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Old March 19, 2020, 11:04 PM   #1
MarkCO
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Who Drives?

It is a foregone conclusion that the few times we venture out in the next month, the full med kit and at least one long gun are going with. But who drives? My wife is a decent driver, but not aggressive. My wife is a decent shooter, but not at my skill level. I have two boys (16 and 18) that can drive, and shoot at a high level, but I don't feel either primary position is appropriate for me to put them in when both parents are capable.

Yeah, I am sure it is a preponderance of caution and nothing will happen so hopefully just an academic discussion...but I am curious what you all think. If riot/mob/carjack attempt occurs when you are out, would you rather be driving or riding "shotgun". The why to your answer would be interesting to hear.
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Old March 20, 2020, 12:22 AM   #2
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I am the better driver.
In the driver's seat, my best weapon is the vehicle.
Therefore, I drive.
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Old March 20, 2020, 04:50 AM   #3
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I am the driver just now, totally, my wife twisted her ankle at a wedding last Saturday.
Topping up our medications means we have 2 months of medications, plus we have lots of food that can be microwaved, and no cooking. Meaning my wife does not have to be on her feet too much. Me doing all the dishes as well.
Not really a big concern, but a thought, our City police, and Sheriff's depts are working as normal. But history has proved, in times of stress (This pandemic!) criminals take from the citizens who were well-stocked, food being the main item!
My Glock 19 is my constant companion, in the home, and when I venture out. I keep the Jeep topped up. My mindset is cautious, not panicky, but just cautious.
And the Glock 19 4th Gen with TruGlo night sights, a spare G17 magazine, feels kind of comforting.
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Old March 20, 2020, 07:03 AM   #4
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Plus one Brit...same here. Rod
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Old March 20, 2020, 08:35 AM   #5
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Its not the apocolypse.. I say you settle this invented conundrum by simply asking "who's car is it"? If its your car.. you drive and if its someone else's car.. they drive. In my estimation, this is a way overintellectualized issue to sort out.



BUT:

If you really want to go down that rabbit hole, I would suggest that anyone considered to be the primary "defender" is not the person driving. Driving and fighting can occur simultaneously, you cant do much defending from the drivers seat.

When constructing a crisis mitigation plan, I always suggest that people readily acknowledge that everyone has a job. You, your wife, your teenage kids.. everyone. If you are the primary defender, I think you should be sitting shotgun. Its as simple as that.

There are reasons why the coach driver is not the one with the shotgun.
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Old March 20, 2020, 10:14 AM   #6
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200 people in the USA die from complications of the Covid-19 virus, everyone looses their mind. 500,000 people in the USA die a year from heart disease and we put fried chicken between two glazed doughnuts. The human race deserves it's coming extinction.
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:03 AM   #7
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FireForged, first, I agree, not the apocalypse and second, I did say that I hope that this was an academic discussion in the OP.

Anyhow, thanks for your edit. That is the way I was thinking, but to be honest, it is one area I had never really seen discussed in the various media and had never really considered myself. Mental exercises on outlier topics help to define and tune response to more everyday situations.

Mike38, you posted on the wrong thread, even if I agree with your opinion.
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:06 AM   #8
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200 people in the USA die from complications of the Covid-19 virus, everyone looses their mind. 500,000 people in the USA die a year from heart disease and we put fried chicken between two glazed doughnuts.
While i agree that Human priorities are messed up, Mark asks a good tactical question.

While working as a Govt contractor in a number of sketchy locations around the globe, the actions on contact plan was simple....DRIVE out, if at all possible. Drivers, drive...shooters shoot. If the vehicle becomes inoperative and we have to exfil on foot..everyone is a shooter.

In todays crisis, i am behind the wheel. The Misses just doesnt have the technical driving skills or training that i do. Nor the mindset to use the vehicle as a weapon, should that become necessary.

The best weapon you can use when in a vehicle is the skinny pedal on the right. DRIVE OUT!!
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:17 AM   #9
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So Sharkbite, if one knows they are going to have to cross a "hot" zone, can you compare and contrast the "higher" skilled person in terms of driving, as you say in your post, or shooting, as FireForged said in his post.

Anytime I go "out" I am not assuming I "will" get attacked, but that it is a remote possibility and therefore, from your post, I would be best in the driver's seat all times. That is our norm, but I wanted to get some input and make sure I was not just being a control freak about it. My wife prefers me to drive, her Truck, my truck, my car, no matter what.

