 on a calm day. Why? I just do. 200 is not so far that environmental factors start playing heck with your results, but at the same time it is far enough for me to test loads at a more standard distance for me (I rarely shoot rifles that I spend time actually working a load up for closer than 200).

For gas gun fodder where good enough for government work is a thing, 100 yards. If I can hold moa (or near it) there for your standard AR I'm good with it. That's better than most factory ammo will get you, and better than any inexpensive bulk ammo.
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Old May 6, 2019, 08:22 AM   #4
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Generally at the 100 yrd line and then moving out to the 200 yard line. That's as good as it gets since my local outdoor range only goes to 200 yards.

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Old May 6, 2019, 08:56 AM   #5
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100 to find nodes and get velocity data and seating depth for best grouping

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/thr...yards.3814361/

if it won't shoot well at 100 it sure as heck does not get any better stretching it out
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Old May 6, 2019, 10:36 AM   #6
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Short range stuff (< 100 yd): Whatever range it is intended to be used at.

Longer range: Typically 100 yards. Once good at 100 yards, I'll move out to whatever else is available and applicable, to verify drop and play with the wind. - From 200 to 1,000+ yards, depending upon location/facility/cartridge/rifle/intent.
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Old May 6, 2019, 11:03 AM   #7
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I dunno. I can't ever hit much at 100 yards with my 1911s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rebs
at what range do you guys do your load development ?
Should we assume that you're asking about centerfire rifle?
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Old May 6, 2019, 11:28 AM   #8
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For rifle, Randolf Constantine recommended 300 yards as giving you enough range to see bullet drop variation with MV variation and for wind not to be unmanageable if you pick the right time of day. Most of us are stuck with 100 yards, however. At that range the MV spread won't have much effect on vertical point of impact and drift that is opening groups up doesn't have a lot of time to act, so resolving changes in group size becomes difficult, making something like Dan Newberry's OCW method more effective at locating nodes. You can, at that range, use your chronograph to find velocity flat spots to get starting points for firing Newberry round robins with fewer rounds in them, and you can still tell a bughole from a less perfect load. So you can do the development anywhere, provided you compensate. At 300 yards the old Audette ladder works and if you have found velocity nodes, it, too, can be shortened for fine tuning the loads.

For the 1911 it is 50 yards for me, same as the standard NRA slow fire target.
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Old May 6, 2019, 11:38 AM   #9
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I wish I could do at least 200 yards regularly but that is out in the winter (or so tough as not to be too feasible)

Mostly I plonk at 100.

We have a 300 meter range but you need a some kind of wheels to get down and back otherwise you kill yourself walking!

I plan on getting back to the 200 and 300 meter range now that summer is here.

Our local 100 has a covered shed and heaters. Its just enough that you can shoot down to 5 degrees ok (granted I put on my pipeline down pants) and a glove on the left hand and sometimes a glove with the trigger finger cut off on the right.

Some layers as well though the pants help a lot keeping heat in the furnace.
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Old May 6, 2019, 01:22 PM   #10
T. O'Heir
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Shoot at 100, off a solid rest, for group only. And consistency is more important than group size.
Once you have a group you can sight in based on ballistics tables. Most cartridges' bullets, especially deer cartridges, drop like bricks past 300 yards.
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Old May 6, 2019, 02:55 PM   #11
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Without more info it's hard to make a recommendation. For my woods rifles, I sight them in at 75 yards and test my loads at the same range. For my rifles that I think I'd be shooting longer distances, I sight in and test at 100 yards at first then 200 to verify if I get the chance.

I have a .300 Blackout single shot that I shoot mostly cast bullets from it at subsonic speeds. I test and sight it in for 30 yards like I do with my handguns...

Tony
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Old May 6, 2019, 03:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
For rifle, Randolf Constantine recommended 300 yards as giving you enough range to see bullet drop variation with MV variation
That's been part of my belief in refining at 200 yards, is that vertical stringing (a possible indicator of higher velocity S/D) would be more apparent than at 100. Been doing this since before I ever dreamed of having access to a chrono.

FWIW, I've never really had anything that shot well at 100 to turn to crap at 200+ so my old habit apparently serves no real purpose. Further, I've actually had a rifle I could shoot far better groups at 300 yards than I could at 100 yards (better as measured in MOA). The more I've researched it, the more I believe it is from non-adjustable scope parallax on that rifle though I seem to believe I had similar experience with a different scope. I have often thought of setting up Bryan Litz's experiment on converging groups. That has never been proven. That I used to believe in but no longer do but it would be awesome if I was the first to prove it as a real phenomena
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Old May 6, 2019, 05:04 PM   #13
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I develop loads under conditions I intend to use them. For my pistol shot loads, that may be a few feet. For long range Varmint loads, could be hundreds of yards.
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Old May 6, 2019, 05:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rebs View Post
at what range do you guys do your load development ?
what gun?
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Old May 7, 2019, 02:16 AM   #15
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For rifle, i start at 100 yards.
I've had powder/bullet combos that just gave me a ragged hole at 100 yards.
If you get that, do test again at 200 yards.

