Utility rifles

[AC]

Let me propose a scenario and get opinions from the board members on what they would use.

After giving Cooper's scout concept much thought and playing with the concept myself on several rifles, I don't think he has the answer for an all-around rifle. We need to define a scenario. No military man would want anything but a semi or full auto, except maybe a sniper and his spotter would have an automatic. Since Cooper does envision a military role, he needs to at least have stripper clip loading available, something the Steyr Scout did away with. It also seems to me that any scope we have, with the possible exception of that on the Steyr Aug is overly fragile. It is also prone to having dust, mud and water get on the lenses.

For a hunting rifle the scope is a huge advantage.

Lets say you are headed into remote back country for a month. You will walk in with one or two pack mules. There are no big game seasons available during this month. You don't anticipate fighting bandits as it is a peaceful and remote area, but who knows. Likely the rifle will provide peace of mind, maybe a few varmints, maybe a little practice, and probably a couple of dinners, but you are packing in plenty of food. There is no dangerous big game in the area. It will be very rough going out there and you can't coddle your equipment. What do you take and why?

You don't need a hunting rifle, you need a utility rifle.

[Allen_Raiford]

The Winchester M1894 has been used in thet role for more than a century.

[Mike Baugh]

I would pick a Marlin 30-30 levergun with iron sights . The gun is reliable , light ,compact and rugged . It has a 6 round tube capacity which can be topped off quickly , this should handle the self protection role nicely , there is no removable mag to loose or get damaged and the caliber is large enough for any thing/body you should run across . There is no optic sight to worry about getting damaged/fogged/or mud covered at the wrong time . The design is simple and you wont be loosing pins/keys/rings as with an autoloader . If you are in a remote area for any extended time you should plan for the worst so I would keep the possibilty of bandits and dangerous game in the back of my mind , a dog can be dangerous game if you are a long way from a doctor and get bitten . Good luck , Mike...

[BMWGS80]

I pack my Marlin 1894"Cowboy" lever action. 20" full octagonal Bbl. with rear peep sight.
Ruger Blackhawk both .41 Magnum. Same concept as in days gone by, just better caliber. If you are packing in with animals it would be good to add a .12G shotgun. My choice would be my Savage 311 dbl. chocked MOD/IMPCYL.

This cocept worked for the pioneers and cowboys. It is still valid today.

Cheers,

ts

[Clead]

I would take my sporterized No4Mk1 Enfield. Rock-solid reliable, durable military design made to withstand abuse. I was actually thinking about building a "scout" rifle out of one of these actions: barrel trim to 19", flash supressor, synthetic stock, no-smith quick-detach scope mount (the micrometer iron sights on these rifles are great) for LONG range stuff.
Clead

[dog3]

I would take my
M1A,

Why?

Because I always take my M1A, always have
always will. I'm just lazy. I'm used to it,
it's used to me, and we just kinda get along
okay. No imaginiation I guess.

I gave my nylon-66 away a few years back,
wish I hadn't. I have a little clip-fed
Marlin .22 that shoots pretty straight too,
That would be my second choice.

[Jaeger]

I'd take my Enfield Scout. I built my scout off of the Enfield action because I liked the idea of having a scout rifle built off of the best bolt action battle rifle ever made. Like Clead said, it is toughas nails and ca take serious punishment. The scope can pop right off the Ashley mount in case it gets damaged and the iron sights are very good. In case of a running gun battle with a band of marauding brigands in the wilderness I have 10 round magazines at my disposal that are quickly filled with stripper clips.
My 94 30/30 would be my next choice.
If your scenario allows for it I would also pack my Springfield Armory M6 scout for small game, plinking, etc.

[dZ]

i think part of the Cooper utility concept is a rifle that will be allowed into hunt alot of African countries and not be seen as a military weapon.

A co-pilot would be a cool backcountry rig. http://www.wildwestguns.com/CoPilot/copilot.html

If i had to pick one from my current inventory, i guess the .308 Vepr would survive the bush and keep on shooting well.

[Correia]

Of my guns that I currently own I would probably take my BM dissipator. Since there isn't any dangerous game around, .223 should work fine. It is usually reliable (except for that one time for those of you who remember). It is pretty light, and I can hit what I aim at.

