Ok this just happened I need middle name now.

[Pert316]

I went over to Academy to buy a 1911 today. I picked out the one that I wanted and handed over my driver's license and concealed carry permit. Then I was informed that since both of these ID's only have my middle initial on it I would need another form of ID with my middle name on it. When did this happend? Apparently for about a month now. I was told credit card or SS card or passport. All my credit cards just have my middle initial on them. My passport is good to go but I don't carry it around with me or a SS card. Any one else have this happend or even know about this?

[JohnKSa]

How did you get government issued photo IDs without your middle name on them?

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by JohnKSa

How did you get government issued photo IDs without your middle name on them?

??? Pay your money and stand in front of the camera?

My driver's license has my middle initial, not my middle name. My state-issued building inspector ID card has my middle initial, not my middle name. I have carry permits/licenses from my home state and four others. The home state and three of the other four have my middle initial. One of the non-resident permits uses my middle name.

My Social Security card says on the face "Not to be used for identification."

[Pert316]

Exactly I have 6 forms of photo ID, TWIC , CCL , security passport all of which I had to take back ground checks for. No middle name, I didn't make the rules so IDK. It's apparently a new ATF thing. I have ask some friends and some have middle names on their DL and some don't. Oh and a passport and yes obviously it has a middle name on it.

[Aguila Blanca]

The BATFE web site still shows the October 2016 version of the 4473 as the current version. Question 1 calls for entering a middle name, if you have one. It is possible to have a middle initial that doesn't signify a name -- is such cases, the purchaser is to enter the initial followed by "IO" (Initial Only).

In the instructions to the FFL on identification, it says the following:

Question 18.a. Identification:
Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and age of the transferee/buyer. The transferee/buyer must provide a valid government-issued photo identification document to the transferor/seller that contains the transferee's/buyer's name, residence address, and date of birth. A driver's license or an identification card issued by a State in place of a license is acceptable. Social Security cards are not acceptable because no address, date of birth, or photograph is shown on the cards. A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. See instructions for question 18.b. Supplemental Documentation.

No mention that the ID furnished must indicate the full middle name. Perhaps one of the active FFLs on the forum can tell us if there has been a recent directive from the BATFE on this.

[Mal H]

That would mean Harry S. Truman wouldn't be able to purchase a handgun in your state!

(He had no middle name.)

[FrankenMauser]

Don't buy from Academy.
Problem solved.

[JohnKSa]

??? Pay your money and stand in front of the camera?

The application for DL or for a CHL in my state asks for a 'middle name', not a 'middle name or middle initial', or a 'middle initial'. I didn't realize that you could get away with filling in whatever you want as opposed to what the form asks for.

[Spats McGee]

Is it possible that this is a new Academy thing, and not a new BATFE thing?

[BarryLee]

I just renewed my DL in Georgia and it is now a much more involved process requiring birth certificates, social security card, proof of residency, etc. They said the new DL is considered a Secure ID and it includes the person's full legal name.

[Mal H]

BarryLee - that's the new "Real ID" form of a driver's license. It is not only a DL but also a valid form of government ID which will be required in two years to be presented if you fly anywhere (domestic or foreign, but you'll still need your PP).

However, most states will still issue the standard DL if you you don't think you'll ever need the Real ID. Maybe GA isn't one of those states.

[cjwils]

My official middle name is one letter with no period. That has caused lots of problems, but when buying a gun, I have always gotten by with writing IO or Initial Only (as mentioned above), even though I don't know if a one letter name is the same as an initial.

[Pahoo]

I find this thread to be interesting and somewhat entertaining. Are you saying that a person can have a single letter as a middle name? I did not know that !!!!

Now then, my brother and I do not have a middle name of any kind. Mom always said that she could not afford one, back then
When filling out a form, I always list (NMN). Legally, I do have a suffix and not listing it has never caused a problem. …..

Be Safe !!!

[Aguila Blanca]

Looking at sample drivers licenses on several different states' web sites, it appears that a Real ID license uses the full middle name, whereas a non-Real ID license may use only the middle initial. My drivers license is not Real ID compliant. The last time I renewed, I didn't know about Real ID other than having heard a vague rumor that there was such a thing. I didn't have two other, Real ID compliant forms of ID with me, so I had to opt for a non-Real ID version of my drivers license. That may explain why I don't have the middle name listed.

This discussion reminds me that I have been meaning to get to a DMV office to replace my drivers license with the Real ID version.

[FunGramps]

Maybe it's best to apply in California. I hear you get carte blanche to purchase unlimited sanctuary guns with five or more middle names.

[zxcvbob]

That would mean Harry S. Truman wouldn't be able to purchase a handgun in your state!

Sure he could, his middle name was "S" (or "S.", not sure which)

[heyjoe]

i have a real id compliant drivers license issued in New York, which is an enhanced license and can be used to travel to canada, mexico, caribbean without a passport and it only has my middle initial. So apparently its not a federal requirement for a real Id to have your full middle name.

