224 Valkyrie

TrueBlue711 · January 3, 2018, 10:58 AM

Does anybody have info regarding the future of this round? So far, I just know the basics: it's a new round by Federal that will essentially be the 6.5 Creed for the AR-15 platform (I'm sure bolt guns too, but the selling point is it'll fit in a standard AR lower), so far Federal is the only company producing the ammo and that there aren't many companies making barrels/BCG/uppers for it currently.

If any of this is wrong, please correct me. I'm curious to see if anybody follows ammo and/or gun companies and read that there are plans to start producing ammo/barrels/BCGs/etc. I'm shopping around now and I'm not seeing much available yet. Not for a good price at least.

Until I saw the video below, I didn't even know this round existed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff54rCQQq-I&t=1294s
I gotta say, I'm very interested in it after watching the video and may make it the next AR build for my empty lower.

Glock_17 · January 3, 2018, 11:30 AM

Only thing i have read or seen is pretty much all sponsored by Federal, like those vids with 22plinkster. Maybe it really is a round that finally manages to out perform a 5.56. Hard to tell when its beeing shot from a custom built range toy around the 6k mark.

bedlamite · January 3, 2018, 11:39 AM

There have been 6.8spc based wildcats around for a while and they definitely perform similar to the Valkyrie ads, but I would have preferred they make it a 6mm.

TrueBlue711 · January 3, 2018, 11:40 AM

Quote:

but i would wait and see how it perfoms in a setup that doesnt cost around the 6k mark

Very true, they do have a very expensive setup in the video. Even they mentioned towards the end of the video that they're curious to what the round will do in a standard AR with just a barrel and BCG replacement...which your average Joe will end up doing.

Glock_17 · January 3, 2018, 11:48 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71TrQZ6uxc
in this one they go a bit more in depth what that setup is made of.
You can be sure Federal has that thing honed to preform prefect with their new best thing since sliced bread

I dunno, its all just a big Federal commercials i have seen so far.

T. O'Heir · January 3, 2018, 12:58 PM

Yet another answer to an unasked question. The 224 Valkyrie is Federal's response to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's a necked down 6.8x43 SPC. Fires a 90 grain bullet at 2700 FPS out of a 24" barrel. The AE load is a 75 grain TMJ so you can pretend it's military. And a 60 grain Fusion.
This is a pretty good write up.
https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/224...ange-shooting/

jimbob86 · January 3, 2018, 02:19 PM

What is it for (aside from "to sell")?

Does that stated purpose serve a practical need or want?

Can it do so reliably, and continue to do so at a price point that would justify dropping that cash?

THAT is a REALLY tough row to hoe.

I don't see the few extra foot-pounds of energy or momentum or even a G1 over .500
.... gained over 5.56x45 as enough to buy a whole 'nother gun (ore ven just an upper) and associated consumables (dies, brass, magazines, etc ...): it's still just a .22 ......

I might get one of the CM's ....

TrueBlue711 · January 3, 2018, 03:11 PM

Quote:

What is it for (aside from "to sell")?

My guess is long range shooting (metal gong ringing) at 1000-1200 yards with little to no recoil, which is what I'm looking to get into now. Was going to go 6.5 Creed, but this answers my question on what to do with my empty AR lower sitting on the floor of my safe. As far as hunting, I would use it on the same things I would use a .223/5.56 on. But hunting wouldn't be the reason I would want this.

That being said, it is still early stages of its life, so I'll wait and see where it goes in the industry before pursuing the build.

50 shooter · January 3, 2018, 03:59 PM

Go over to www.maddogweapons.com and look around or jump over to their forums and see if they have some info on what you want or are looking for.

TrueBlue711 · January 3, 2018, 05:32 PM

Quote:

It's a necked down 6.8x43 SPC

So theoretically, a 6.8 SPC BCG will work for building this rifle?

dakota.potts · January 3, 2018, 07:28 PM

I actually got to chamber a couple of rifles in this round as part of an experiment before it was announced by Federal. Never got the chance to shoot it, but I know some people who have. They are getting good results at long range with next to no recoil and minimal wind drift.

I see it as essentially a "gaming" round that can pull double duty for a certain amount of hunting or defensive purposes. Flat shooting, low recoil, and hopefully to be backed with enough factory ammo support to make it worth while. If it continues to stick around and be supported, I would definitely look forward to using the round in the context of Precision Rifle Series Gas Gun or 3-Gun Long Range competitions, for instance.

But I think what will ultimately separate it from the many wildcat cartridges that achieve the same goal is the continued support of factory ammunition, components, and firearms. I believe they have done well with an initial launch of AR platform guns shooting the round, so the rest is a wait-and-see game unless you're willing to be an early adopter.

jimbob86 · January 3, 2018, 07:41 PM

Quote:

So theoretically, a 6.8 SPC BCG will work for building this rifle?

