Kit ?

44 Dave · May 22, 2020, 08:53 PM

Got given a Griswold and Gunnison today.
The Question is kit or what by whom? The markings are few only Navy Arms on the top pf barrel, made in Italy with script G. U.(think it is a G) under over the wedge. There are no proof marks or date code.
Three digit serial number of 5--
The barrel has some pitting have not gotten inside, but the action and lock up are good.

AKexpat · May 23, 2020, 06:59 AM

G. U. is Gregorelli & Uberti. They were in business from about 1959-1962 when Aldo Uberti split off and formed his own company.

Regards,

Jim

ligonierbill · May 23, 2020, 09:33 AM

That time frame would correspond to the early Navy Arms of Val Forgett. The low serial number also; I have a Remington Rolling Block replica by Navy Arms/Pedersoli with 23XX serial number. It differs considerably from later Pedersoli replicas, parts not interchangeable. Just a guess.

AKexpat · May 23, 2020, 03:13 PM

In the book Civil War Guns (William B. Edwards, 1962), the author explains that Val Forgett (Navy Arms) also wanted a less expensive version of the 1851 Navy steel frame with engraved cylinder and octagon barrel for the U.S. market, so G.U. produced one with a brass frame, smooth/plain cylinder, and a part round/part octagon barrel, cheaper to produce, but did not market it as a G&G.

Both the Navy Arms 1851 Navy and the "G&G" did not have separate serial number ranges and were numbered sequentially as they came off the assembly line.

Many of the early G.U. guns did not have Italian proof marks nor date codes. I would not completely write this one off as a kit gun.

This is from a short piece written by Dennis Russell about the start of Navy Arms. I found it to be an interesting read.

Regards,

Jim

AKexpat · May 23, 2020, 03:47 PM

As an aside, I have a good friend on another BP forum who obtained a very early Navy Arms 1851 Navy G.U. .36 that had not been cared for very well (!) for a very good price, and decided to use it as a donor revolver to create a J.H. Dance And Brothers .36 revolver. Using a small drill press and hand tools, IMO he has done a remarkable job.

If you are interested, I will let him tell the story.

https://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/in...ic,3610.0.html

Regards,

Jim

44 Dave · May 23, 2020, 06:24 PM

Thank you AKexpat After getting inside and other observations, not likely a kit
Not sure when kits were offered. Did not know the early G.U. guns did not have date or proof markings.
The box contained a Navy Arms "Service Guarantee" a label ---New Model Navy Revolver model 'REB' serial No. 595
Also a reproduction of Colt's directions for loading pistols
All in an original 1959 looking wood grain cardboard box.

AKexpat · May 23, 2020, 08:20 PM

Dave,

That box with the REB marking is a true teller to me that it is not a kit gun. If I were you I would save the box and the revolver for sure and not shoot it. There are folks in replica collector circles that look for such things and the prices are fairly good. The "REB" indicator was because the early replicators really had no clue other than G&G and Schneider & Glassick produced brass frame copies of the 1851 Navy guns, were produced in the Confederacy, so as to the reference to REB.

If you want to sell it, let me know what you want for the whole package.

Email me:

[email protected]

Regards,

Jim

44 Dave · May 23, 2020, 08:59 PM

It was a gift from a friend, don't think I could just turn around and sell it, at least for a while. .

44 Dave · June 10, 2020, 09:44 PM

Finley a few pictures.

44 Dave · June 10, 2020, 09:47 PM

one more

May 22, 2020, 08:53 PM	#1
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Kit ? Got given a Griswold and Gunnison today. The Question is kit or what by whom? The markings are few only Navy Arms on the top pf barrel, made in Italy with script G. U.(think it is a G) under over the wedge. There are no proof marks or date code. Three digit serial number of 5-- The barrel has some pitting have not gotten inside, but the action and lock up are good.

May 23, 2020, 06:59 AM	#2
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	G. U. is Gregorelli & Uberti. They were in business from about 1959-1962 when Aldo Uberti split off and formed his own company. Regards, Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

May 23, 2020, 03:13 PM	#4
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	In the book Civil War Guns (William B. Edwards, 1962), the author explains that Val Forgett (Navy Arms) also wanted a less expensive version of the 1851 Navy steel frame with engraved cylinder and octagon barrel for the U.S. market, so G.U. produced one with a brass frame, smooth/plain cylinder, and a part round/part octagon barrel, cheaper to produce, but did not market it as a G&G. Both the Navy Arms 1851 Navy and the "G&G" did not have separate serial number ranges and were numbered sequentially as they came off the assembly line. Many of the early G.U. guns did not have Italian proof marks nor date codes. I would not completely write this one off as a kit gun. This is from a short piece written by Dennis Russell about the start of Navy Arms. I found it to be an interesting read. Regards, Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

May 23, 2020, 03:47 PM	#5
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	As an aside, I have a good friend on another BP forum who obtained a very early Navy Arms 1851 Navy G.U. .36 that had not been cared for very well (!) for a very good price, and decided to use it as a donor revolver to create a J.H. Dance And Brothers .36 revolver. Using a small drill press and hand tools, IMO he has done a remarkable job. If you are interested, I will let him tell the story. https://blackpowdersmoke.com/colt/in...ic,3610.0.html Regards, Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

May 23, 2020, 08:20 PM	#7
AKexpat Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2014 Location: SW WA State Posts: 490	Dave, That box with the REB marking is a true teller to me that it is not a kit gun. If I were you I would save the box and the revolver for sure and not shoot it. There are folks in replica collector circles that look for such things and the prices are fairly good. The "REB" indicator was because the early replicators really had no clue other than G&G and Schneider & Glassick produced brass frame copies of the 1851 Navy guns, were produced in the Confederacy, so as to the reference to REB. If you want to sell it, let me know what you want for the whole package. Email me: [email protected] Regards, Jim __________________ To be governed – is to be watched, inspected, directed, indoctrinated, numbered, estimated, regulated, commanded, controlled, law-driven, preached at, spied upon, censured, checked, valued, enrolled – by creatures who have neither the right, nor the wisdom, nor the virtue to do so. - Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

May 23, 2020, 09:33 AM	#3
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	That time frame would correspond to the early Navy Arms of Val Forgett. The low serial number also; I have a Remington Rolling Block replica by Navy Arms/Pedersoli with 23XX serial number. It differs considerably from later Pedersoli replicas, parts not interchangeable. Just a guess.

May 23, 2020, 06:24 PM	#6
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	Thank you AKexpat After getting inside and other observations, not likely a kit Not sure when kits were offered. Did not know the early G.U. guns did not have date or proof markings. The box contained a Navy Arms "Service Guarantee" a label ---New Model Navy Revolver model 'REB' serial No. 595 Also a reproduction of Colt's directions for loading pistols All in an original 1959 looking wood grain cardboard box.

May 23, 2020, 08:59 PM	#8
44 Dave Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2013 Posts: 584	It was a gift from a friend, don't think I could just turn around and sell it, at least for a while. .

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