Thanks for the insight.
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:25 AM   #10
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The best driver should drive because that's the best chance of getting out of trouble. That being said, what constitutes good driving under normal conditions isn't the same thing as driving under the conditions the OP outlined. It takes very little to disable most vehicles nowadays and unless you know what your doing you'll probably get stuck pretty quick.
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:35 AM   #11
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200 people in the USA die from complications of the Covid-19 virus, everyone looses their mind. 500,000 people in the USA die a year from heart disease and we put fried chicken between two glazed doughnuts. The human race deserves it's coming extinction.
+1,000,000

I think that's the problem, however. Folks are not thinking logically and are self-generating an economic and societal crisis. The bad thing is when it indeed becomes reality, there is little one can do except for planning for the worst, whether it's 100 rolls of toilet paper, 30,000 rounds of ammo, or booby trapping the front & back of the house.

Whoever is the better driver should drive. If you happen to be both, still drive because the point is to get the hell out of the bad situation.
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Old March 20, 2020, 11:42 AM   #12
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Mark.

I think its a simple matter of what is more important while the vehicle is mobile. I vote for driving.

If we come across a road block, say burning dumpsters or cars, id rather i am behind the wheel. Driving skill at that point is more important then shooting skill. Only AFTER our vehicle can no longer move, does shooting skill come into play. I have, in training and in the real world crashed thru barricades, including vehicles...she has not. I know how to hit a car and push through while minimizing damage to my vehicle..she does not.

I think it is more likely that I can avoid/minimize damage to my vehicle then she can. Solely based on my training and experience, not because im Male. Not a sexist thing. A training and experience thing.

Think of it this way. If she crashes into something that hard stops your vehicle, then everybody is on foot. A less desirable situation then if the vehicle stays mobile.

The analogy to a stage coach is flawed. Horse teams dont have the maneuverability of a car, or the ability to ram thru barriers. What if you come across a large mob of people blocking the street? Does she have the skill to reverse out quickly? J turn? Jump a curb without blowing a tire?

Prioritize needs and put the best person for the job in the most critical seat. Based on almost a decade of workjng high threat assignments in Iraq, A-stan, South and Central America. The DRIVER is the most critical position as long as the vehicle is mobile. Once the vehicle cant move anymore, we all become dis-mounted infantry and i’ll fall back on my Marine Corps days :-)

Last edited by Sharkbite; March 20, 2020 at 12:42 PM.
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Old March 20, 2020, 12:06 PM   #13
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Thanks Sharkbite.

For other readers, a good book to peruse might be "Drive to Survive" by Curt Rich. I read it many years ago and I gave it to several 16 year olds. Not a replacement for a high performance driving class, but a good primer on the subject.
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Old March 20, 2020, 12:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
But who drives?
I'd say that temperament is more relevant than skill. If my wife were stopped on the road by a threatening mob, she would probably ask them what's wrong and offer to talk them into a better place. Most people have never used a car defensively. It's costly and unnatural. She would be grossly ill-suited to sacrificing a vehicle to get out of a situation. I tried to get her to carry when we lived in a place that merited that and friends had had problems, and she let me know that even if I made her carry, she would never shoot a person.

In your hypothetical, my wife stays home.

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Old March 20, 2020, 03:08 PM   #15
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200 people in the USA die from complications of the Covid-19 virus, everyone looses their mind. 500,000 people in the USA die a year from heart disease and we put fried chicken between two glazed doughnuts.
Fired chicken and glazed doughnuts never killed anyone in a few weeks. Heart disease is not a person to person contagion. The mitigation efforts to reduce heart disease is not likely to shut down a city or disrupt services. The mitigation efforts regarding heart disease is not likely to cause the sort of stress that can lead to panic or chaos. Heart disease by comparison is something which often manifests over decades, not weeks.

It should be fairly obvious why people are more concerned about the potential problems caused by a wide spread contagion.
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Old March 20, 2020, 03:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
The analogy to a stage coach is flawed. Horse teams dont have the maneuverability of a car, or the ability to ram thru barriers. What if you come across a large mob of people blocking the street? Does she have the skill to reverse out quickly? J turn? Jump a curb without blowing a tire?
Brother.. the difference in driving skills between your Wife and Jeff Gordon is probably not going to be what saves you in a urban setting while trying to navigate some sort of human induced chaos. It aint rocket science and 90% of what is being discussed in this thread is some sort of mad max fantasy.. not practical reality. NOBODY is going to initiating tactical J turns LOL. Come on people.

If were are to delve into the fantastical:

The whole point of my stage coach analogy was to highlight the fact that you cant readily fight with a weapon and drive at the same time, that's all. It wasn't about horses and maneuverability differences between a stage coach and a modern car. You obviously missed the point. Its not difficult to understand the basic concept of riding shotgun.