I know that this is a rifle forum, but I would also pack along my .22 buckmark, and my 1911.

------------------
Order your TFL shirts and hats now! www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=37865

[jnix]

I would say the ruger mini-14 as a utility rifle. It is very light and incredibly rugged.

[Shin-Tao]

Ditto that.

I'd take my stainless Mini and my six mags.

[Erik]

"A general purpose rifle is a conveniently portable, individually operated firearm, capable of striking a single decisive blow, on a live target of up to 200 kilos in weight, at any distance at which the operator can shoot with the precision necessary to place a shot in a vital area of the target."

-- Jeff Cooper, To Ride, Shoot Straight, and Speak the Truth.

A must visit site, if you want to know about Scout Rifles:
http://pw2.netcom.com/~chingesh/scoutrifle.html

[Erik]

From here: http://207.181.246.106/johns/project.htm

A Few Words on the Scout Rifle Concept

Since one must take care with one's speech it is appropriate that we address the issue of just what a "scout Rifle" really is.

By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria:

Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds ).

Length: 1 meter (39 inches)

Barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)

Sighting system: Forward mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary.

Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.

Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.

Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm) or 7 mm - 08 Winchester (7 x 51 mm), with .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.

Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.

Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).

Rifles that do not meet all of these specifications are technically not "scout rifles." Thus rifles of this general design in calibers other than those stated above are not true scout rifles but actually "pseudo-scouts." However, even though Steyr Mannlicher (and now Savage) are making production rifles of this general type (as well as some wild variations) they are under no legal obligation not to call their deviations "scouts" as a marketing tool. Thus the Steyr .376 Scout also know as (and probably better referred to as the ".376 Dragoon" although Jeff dislikes the term) nor the forthcoming .223 variation are true scout rifles. For that matter neither are the custom made scout-like rifles made up in .30-06, .375 H&H, or what ever caliber. However, there are many parts of the scout design that can be handily used on non-scout rifles.

[WinMag]

One thing I didnt see mentioned above is stainless vs. blued. If I were going to take a long trip into the bush, I would definately take a stainless weapon with a synthetic stock. I cant bear the thought of damaging my wood or rust accumilating under my barrel and forgrip.

But thats just me

[DeBee]

Regarding the Utility Rifle concept and acknowledging that it may be a distinct design from the Scout Rifle concept with an acceptable overlap of features, I have made a move back to basics.

A very simple rifle built up on a large ring Mauser action. A rifle made of milled steel. Easy to strip and clean. Caliber .308. A short stout barrel about 20". A basic synthetic or wooden stock well sealed against the elements. A sturdy buttplate. Damned near indestructable peep sights and a post front. And guess what? I'd probably opt for not having a scope. It's the weak link in the chain. Adds weight and cost and is most suseptable to damage. Although I love stainless as a rifle building material, to my knowledge, there aren't any stainless Mausers. Therefore, I'd employ a good heavy parkerizing.

[Glamdring]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AC:
After giving Cooper's scout concept much thought and playing with the concept myself on several rifles, I don't think he has the answer for an all-around rifle.
For a hunting rifle the scope is a huge advantage.
Likely the rifle will provide peace of mind, maybe a few varmints, maybe a little practice, and probably a couple of dinners, but you are packing in plenty of food. There is no dangerous big game in the area. It will be very rough going out there and you can't coddle your equipment. What do you take and why? [/quote]
Well I agree the Scout rifle is not the end all of rifle...I like my Stery Scout but i think a semi, single, or lever probably works better for utility if your going to carry it a lot...that darn bolt is annoying when the rifle is slung.

I think a single shot pistol [ie TC Contender] might actually be better choice for what your describing. Or if you want to stick to a rifle a Contender or Encore Rifle in a nice mild caliber 338 whisper perhaps?

Or a Savage 99 in 250 Ackley would be nice also.

[Nestor Rivera]

Of the Rifles I have in no particilur order
would be

Sweede M-38

Spanish 7x57 Cav. Carbine

SKS

Soviet M-44 carbine