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Old July 20, 2011, 01:59 PM   #1
ZVP
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How come you never hear of a Winchester '94 being used in CAS?

The '94 did come in .45 Long Colt and it is a reliable rifle, so why is it overlooked?
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Old July 20, 2011, 02:06 PM   #2
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Probably because it is a 'long' action with clunky mechanics and would be slow to operate.
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Old July 20, 2011, 03:35 PM   #3
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They don't operate well with pistol length cartridges.
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Old July 20, 2011, 10:30 PM   #4
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I used a '94 in .45 Colt, it's a good gun if cycled briskly. A great gun if you shoot for fun. If you want to win at any cost, you need a short throw rifle in .38 loaded to about 400 FPS, so the bullets can be watched to the target....

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Old July 21, 2011, 08:35 AM   #5
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Not the case anymore. Too light gives no feedback and chances a squib that truly stops the speedster. A moderate load that gets the bullet down range is a faster load.
The speedsters also discovered that too light a load does not make enough impact on the target for the spotters to reliably call them hits.
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Old July 21, 2011, 11:05 AM   #6
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I agree with Noz. Recoil in your rifle is not what will slow you down. Worryin' about squibs will.

I load my .38's to about 775-800 fps and can cycle my '66 as fast as about anybody......now whether I hit anything is another story....

I own a '94 and the clunky levering and the trigger safety (I'm not really sure what you call it, but the lever has to be fully up to engage the little de-tent and free up the trigger) makes it less than optimal for speed. It's in 30-30 (which also isn't SASS legal for match play), but it wouldn't matter if it were in a pistol caliber -- the levering is clunky and slow. I started in SASS with a '92 (and still have it) and I could shoot that rifle probably twice as fast as the '94 because of the levering and de-tent.
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Old July 21, 2011, 02:50 PM   #7
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I don't know about "cowboy" shooting, but I have an 1894 Winchester in .30-30 and it's the best brush gun I have. It's slick as can be too. I've killed more deer with that gun than any other that I own. Just saying.
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Old July 21, 2011, 03:33 PM   #8
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Big difference in cycling the action fast enough to put ten rounds on five targets in less than 10 seconds and levering one round into the chamber after you get situated in your tree stand.
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Old July 21, 2011, 06:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
I don't know about "cowboy" shooting, but I have an 1894 Winchester in .30-30 and it's the best brush gun I have
Read the FIRST SENTENCE AGAIN. I never said there wasn't, just that there isn't anything "clunky" or "slow" about mine. Also, I have never been in a tree stand in my life.

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Old July 21, 2011, 07:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
there isn't anything "clunky" or "slow" about mine.
I have a Winchester 30-30 and compared to a 92 it is slow and clunky.
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Old July 21, 2011, 07:28 PM   #11
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Wow-snappy group....
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Old July 21, 2011, 07:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
I have a Winchester 30-30 and compared to a 92 it is slow and clunky
I just don't see it. You want "clunky", have you ever shot an 1895 Winchester? I love mine but, that is a "clunky" gun.
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Old July 21, 2011, 07:49 PM   #13
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MJN I'm not raggin on you. I'm sure to you your Winny is smooth as silk. Mine is smooth for a 94 but my 92 is buttery smooth. After shooting it my 94 drags and hitches and is rough as a cob.
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Old July 21, 2011, 07:54 PM   #14
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MJN I'm not raggin on you. I'm sure to you your Winny is smooth as silk. Mine is smooth for a 94 but my 92 is buttery smooth. After shooting it my 94 drags and hitches and is rough as a cob.
I'm not offended, Hawg. It just doesn't feel "clunky" to me. I also have an 1892. I used to have an 1873 too. I don't see much difference between the "feel" of the 92 or the 94, at least with mine. The 73 was the smoothest of all of them. Wish I still had it.

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Old July 21, 2011, 09:46 PM   #15
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I did see that SASS has a class for the Model 94 in 30-30 for the long range shooting competition.
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Old July 21, 2011, 11:04 PM   #16
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Sorry MJN77, I got a little carried away with the font size. The OP wanted to know why the 94 wasnt used in CAS, not how good a brush gun it is. I've got a couple 94s that are excellent brush/hunting rifles. One of them is a 94 Classic with 24 inch Octagonal barrel that is dead accurate at 100-200 yards .......... if I don't shake too much. With that said, cycling both of them is like pushing a stick through a box of rocks comparey to my '66 carbine.
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Old July 21, 2011, 11:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Sorry MJN77, I got a little carried away with the font size
Sarcasm doesn't always transfer into type. Like I said, I do not know about "cowboy" shooting. I don't usually shoot for speed. Well, I've never been in a situation that called for it anyway.
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Old July 22, 2011, 10:13 AM   #18
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OK so that "Cowboy" 30-30 WCF ammo I saw is only intended for Sidematch action only. There is no way that the 30-30 could be used in regular competition?
I know that the '94 was offered in .45LC for several years but since the action is not as amooth as a '92, you're probablly better off to just get a '92 in .45LC.
Thanks for explaining all this! As a relative newbe, I am constantlly learning about the Sport!
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Old July 22, 2011, 10:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
OK so that "Cowboy" 30-30 WCF ammo I saw is only intended for Sidematch action only. There is no way that the 30-30 could be used in regular competition?
Correct.
Main match rifles must be of "pistol" caliber with lead bullets.
You can shoot a .25-20, too.

A lot of targets are of mild steel and anything more would chew them up and spatter worse.
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Old July 26, 2011, 09:12 AM   #20
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a long long time ago

when Luke was a lil lad winnies were good for huntin and the range work inotherwords occassional shooting cas brought to the sport more shots goin thru agun rifle or pistol that was designed winnies in particular had to be slicked up by a reputable smithy for faster slide and more action
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Old July 26, 2011, 09:38 AM   #21
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On those 30-30 matches, do they shoot fast or is it more of a target/hit the steel competition? I suppose the range is at least 50 yards so's you don't damage the targets?
I had a 30-30 for a while but it really hurt my fingers while trying to cycle it fast.
I got it for small game and varmits around the Almond Ranch though I never got to use it for even Ground Squirrels. The little buggers were better dispatched with a air rifle or .22 cause you could get within 20 yards. Why waste a 30-30 cartrige on that?
I sure like the lever guns though! Maybe I should plan on getting a '92 in .45 caliber.
Thanks for all the answers you all have been a big help!
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