You guys can do what you want. If I get into a jam, we will take my Wife's SUV. She will drive and I will ride shotgun. Honestly, its not even a tactical decision.. it simply her car and she drives it every day. It aint all that deep and it probably isn't going to matter one hill of beans. There are much more important things to hash out which have nothing to do with who is driving the dang car.
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Old March 20, 2020, 07:58 PM   #17
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The OP stated it was a “Academic question”. So lets discuss it. Might not be this crisis and it may NEVER get that bad, but it doesnt hurt to share ideas and experience.
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Old March 20, 2020, 08:23 PM   #18
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FWIW, our drive today was uneventful with sparse traffic. The mood among others was rather tense, or somber. People were whispering and the 6 foot bubble was generally being adhered to. Post Office, Costco, UPS store.
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Old March 20, 2020, 10:55 PM   #19
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I had to drive to our local Publix, and Trader Joes. Got what I needed, returned home. Backed into our garage, parked. Toilet visit (After big hand wash, used bathroom, other big hand wash) unloaded groceries, still indoors, off to sleep. almost midnight.
Had a great Chille, more for two more meals left. For us two. Life is good. Where I live, lots of hesitant Ladys driving Mercedes/Lexus/etc. Very expensive cars, very hesitant Lady drivers. Five minutes to enter their car, start the engine put seat belt on, they never back into a spot! I can not imagine one of these nice ladies running over two young thugs standing in their way! I could.
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Old March 21, 2020, 08:57 AM   #20
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I had to drive to our local Publix, and Trader Joes. Got what I needed, returned home. Backed into our garage, parked. Toilet visit (After big hand wash, used bathroom, other big hand wash) unloaded groceries, still indoors, off to sleep. almost midnight.
how many tactical J-turns did you initiate and how many curbs did you jump?
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Old March 21, 2020, 10:06 AM   #21
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F-F not one! But back in the 60s, I took an advanced driving test, purpose? To lower your cost of insurance. Part of this was exceeding the speed limit on a really good road, called the East Lancs. Ran between Liverpool in Lancashire, to Manchester.
No traffic lights, Roundabouts (Called Traffic Circles!) in the USA. That Americans have trouble with.

Simple rule "IF THERE IS A VEHICLE ON THE ROUNDABOUT, THEY HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY! PERIOD." It gets complicated when it is really busy.

We have visited Ireland twice, rented a car when we flew into Dublin once, and against the instructions of the rental company in the UK, went over on the ferry from Hollyhead in Wales the other time. Had great fun both times.
At the first time, they had a Foot and Mouth scare, so walking to enter your car, there is a pan with disinfectant you walk through when you drive onto the dock, you drive through a disinfectant bath to clean the tires.

A Police Officer stops you and asks a few questions. Do you have other shoes in the Boot (Trunk) I asked him what size he wore? He said 11. I said you can not look, I have a pair of Rocky tactical boots in there.
"I won't take your boots," he said. Then he got the joke, I let him dunk the soles of the boots in the disinfectant. "They are nice boots!" he said.

Coming back, to board the Ferry, you are funnelled into a narrow lane, to have you stop at a booth, where you are questioned by a young Lady Cop.

The sign stated SLOW INSPECTION AHEAD I asked the young Lady why she was slow? She said she wasn't slow! I asked her why she was slow.
She said she wasn't slow. I said the sign said she was! She broke up!
She asked my wife if I was always like this. My wife said always.
The words of advice "On your bike" and pointed ahead. I waved and proceeded, and no problems.

The draft Guinness went down well! Stick shift car, diesel fuel. cheap. Stayed at bed and breakfast places. Two weeks (A fortnight) best food, Pub Food.
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Old March 21, 2020, 11:15 AM   #22
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Fireforged

Read post #1 & 17, try to comprehend what is being asked and answered.

Maybe look up the definition of “Academic question” so as to allow an intelligent discussion of TACTICS.
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Old March 21, 2020, 11:36 AM   #23
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Having been in Los Angeles for the “Rodney King riots”. I remember seeing a few examples where “tactical driving” might have helped.

Reginald Denny was driving an 18 wheeler and could have driven out of the situation. Instead he stopped and was beaten almost to death in the middle of the street.

So, is it better to plan for the worst and hope for the best, or should we just stick our heads in the sand and count on the good nature of humans in crises events?
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Old March 21, 2020, 02:25 PM   #24
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While the opening post could be regarded as "firearms related" under the heading of "Tactics," the discussion went of the rails rather faster than expected. Once people resprt to insulting others rather than refuting statements with facts, it's time to call it a day.

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