....

....and magazines, as well .....

..... but

... were I doing this (and I think 90+% of everybody else assembling AR pattern rifles out there) .... I'd think I'd want a BCG matched to the barrel already ....

Mobuck · January 3, 2018, 08:47 PM

How much diff between this and the 22 Nosler??

turtlehead · January 3, 2018, 08:49 PM

I want one in a bolt action for plinking steel at longer distances. And I won't have to chase my brass around.

ed308 · January 3, 2018, 08:51 PM

It is based on the 6.8 case but the shoulder is pushed back. Not sure how difficult it will be to convert 6.8 brass but neck turning may be involved. Federal is the only brass supplier currently. But since based off the 6.8 case, Hornady, Nosler and Starline will likely follow if the cartridge sells. A build will be like any 6.8 build except for the barrel. Lots of barrel manufacturers are already on board and coming out with barrels. But you likely won't see them until after Shot Show. But barrels are out there already. Recently read where PSA and Ballistic Advantage plan to offer barrels. To my eyes, this cartridge is getting a lot of interest. I like that is will be soft shooting, 90 gr bullets, available brass and gets close to 6.5 CM. One of the best places for information is the Face Book site: 224 Valkyrie.

Mobuck · January 3, 2018, 08:52 PM

"I want one in a bolt action for plinking steel at longer distances. And I won't have to chase my brass around."
A "fast twist" 22.250 will get the job done just as well.

bedlamite · January 3, 2018, 08:52 PM

22 nosler has two differences, it uses the 5.56 bolt and it's longer. The 5.56 bolt face is too small for reliable extraction with the bigger case. You can form 22 Nos from Hagar brass and use a 6.8 bolt, but the extra length means you are limited to 77 grain bullets max where the Val can use 90gr.

dakota.potts · January 3, 2018, 11:16 PM

I think a .224 Valkyrie is not going to appeal to the more "traditional" hunting rifle crowd. It will appeal to people that want a round that has the following traits:

*Very Low Recoil
*Fit in a "mini" action or AR-15 (we have yet to see the implications in a CZ 527 or Howa Mini size action)
*Compatibility with high-capacity magazines and modern semi-automatic rifles
*Long Range stability and Easy Use with heavy, high BC bullets
*Potential for low-cost plinking ammo support (at least in the same range as .300 BLK, 6.8 SPC, etc.)
*The allure of a "more lethal"/ "more effective" 5.56mm cartridge
*Builds on the appeal of the wildly successful 6.5 Creedmoor Cartridge
*Has a really cool name romanticizing feats of victory in battle

.22 Nosler does some of the above but as far as I know fails to meet the mark for widespread industry support and affordable supply cost. I also don't see any .22 Nosler ammo shooting the super heavy-for-caliber 90 grain bullets. .22-250 is geared towards much lighter bullets, especially in factory ammo configuration, and doesn't fit in an AR-15/AR-15 magazine.

Right now, Midway USA has .224 Valkyrie ammo available for as low as $11.29/20 and is also carrying the Federal Gold Medal Match 90 gr for $25/box.

turtlehead · January 3, 2018, 11:47 PM

Now I want the feats of victory.

FrankenMauser · January 4, 2018, 02:02 AM

Supersonic to 1,300 yards out of a ".22 caliber" AR is all it's got.
Everything else is matched, and/or greatly exceeded, by other cartridges.

You want it? Get it.

Me? I'll stick with my .243 Win(s)...

ed308 · January 4, 2018, 08:20 AM

But that .243 Win won't fit in the AR15 frame. I like the 6mm wildcats out there like Tac 6. But I hate forming brass. Got enough of that with my 270AR.

Mobuck · January 4, 2018, 08:25 AM

It's beginning to look like this round AND the 6.5 C are both working off of the premise of outperforming other similar cartridges based on stricter attention to detail in manufacture.
How many "other" rounds would have been stars if this much effort had gone into development and production? Many cartridges have been hampered by barrel makers simply refusing to produce twist rates allowing heavier than standard bullets.
Hop on the band wagon if you want but I'm not seeing the banners flying.

TrueBlue711 · January 4, 2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

How much diff between this and the 22 Nosler??

Another big difference is the BC. 22 Nosler has a BC of around .34 and the 224 has a BC around a .53 or .56...pretty big difference, which is why the 224 can shoot 1000+ yds better than any other round that fits in a standard AR.

