|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
October 6, 2008, 02:06 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stuart, VA
Posts: 2,473
|
A C&R question that's messin' with my head.
So, say I have my C&R license. I know that all C&R eligible guns that I buy need to be added to my A&D book right away (even if i didn't use my license to buy it). Here's the puzzling scenario:
I have a C&R license. I buy a gun that is not classified as C&R. The gun becomes C&R a couple years after I buy it. Do I now need to add it to my A&D book? I bought it after I was given my license and it is now C&R eligible... I know it would be best to add it to the book, but would I have to? |
October 6, 2008, 02:19 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 18, 1999
Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California
Posts: 4,261
|
What ATF told me is only those that I buy with my C&R license.
__________________
Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation. Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society. |
October 6, 2008, 02:40 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: November 29, 2006
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 515
|
Its when the transaction occurs that matters. If it turns C&R later thats not a transaction. If you sell it after it becomes C&R, then you have to record it.
|
October 6, 2008, 02:44 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: Shawnee, KS
Posts: 1,093
|
No. Only those items that you buy with the license need to be recorded in the book. If you already had a large collection of C&R firearms these would not be listed in the book. However, if you use your license to sell a firearm that you owned before getting your license the sale would have to put it in your book. The book should show all C&R firearms you buy and sell when you have your license which is not necessarily all that you own.
|
October 6, 2008, 03:06 PM | #5 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
|
(shaking head)
It isn't those bought WITH the license, it is those purchased or disposed WHILE THE LICENSE IS ACTIVE. That is the result of an email from the ATF. The bound book is a record of the activity in curio & relic firearms while the license is active. Whether obtained in interstate commerce (the purpose for the license) or locally (license not necessary), if the license is in effect, the transaction should be logged. I found the email. First, here is what I asked, just in case anybody wonders how I phrased it: Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by Technosavant; October 6, 2008 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Found the email |
||
October 6, 2008, 03:11 PM | #6 |
Junior member
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
|
the only way that you'd use your license to sell a C&R gun would be if you shipped it and had to show it to be eligible for a lower rate.
If you buy a C&R gun prior to getting your C&R it is considered a non collection gun and doesn't need to be logged. . |
October 6, 2008, 03:23 PM | #7 |
Junior member
Join Date: August 5, 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,982
|
E8) May a licensee who has firearms in his or her private collection sell any of these firearms without making firearms record entries? [Back]
A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered in the licensee’s bound book and then transferred to the licensee’s private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale. When the personal firearm is sold, the sale must be recorded in a "bound book" for dispositions of personal firearms, but no ATF Form 4473 is required. [27 CFR 478.125a] (D3) Does a dealer have to execute ATF Form 4473 to take a weapon out of the dealer’s inventory for his or her own use? [Back] No. However, the "bound book" must reflect the disposition of the firearm from business inventory to personal use. However, if the business is a corporation, and the firearm is being transferred to a corporate officer or director for other than business purposes, then a Form 4473 must be executed. [27 CFR 478.124 and 478.125a] (E8) May a licensee who has firearms in his or her private collection sell any of these firearms without making firearms record entries? [Back] A licensee may sell a firearm from his or her personal collection, subject only to the restrictions on firearm sales by unlicensed persons, provided the firearm was entered in the licensee’s bound book and then transferred to the licensee’s private collection at least 1 year prior to the sale. When the personal firearm is sold, the sale must be recorded in a "bound book" for dispositions of personal firearms, but no ATF Form 4473 is required. [27 CFR 478.125a] http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#f2 |
October 6, 2008, 03:52 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: St. Louis, MO area
Posts: 4,040
|
ISC, I wonder if that E8 item was intended for 01 FFLs, not 03 FFLs. While a 01 FFL may have "private collections" differentiated from the collection in the bound book, a 03 FFL does not- by definition, a 03 FFL has ONLY a private collection (since we cannot deal in firearms with this license), and thus that is what is in OUR bound books.
The ATF could be a lot more helpful if they would learn to appreciate plain language. |
October 6, 2008, 05:27 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 625
|
People, this is not hard, ANY C&R transactions made while you hold the license have to be recorded in your book.
Buy or otherwise acquire a C&R, record it. Sell or otherwise dispose of a C&R, regardless of how and when acquired, record it. Non C&R transaction, do not record it. It's simple, don't make this hard. |
October 6, 2008, 06:47 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stuart, VA
Posts: 2,473
|
HKuser - It sounds easy but the fact is that people modify their guns sometimes. If I have a gun that isn't C&R, and I modify it (drill and tap it for a scope, change sights, bend bolt, change stock, hammer, or anything), then it becomes C&R and I decide to sell it later, I'm not sure if I'd have to log it in my A&D book or not. Maybe I wouldn't since it would no longer qualify as C&R...??
|
October 6, 2008, 09:19 PM | #11 |
Senior Member
Join Date: January 24, 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 625
|
If it's over 50 years old or on the list, treat it as a C&R. Period. Not hard.
|
October 7, 2008, 07:16 AM | #12 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 5, 2008
Posts: 192
|
{"(D3) Does a dealer have to execute ATF Form 4473 to take a weapon out of the dealer’s inventory for his or her own use? [Back]
No. However, the "bound book" must reflect the disposition of the firearm from business inventory to personal use. However, if the business is a corporation, and the firearm is being transferred to a corporate officer or director for other than business purposes, then a Form 4473 must be executed. "} I don't think that's talking about a C&R federal license there. That's talking about someone with a gun dealers FFL transferring a weapon from store inventory to his personal collection. Since all firearms purchased with a C&R license are considered to be for personal use in a private collection there is no issue of changing the weapons status within the collection so long as it's still in your possession. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|