For pistol i use 25 yards.
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Old May 7, 2019, 06:52 AM   #16
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Scoped rifle loads at 100 yds to start, then checked at increasing distances. If a load doesn't do as well as expected at 100 yds, may check it again out to 200/300 yds, especially when at edge of rifle twist/bullet weight. Will start on paper to sight in, but rapidly transition to steel targets.

Pistol loads are tested at 25 yds, but my eyesight ain't getting any better.
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Old May 7, 2019, 08:29 AM   #17
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the rifle is a 223 bolt gun
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Old May 7, 2019, 03:06 PM   #18
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I start all my tests at 100 yards , when I get the tightest group consistently I then brought it to 200 yards , only difference it shot rwo inchec lower if I did my part , the further out you see how important shooting form is keeping the crosshairs on target . You may get one ragged hole at 100 not so easy at 200 . Don't try a get unrealistic groups at longer ranges . Makes shooting more enjoyable .
PS: I'm shooting at 200 yards only with a 308 with wind 5 - 10 mph , 223 when shooting for tight groups do it on a day with perfect wind conditions . Reading the wind is another art . Wind will definitely make that perfect load a nightmare.

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Old May 7, 2019, 03:33 PM   #19
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Once you get out past 300 yard (though it can affect things short of that with right wind velocity and angle) then it is the wind and even you speed deviation.

Ergo, 300 is as far out as I want to go. Not interested in the long range game though will try the 1000 yard range up North some day just to have done it.
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Old May 7, 2019, 04:42 PM   #20
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Never went past 200 , that's the maximum distance for ranges in my area . For those who shoot 300 what rifle , caliber and group size are you getting at that distance. I'd like to know your 100 , 200 and 300 yard groups and the changes you made to get them .
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Old May 9, 2019, 08:36 AM   #21
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Depending on the barrel muzzle axis vertical vibration frequency and the angle bullets leave above the LOS, groups at short ranges can be bigger in MOA than those at longer ranges. If all bullets leave on the muzzle axis up swing, slower ones depart at higher angles to the LOS than faster ones. Vibration frequency is the same for every shot; bullet barrel time to exit changes inversley with muzzle velocity.

This is called positive compensation. Best bullet exit point is near the peak on the upswing. Some use an adjustable tuning weight at the muzzle to change its vibrating frequency. Adjusting charge weight changes barrel time. Bryan Litz's stand on converging groups was disproved decades ago. And every time today by folks adjusting barrel tuners to get best compensation for bullet drop versus LOF angle.

I think it is best to test at the ranges you will use.
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Old May 9, 2019, 11:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir View Post
Most cartridges' bullets, especially deer cartridges, drop like bricks past 300 yards.
What is the drop rate for bullets and bricks for the first 2 seconds of fall?
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Old May 9, 2019, 11:31 AM   #23
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Glad your back , the reason I asked was because I shoot only at 200 yards , when testing at 100 yards and squeezing out the tightest group I could shoot I moved to 200 yards , grouped still tight .5 on the average . I only had to adjust for hight 2" , if I could go longer I'm pretty sure my charge would have to increase . I'm shooting 308 with a 168 MK over 40.8 gr.of IMR4064 only shoot in good condition no more then 10 mph. Shooting a 223 I don't think you could get away with shooting with a light charge like I do on the low end of the scale .
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Old May 9, 2019, 12:57 PM   #24
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I was going to point out T. O'Heir is correct. If you took a bullet and a brick up the leaning tower of Pisa and dropped them both at the same time, they would hit the ground at the same time.

Re 200 v. 300, Randolf Constantine said Crieghton Audette used 200 yards. He just felt the resolution of the resulting hole location was clearer and easier to evaluate accurately at 300.
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Old May 9, 2019, 01:18 PM   #25
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Note the fact that smallbore 22 rimfire rifles often have tuners to change muzzle axis frequency to one setting for 50 yards and another for 100. Same lot of ammo used at both ranges.

http://www.geoffrey-kolbe.com/articl...g_a_barrel.htm

Frequency goes up/higher as the tuning weight moves back, down/lower if moved forward.
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