For those who were looking to make a long range AR, such as myself, the 224 sounds like a game changer. We'll see how the industry and community accept the round. Judging how well the 6.5 Creed took off, I'd say this has a good chance of doing the same.

FrankenMauser · January 4, 2018, 04:12 PM

Quote:

But that .243 Win won't fit in the AR15 frame. I like the 6mm wildcats out there like Tac 6. But I hate forming brass. Got enough of that with my 270AR.

I don't need it to fit in an AR. I have bolt guns for that.

The whole "1,300 yard .22 caliber AR" is, to me, a concept that equates to home gyms. Tons of people like the idea, and think they'll make use of it; but said home gyms just gather dust while the purchaser continues to make their monthly payments ... until, one day, they sell it for a 90% loss at a yard sale with half of the accessories still factory-wrapped. It turns out that fantasy doesn't translate well into reality, and the tool is a one-trick-pony.

Mobuck · January 4, 2018, 10:12 PM

"Another big difference is the BC. 22 Nosler has a BC of around .34 and the 224 has a BC around a .53 or .56...pretty big difference, which is why the 224 can shoot 1000+ yds better than any other round that fits in a standard AR."
Actually, no this is NOT a difference between the cartridges themselves. It's a difference in the barrel twist and the bullet length which will be loaded.

January 3, 2018, 10:58 AM	#1
TrueBlue711 Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2011 Posts: 489	224 Valkyrie Does anybody have info regarding the future of this round? So far, I just know the basics: it's a new round by Federal that will essentially be the 6.5 Creed for the AR-15 platform (I'm sure bolt guns too, but the selling point is it'll fit in a standard AR lower), so far Federal is the only company producing the ammo and that there aren't many companies making barrels/BCG/uppers for it currently. If any of this is wrong, please correct me. I'm curious to see if anybody follows ammo and/or gun companies and read that there are plans to start producing ammo/barrels/BCGs/etc. I'm shopping around now and I'm not seeing much available yet. Not for a good price at least. Until I saw the video below, I didn't even know this round existed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff54rCQQq-I&t=1294s I gotta say, I'm very interested in it after watching the video and may make it the next AR build for my empty lower. Last edited by Spats McGee; January 3, 2018 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Removing request for moving thread

January 3, 2018, 11:30 AM	#2
Glock_17 Member Join Date: July 19, 2017 Posts: 33	Only thing i have read or seen is pretty much all sponsored by Federal, like those vids with 22plinkster. Maybe it really is a round that finally manages to out perform a 5.56. Hard to tell when its beeing shot from a custom built range toy around the 6k mark. Last edited by Glock_17; January 3, 2018 at 11:41 AM.

January 3, 2018, 11:39 AM	#3
bedlamite Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2000 Location: WI Posts: 1,395	There have been 6.8spc based wildcats around for a while and they definitely perform similar to the Valkyrie ads, but I would have preferred they make it a 6mm. __________________ A plan is just a list of things that doesn't happen.

January 3, 2018, 12:58 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Yet another answer to an unasked question. The 224 Valkyrie is Federal's response to the 6.5 Creedmoor. It's a necked down 6.8x43 SPC. Fires a 90 grain bullet at 2700 FPS out of a 24" barrel. The AE load is a 75 grain TMJ so you can pretend it's military. And a 60 grain Fusion. This is a pretty good write up. https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/224...ange-shooting/ __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

January 3, 2018, 03:59 PM	#9
50 shooter Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2002 Location: SoCal PRK Posts: 986	Go over to www.maddogweapons.com and look around or jump over to their forums and see if they have some info on what you want or are looking for. __________________ I see the world thru bloodshot eyes Streets filled with blood from distant lies The dogs of war never compromise, No time for rearranging.

January 3, 2018, 11:48 AM	#5
Glock_17 Member Join Date: July 19, 2017 Posts: 33	https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d71TrQZ6uxc in this one they go a bit more in depth what that setup is made of. You can be sure Federal has that thing honed to preform prefect with their new best thing since sliced bread I dunno, its all just a big Federal commercials i have seen so far.

January 3, 2018, 02:19 PM	#7
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	What is it for (aside from "to sell")? Does that stated purpose serve a practical need or want? Can it do so reliably, and continue to do so at a price point that would justify dropping that cash? THAT is a REALLY tough row to hoe. I don't see the few extra foot-pounds of energy or momentum or even a G1 over .500 .... gained over 5.56x45 as enough to buy a whole 'nother gun (ore ven just an upper) and associated consumables (dies, brass, magazines, etc ...): it's still just a .22 ...... I might get one of the CM's ....