[JohnKSa]

BarryLee - that's the new "Real ID" form of a driver's license.

Makes sense. I looked it up and TX is a Real ID state.

Are you saying that a person can have a single letter as a middle name?

Or no middle name at all.

I know one person whose first name is two letters (that could easily be mistaken for initials) and who has no middle name.

[FrankenMauser]

Yea, I've known a few people with middle initials, but no name. "Q" seems to have caused the most trouble for the guys I've know in the initial-only crowd.
Though, "G" as a full last name caused a lot of trouble for a guy I knew in the military.

...And people with too many odd initials and too many names to get along with our 'standardized' society.
I had a very good friend in high school whose legal name was initial-only, initial-only, three more middle names, and a last name, with a suffix.
Non-identifying representation: S H Barry Sean Alton Masse, III.

(Who names their kid that? And then keeps it up for two more generations?! Think of the forms!)

Originally Posted by heyjoe

So apparently its not a federal requirement for a real Id to have your full middle name.

It is a requirement, but some mistakes (or omissions) may slip through the cracks.

[Aguila Blanca]

But the deadline for Real ID was extended to 2020 (January?), which means that a drivers license with a middle initial should still be accepted as of today.

[JohnKSa]

As I understand it, when a state makes the claim that their DL meets the REAL ID requirement, it must actually meet those requirements.

Obviously not all states meet the requirements at this time and have some time to make the changes, but some states claim that they are already compliant. NY is one, TX is another and I'm sure there are others.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Perhaps one of the active FFLs on the forum can tell us if there has been a recent directive from the BATFE on this.

Since 2012 I've worked at three different FFLs in two different states, and I'm not aware of any ATF directive on this. This issue appears to depend on which ATF IOI is dealing with the FFL.

This became an issue at the second FFL I worked at in WA. I'd been working there for about a year, and -- just like at my previous FFL -- we never required a customer to have their full middle name on their license. In WA (and in many other states) the DMV often just puts the middle initial on the drivers license, and this was enough to verify the buyer's identity.

But then we received an email out if the blue from our ATF contact that said we now had to require the customer to write on the 4473 the exact middle name that appeared on their drivers license. So that meant if the customer only had their middle initial on their DL our ATF IOI wanted us to instruct the customer to put just that initial as their middle name on the 4473 and follow it with "IO" (for "initial only") indicating they only had a middle initial for their legal middle name, even if that wasn't the case. That didn't make much sense to use, but since our ATF guy told us to do it that way, that's how we started to do it.

Then a few months later he sent us a follow-up email. Now he said that if the customer had a full middle name but only had their middle initial on their DL, then that wasn't sufficient info to sell them a firearm. In that case the customer would also have to supply a second government-issued document that had their full middle name on it. The funny thing is that our second store location never got these instructions at all (each location is a separate FFL and treated separately by the ATF). So our other store was still able to sell guns to customers using a DL that only had their middle initial on it.

And now that I work at an FFL in PA, there's nothing about requiring customers have documentation of their full middle name; PA drivers licenses also often abbreviate the middle name and it's not an issue at all. At least not yet, maybe it's only a matter of time before the ATF makes us verify the customer's middle name.

[Theohazard]

Originally Posted by Mal H

That would mean Harry S. Truman wouldn't be able to purchase a handgun in your state!

(He had no middle name.)

I don't think that's the issue the OP is referring to. In the case where a buyer simply has an initial for their middle name, the ATF instructs them to write that initial on the 4473 and then put "IO" right after it for "initial only". That was never an issue in the experience I talk about in my previous post, and I don't think that's what the OP is talking about.

The issue the OP seems to be running into is that some ATF Industy Ops inspectors appear to be telling FFLs that if their drivers license says their middle name is just an initial but that's not actually the case, then the buyer needs to provide supplemental documentation that shows their full legal name. But like I said in my previous post, this doesn't seem to be consistent and it appears to depend on which ATF Industry Ops person the FFL is dealing with.

I can tell you this: In my experience the things the ATF tells FFLs to do often vary wildly. Some of the things we were told to do at my first FFL were different from what we were told to do at my second FFL, even though the two shops were in the same city. And some of the things we were told to do (or were never told not to do) at my two FFLs in WA were different from here in PA, even though I'm only referring to federal issues, not state ones.

[vito]

Not a problem for me; I have no middle name. Neither does my brother, but my sister does have one. Not sure why my parents made that decision, but I find life easier without the hassle of having a middle name at all. I do have to fill in "NMI" (no middle initial) on some forms where they insist on having a middle initial listed.

[Spats McGee]

I have a middle name. I actually go by my middle name. Given a choice, I fill out forms with first initial, middle name, and last name. Surprisingly few forms are formatted in such a way that I can do so. I sign almost everything with first two initials and last name. Fortunately, it has never caused me any difficulty in buying a firearm. Unfortunately, my life is an unending stream of people calling me by the wrong name.