January 3, 2018, 07:28 PM	#11
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I actually got to chamber a couple of rifles in this round as part of an experiment before it was announced by Federal. Never got the chance to shoot it, but I know some people who have. They are getting good results at long range with next to no recoil and minimal wind drift. I see it as essentially a "gaming" round that can pull double duty for a certain amount of hunting or defensive purposes. Flat shooting, low recoil, and hopefully to be backed with enough factory ammo support to make it worth while. If it continues to stick around and be supported, I would definitely look forward to using the round in the context of Precision Rifle Series Gas Gun or 3-Gun Long Range competitions, for instance. But I think what will ultimately separate it from the many wildcat cartridges that achieve the same goal is the continued support of factory ammunition, components, and firearms. I believe they have done well with an initial launch of AR platform guns shooting the round, so the rest is a wait-and-see game unless you're willing to be an early adopter. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

January 3, 2018, 08:47 PM	#13
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	How much diff between this and the 22 Nosler??

January 3, 2018, 08:49 PM	#14
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	I want one in a bolt action for plinking steel at longer distances. And I won't have to chase my brass around.

January 3, 2018, 08:51 PM	#15
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	It is based on the 6.8 case but the shoulder is pushed back. Not sure how difficult it will be to convert 6.8 brass but neck turning may be involved. Federal is the only brass supplier currently. But since based off the 6.8 case, Hornady, Nosler and Starline will likely follow if the cartridge sells. A build will be like any 6.8 build except for the barrel. Lots of barrel manufacturers are already on board and coming out with barrels. But you likely won't see them until after Shot Show. But barrels are out there already. Recently read where PSA and Ballistic Advantage plan to offer barrels. To my eyes, this cartridge is getting a lot of interest. I like that is will be soft shooting, 90 gr bullets, available brass and gets close to 6.5 CM. One of the best places for information is the Face Book site: 224 Valkyrie.

January 3, 2018, 08:52 PM	#16
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"I want one in a bolt action for plinking steel at longer distances. And I won't have to chase my brass around." A "fast twist" 22.250 will get the job done just as well.

January 3, 2018, 11:16 PM	#18
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I think a .224 Valkyrie is not going to appeal to the more "traditional" hunting rifle crowd. It will appeal to people that want a round that has the following traits: Very Low Recoil Fit in a "mini" action or AR-15 (we have yet to see the implications in a CZ 527 or Howa Mini size action) Compatibility with high-capacity magazines and modern semi-automatic rifles Long Range stability and Easy Use with heavy, high BC bullets Potential for low-cost plinking ammo support (at least in the same range as .300 BLK, 6.8 SPC, etc.) The allure of a "more lethal"/ "more effective" 5.56mm cartridge Builds on the appeal of the wildly successful 6.5 Creedmoor Cartridge Has a really cool name romanticizing feats of victory in battle .22 Nosler does some of the above but as far as I know fails to meet the mark for widespread industry support and affordable supply cost. I also don't see any .22 Nosler ammo shooting the super heavy-for-caliber 90 grain bullets. .22-250 is geared towards much lighter bullets, especially in factory ammo configuration, and doesn't fit in an AR-15/AR-15 magazine. Right now, Midway USA has .224 Valkyrie ammo available for as low as $11.29/20 and is also carrying the Federal Gold Medal Match 90 gr for $25/box. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

January 3, 2018, 11:47 PM	#19
turtlehead Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2015 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,203	Now I want the feats of victory.

January 4, 2018, 02:02 AM	#20
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	Supersonic to 1,300 yards out of a ".22 caliber" AR is all it's got. Everything else is matched, and/or greatly exceeded, by other cartridges. You want it? Get it. Me? I'll stick with my .243 Win(s)... __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

January 4, 2018, 08:20 AM	#21
ed308 Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2016 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 1,147	But that .243 Win won't fit in the AR15 frame. I like the 6mm wildcats out there like Tac 6. But I hate forming brass. Got enough of that with my 270AR.

January 4, 2018, 08:25 AM	#22
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	It's beginning to look like this round AND the 6.5 C are both working off of the premise of outperforming other similar cartridges based on stricter attention to detail in manufacture. How many "other" rounds would have been stars if this much effort had gone into development and production? Many cartridges have been hampered by barrel makers simply refusing to produce twist rates allowing heavier than standard bullets. Hop on the band wagon if you want but I'm not seeing the banners flying.

January 4, 2018, 10:12 PM	#25
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	"Another big difference is the BC. 22 Nosler has a BC of around .34 and the 224 has a BC around a .53 or .56...pretty big difference, which is why the 224 can shoot 1000+ yds better than any other round that fits in a standard AR." Actually, no this is NOT a difference between the cartridges themselves. It's a difference in the barrel twist and the bullet length which will be loaded.